Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

Only one of them lacked seeding.

Gnomes and draenei say "hi". All the gnomes had before WoW was one line in the WC2 (or was it WC3?) manual explaining why they never appeared in that RTS game. The draenei were an even worse asspull than the void elves and their introduction basically retconned Sargeras' backstory.

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

[Aldo Hawk]

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

That was a Kael'thas follower.

But anyways, I don't understand why they decided that it was a good idea to make Blood elves exile void researchers in the first place.

Void elves should have been Horde in my opinion.

[Varodoc]

That was a Kael'thas follower.

But anyways, I don't understand why they decided that it was a good idea to make Blood elves exile void researchers in the first place.

Void elves should have been Horde in my opinion.

I'm not talking about Umbric's faction specifically, just the general concept of blood elves going too far with the void. It's an old concept that Blizzard was already playing with back in TBC. This is a case of "good concept, poor execution". The concept of void elves is very good, the execution was lacking though. Umbric should have been introduced earlier (it would have been perfect in WoD, this way they could tie his story with Ner'zhul's).

Originally I thought void elves were part of Alleria's expedition and were stranded with her in the Twisting Nether. But now I realize the concept Blizzard went for is better. The void elves being former blood elves gives them more opportunities for rivalry with the Horde, as opposed to just being an otherwordly faction who followed Alleria long ago.

The void elves being in the Alliance gives this faction a more interesting side. Worgen were suppsed to be the "black sheep" of the Alliance but failed miserably. I think the void elves will be more effective as the grey side of the Alliance. The recent Horrific Vision of Stormwind, while just being an alternate reality, offers a good scenario of what would happen if Alleria went mad -- void elves have the potential to become a devastating threat to the world of Azeroth, and that's why they make things more interesting in the Alliance, which is generally made up of lawful good (or should I say, lawful stupid) races.

[DeicideUH]

Gnomes and draenei say "hi". All the gnomes had before WoW was one line in the WC2 (or was it WC3?) manual explaining why they never appeared in that RTS game. The draenei were an even worse asspull than the void elves and their introduction basically retconned Sargeras' backstory.

False and false.

Gnomes date back to Warcraft 2, they had the Flying Machine unit in it and the race was described in the Manual.

Draenei worse asspull than void elves? No, they weren't.

Draenei were first mentioned also in the Warcraft 2 manual, in Gul'dan's tale about the indiginous people from draenor that was massacrated by the orcs. They also appeared in Warcraft 3 and Vanilla. Yes, the TBC version was a horrid retcon, but at least they got two starting zones plus a short story describing how they became shaman. And were important during their own expansion as well. Still, draenei were one of the worst additions and heavily criticized for the retcons that were made for them. People also complained how they were almost forgotten by Blizzard until WoD fleshed them out and they got a big role in Legion.

Void elves managed to outdo the draenei in terms of bad storytelling and being forgotten after their debut. Draenei at least were based on a previously unexplored but referenced element of the setting, and they got a few stories about them before they were left in limbo.

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

That does not make a race. It didn't even have anything to do with the void elves at all. Blood elf shadow priests existed since the race's debut in WoW, so what? A character learning to use magic that people have been using for a long time is not seeding. Or else, what's next? Light Humans? Life Elves? Fel gnomes?

Void elves are a last-minute thought made to fill up a slot. The fact that we got an entire expansion without them doing anything of importance is very evident now.

"Uh, but they appear here and there."
"Uh, but they summon a void dinosaur in that one repeatable quest that has no value in the overall plot."
"Uh, but they failed in their first and only mission."

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Let me add one single argument: Brewfest. We got allied race updates in it this year.

Horde-side, a nightborne vintner was added. It instantly clicked, because we actually saw their vineyards in Suramar, and arcwine was a huge center point in their story and their culture. After the undoing of the Nightwell, you get a vintner commenting on making new forms of wines in their starting area. The brewfest addition was natural. You even ask why there's only one NPC there in a small stand, they should have gotten more space and more attention.

Void elves? Also a vintner. Out of nowhere. They don't even have a settlement, or even a single house, anywhere. Where do they make wine? How do they make it? And they put VOID energy in their wine??? What happened to "void is not a toy" speech Umbric gave to Shandris? That vintner in Brewfest is completely devoid of any lore around it, it's just there to fill up a slot. It's a souless imitation of the nightborne vintner.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That's a big leap in logic. There are also a lot of corrupted humans in the Vision... I guess Anduin is about to become a villain then.

Also, the void elves in the Vision didn't betray the Alliance, they were corrupted by N'Zoth. They didn't do it willingly. When you kill Corrupted Alleria, she is freed from her corruption and realizes what she's done. You're basically giving them freedom from N'Zoth's control. And again, it's the same thing on the Horde side. Thrall succumbs to the whispers and you have to put him down and free him from his torment.

These Visions don't mean anything.

You are completely missing my point.

I'm saying that one of the few things we knew about Void Elves is the whole "They dabble in dark magics, we should be wary." And what we got is that happening on vision.

The point is that it just repeats a previously stated information but since it's just a vision is not even real so it doesn't even count as development. Is just "Void Elves are in danger of giving in to the void" again, but in a vision.

Instead of ACTUALLY have void elves participating in reality during the events. That's what sucks, that they are getting no development. Just a vision that only shows something not real that has been a fear from the beginning.

[Varodoc]

I'm saying that one of the few things we knew about Void Elves is the whole "They dabble in dark magics, we should be wary." And what we got is that happening on vision.

Yes. Void elves do succumb to the whispers in that alternate reality, just like literally any other citizen of Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

Who cares if the void elves are getting no lore development in BfA. Maybe you should lower your expectations when we have races who did not get any development for actual decades (gnomes did jackshit from Cataclysm to BfA, draenei did jackshit from Wrath of the Lich King to WoD).

From a certain point of view, it's a good thing that the void elves are not getting any development from those hacks at Blizzard.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Gnomes and draenei say "hi". All the gnomes had before WoW was one line in the WC2 (or was it WC3?) manual explaining why they never appeared in that RTS game. The draenei were an even worse asspull than the void elves and their introduction basically retconned Sargeras' backstory.

Yet both groups had whole areas related to setting them up as a group and later narrative appearances through quests; that's THE issue with Void Elves; their whole set up as a group is their unlock quest chain.

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

Regardless of any set up of Void + Elves, the problem is their lack of set