Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

Eversong is highly outdated (1) and needs a major overhaul(2). The story there is still pre wrath and needs at least the cata treatment. Hell, it's the reason why you cant fly in tbc starting zones since the draenie islands are both fully capable to support flying (3) but since eversong and ghostlands aren't it wouldn't be fair.

(1) Yes, but so are the other starting zones that are stuck on Cataclysm story.
(2) Yes, and no. Yes, it needs to be redone if Blizzard were to allow flying, but no, it doesn't have to be a scrap-everything-and-make-everything-from-scratch kind of overhaul, like you are suggesting.
(3) Are they? I mean, I don't think I ever flew over those areas in any way, shape or form, so how do you know there aren't invisible walls around?

Yes, it's a rehash but if anything padaren are a rehash of thalassian elves lore-wise since both factions had their own pure, pale skin, blonde thalssian elves before horde/alliance added pandas to their ranks.

The pandaren are not a re-hash of the thalassian elves' lore.

Might as well do it again if they wanna make them playable instead of making them an AR and add even more content around it to milk it as much as possible.

Except your idea is, again, in my opinion, the worst possible one. The "shared starting experience and later choose your allegiance" is something that Blizzard is apparently not really happy with, so... why would they do it again? Especially when there are much easier, simpler and lore-friendly ways to do this?

You telling me you wouldn't like to fly in those zones (1), make an orc or human demon hunter (2), or have a brandnew battleground built around silvermoon (3), give horde a new core race that yields and ally AR (4),to name a few?

No?

(1) Don't really care as I almost never go to those areas once my BE/dranei is past level 20;
(2) No, since it breaks the established lore of the demon hunter class;
(3) I don't PvP, but even if I did: the answer is still 'no'. To make Silvermoon a PvP battleground it means the city would have to be unusable by the players. See: Gilneas;
(4) What?

[FlubberPuddy]

How is it silly????

How in the world is adding extra content for all players silly?

Im using your desire for helves and spinning it in a way that's good for everyone and you guys still reject it.

This is why you get condescending responses from blizz devs like Ion. You guys are completely selfish and only want your warcraft two elves and nothing else.

No void elves, no helf originating velves, no helfy options for velves, no Neutral elves.

Just some helf who's been hiding in a cave for years since the fall of SW and now decides to be adventurer for the alliance after his ps4 died.

Re-read.

If the goal is to implement an additional AR, which is the entire premise of this thread. Then yes, your proposal is so much unnecessary work that doesn't achieve the most simple way to reach that goal aka just implementing the AR themselves.

As I say here, you're going about the most roundabout complicated way possible. When there's visible proof as I provided with the Dark Iron Dwarf and Bronzebeard Dwarf example, that the simplest way that saves work on Blizzard is just implementing High Elves.

It's not about "keep all this extra content out for all players" you're being hella silly creating a scenario that doesn't work for any other AR nor has Blizzard tried to even show this is what they want AR to do, and act like just because we don't like it that it = trying to keep content out.

Us saying we're not fond of the idea =/= Blizzard doesn't have plans to update Silvermoon and such anyway. Do you know for a fact it has to be tied to implementing High Elves in order for it work?

Stop suggesting clearly inane situations as if it's practical. Has Blizzard done this with other AR? Did other AR allow huge overhauls to old zones that affects all players? Stop putting High Elves on some crazy pedestal.

[Varx]

Look everyone is clearly dead set on how they think helves should be implemented.

Only blizzard can have the final say.

But honestly, I really can't imagine helves as an AR a thing this expansion or any expansion in the future when ANYTHING other than another reskinned AR from a race that already has an AR would be fresher.

But who knows i could be wrong, i highly doubt it, but i could be.


Funny story, when i first made my belf pally in TBC and saw the trailer for zulaman i wished that I could be Alliance. But hey the horde grew on me and I can't picture my self ever faction hopping.

Maybe you guys should give the horde a chance. If you're worried about being the bad guys, don't. Once silvy is dethroned Horde will go back to being Thralls good hordies.

[DeicideUH]

Blizzard: -laughs in Bronzebeard Dwarf customization-

The funny part is that people did reply to dark iron requests by saying there was already a grey-skinned red-eyed dwarf skin available for players.

'You can't compare a race before it's status becoming playable with after'. That's the fundamental problem here, your refusal to accept the reason why Alliance High Elves aren't playable. Because High Elves already are playable as Blood Elves, and we have multiple sources testifying over the years that Blood Elves ARE High Elves.

All that just to try to dismiss the very obvious truth: that a race status prior to become playable is no constraint as to how they'll appear once playable.

The point is that NPC high elf skins are not the extent of customization that playable high elves can have. NPC skins are just a cheap shortcut to display high elves, as there's no need to make a whole lot of differentiation until they are made playable.

And high elves are not blood elves. The game does not say that. The characters in-game do not say that. Not even Ion said that, he said "pretty much", which means close, but not the same thing. And, as long as there's a difference, it can be widened with little effort. Blizzard controls the narrative, it only needs to snap its fingers and new developments start to happen.

[Aldo Hawk]

What? F that. Of course my proposal requires more work. But it yields more content which is a positive thing in the long run for the longevity of WoW.

This game is more than a decade old. It needs all the content it can get. Not some lazy implementation of playable high elves because it's less work.

Im talking merging eversong with EK.

Flying in eversong and ghostlands.

New races for dk and dh.

New lore.

New battleground in silvermoon.

New core horde race

New alliance AR from the new core horde race.

All for the low low price of playable helves that are SPECIFICALLY from Warcraft 2 era.

So this is how raid tier dies... with thunderous applause...

- - - Updated - - -

You know what I lied. Found it!

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nce-high-elves



Blizzard: hold my beer

Incredible, it was always like this, a gigantic pedantry and pride, as if he know what is truth and was is possible... Magnificent.

[Strippling]

Yet way way more than a "squad" of Void Elves. Likely a 1000 times more or even greater. The population number is now a null argument.

This is pure head canon. To my knowledge, there has been no official statement from Blizzard or in game stating the high elfs outnumber the void elfs. It is pure speculation and nothing more. If I'm missing a quote somewhere please feel free to share.

It's like tying to argue that dwarfs are more numerous than Goblins... we have no real way of confirming said statement and only have speculation to go by.

Looking at BfA, there are a ton more void elfs around than high elfs... one could easily say there are more void elfs than high elfs.... again only speculation though (but no way of confirming this is or isn't correct).

[Aldo Hawk]

Blizzard: -laughs in Bronzebeard Dwarf customization-

Here's proof that even if Obelisk's posts come off as aggressive, he can talk out his rump just like others.

This is incredible, seriously... how can someone like to hear himself so much and not wanting to be reasonable for once? it's not okay.

[FlubberPuddy]

The funny part is that people did reply to dark iron requests by saying there was already a grey-skinned red-eyed dwarf skin available for players.

It just goes to show Blizzard doesn't give a shit about those types of arguments. Because if that were the case we wouldn't even be having the Allied Race system in the first place. If you can just say "use an existing option" when the point is to offer MORE OPTIONS then that shows a fundamental lack of understanding a system's purpose in the first place.

Obelisk also continues to argue that High Elves can't be differentiated from Blood Elves due to being "the same race" but fails to acknowledge that Kul'Tirans all the way up till BFA (AKA EVEN IN LEGION) were represented by the same Human model, even when that Human model was updated in WoD, the Kul'Tirans were still displayed using the updated Human model.

It was not until internally Blizzard decided to make them an Allied Race that they came to have the different models they do today. So Obelisk's narrative that "when the Blood Elf model was updated in 6.1, they updated the Alliance High Elves again because they are the same race. They didn't leave Alliance High Elves behind and they didn't give Alliance High Elves a distinct model because they are the same race."

Is false.

Because Kul'Tirans were updated just as well when the Human model revamp happened in 6.1 as well. The "fat man and thin man" didn't happen until BFA when they were undoubtedly decided to become an Allied Race. Even though Kul'Tirans and Stormwindians are the same race.

[Aldo Hawk]

This is pure head canon. To my knowledge, there has been no official statement from Blizzard or in game stating the high elfs outnumber the void elfs. It is pure speculation and nothing more. If I'm missing a quote somewhere please feel free to share.

It's like tying to argue that dwarfs are more numerous than Goblins... we have no real way of confirming said statement and only have speculation to go by.

Looking at BfA, there are a ton more void elfs around than high elfs... one could easily say there are more void elfs than high elfs.... again only speculation though (but no way of confirming this is or isn't correct).

It's a simple guessing game.

From where did Void elves came? A group of exiled researchers.

From where did High elves came? from 1% of exiled Thalassians and elves that never returned to Silvermoon in the first place.

A population has to be -very- small in order for 1% to be less than what is called a squad. Remember, Silvermoon is a city, not a village, and the survivors were 10% of it's original population less those who went with Kael'thas to Outland.

[Strippling]

Woodland theme works perfectly well for High Elves

No it doesn't. Most alliance aligned high elfs are city dwellers, most of which live in a majestic magical city (ie Dalaran). It would make no sense to base the high elf theme around an extremely small group that live in the Hinterlands, of which said group has not been active since Cata. So no, it doesn't work well, it's just fan fiction.

Just because Dalaran exists doesn't mean Blizzard can't create a new location for them.

Wouldn't change the fact that no matter where high elfs would hypothetically live, they'd still be comprised mainly of elves who lived in majestic/magical cities. So I'd say their hypothetical theme would be based around this... and I use the word hypothetically because alliance aligned high elfs will never be playable, given that high elfs are already playable and are on the Horde.

These arguments you're using fall apart when you apply them to the other AR, which means it's not a good argument if it has to be that specific.

The difference is the existing AR are playable for a reason. High elfs on the otherhand are not playable, for a reason (as stated by Blizzard itself). So you have nothing to "tear apart" my argument with, apart from wishful arguments for why they should be.

JSo all this discussion is showing Blizzard, "hey you can also do something 'new' and cool with the High Elves on the Alliance" with all these customization and model suggestions.

There's nothing 'new' about the fan fiction art.

A) most of the art is just blood elfs with tattoos - Nothing new about that
B) Woodland theme is covered by the night elfs - Nothing new about that
C) 'Ranger' elfs - Nothing new about that. Blood elfs have way more rangers (ie farstriders) than alliance aligned highelfs

Also, your comment about Alliance now "owning" rights to the Thalassian model was cute. A true example of wishful thinking. AR's aren't based off AR's, so sorry pal you "own" no right to it.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a simple guessing game.

Simple guessing. Not factual. So any population claims are based on a "guess".

[Syegfryed]

Blizzard: -laughs in Bronzebeard Dwarf customization-

wierd, i don't see flame eyes or beards

this looks like just an ironforge dwarf with dark skin tone and red eyes, unless you spin too much

[FlubberPuddy]

this looks like just an ironforge dwarf with dark skin tone and red eyes, unless you spin too much

Thanks, you just proved my point. Which was trying to prove this statement below incorrect:

Using Dark Irons is a deliberately misleading example because they were already aesthetically distinctive as 'black-skinned and red-eyed'. No Bronzebeard Dwarf has ever had access to those options, and none ever will. It's why Dark Irons qualified as an Allied race. Skin tone difference is the primary aesthetic differentiator on over half the Allied races we currently have.

Thank you for agreeing that "No Bronzebeard Dwarf has black skin and red eyes as an option nor ever will" (paraphrasing) is false.

[Syegfryed]

Thanks, you just proved my point. Which was trying to prove this statement below incorrect:

i mean this is not a dark iron custom, so, no bronzebeard dwarf have the options of a dark iron dwarf

you don'r need to nitpick what he said

[DeicideUH]

wierd, i don't see flame eyes or beards

this looks like just an ironforge dwarf with dark skin tone and red eyes, unless you spin too much

And yet people would suggest this was a suitable replacement for dark iron dwarves when there were requests for them in forums.

[Aldo Hawk]

Simple guessing. Not factual. So any population claims are based on a "guess".

Yup, it's a simple guessing.

Blizzard is more than crystal clear in most of the things we see in the game.

Guessing something can give an important clue about how something is, if you firmly believe that you have to have direct words from devs for every minor detail you end up constantly with inconsistencies.

Look, this is also another guess one can do about Goblin population and why they seem so numerous when they are survivors from a sunken ship.

They do not just procreate and grow fast, you can see in many situations Goblins from other cartels cooperating with the horde, Gazlowe being one of the most prominent in this regard.

What does this tells us? Most Goblins are legitimate Bilgewater members, and the horde have numerous and constant contracts with Goblins from Steamwheedle Cartel. So there is a fair mix, even being most of them from the Bilgewater Cartel. Why? Because they hold that reputation on their tag.

You can also easily guess High elves are more numerous than Void elves by simply knowing Void elves are a squad and High elves never labelled as such. In fact, they have people all around Azeroth and a great presence in Dalaran and Highvale. They even have civilians, you don't have civilians while also being less than a squad and having soldiers.

Simple, guessing.

But how not, you clearly did it. You brought up this idea of Void elves being possibly more numerous than High elves, even stating that you don't have a source for that. Why? because it's a cheap way to cause animosity and you perfectly know it. Try better.

[FlubberPuddy]

i mean this is not a dark iron custom, so, no bronzebeard dwarf have the options of a dark iron dwarf

you don'r need to nitpick what he said

You're not understanding what Obelisk is saying. He's saying that Dark Irons, before they were an Allied Race, had "distinctive 'black-skinned and red-eyed' that no Bronzebeard Dwarf (aka the existing playable Dwarf) 'ever had access to', and none ever will".

And the pic provided disproves that, showing the playable Dwarf option has had, since Vanilla that "black-skin and red eye" option.

Please at least understand first what is being said before you speak on it. Otherwise it just displays a colossal lack of coherence.

[Aldo Hawk]

wierd, i don't see flame eyes or beards

this looks like just an ironforge dwarf with dark skin tone and red eyes, unless you spin too much

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=1051/dark-iron-dwarf#drops

wierd, i don't see flame eyes or beards


this looks like just an ironforge dwarf with dark skin tone and red eyes, unless you spin too much

[Syegfryed]

And yet people would suggest this was a suitable replacement for dark iron dwarves when there were requests for them in forums.

they at least had support to be an different kind of dwarf

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=1051/dark-iron-dwarf#drops

wierd, i don't see flame eyes or beards


this looks like just an ironforge dwarf with dark skin tone and red eyes, unless you spin too much

the ironforge dwarves do not have those skins, and this is prior their edit(who was totally supported by lore and not fanfic) anyway

[Grythletubs]

i mean this is not a dark iron custom, so, no bronzebeard dwarf have the options of a dark iron dwarf

you don'r need to nitpick what he said

This is ironic considering 50% of the comments in this megathread is obkai nitpicking at a perfectly valid AR.
There's a problem when you spend excessive amounts of time in a massive thread than the actual fans of a race that you dislike, a race that isn't even playable yet... (aka insanity)

[FlubberPuddy]

This is ironic considering 50% of the comments in this megathread is obkai nitpicking at a perfectly valid AR.
There's a problem when you spend excessive amounts of time in a massive thread than the actual fans of a race that you dislike, a race that isn't even playable yet... (aka insanity)

Most his posts tend to end in some themed variation of "I know you are but what am I" when the counter arguments he tries gets proven inaccurate.

Some people can't admit when they're wrong.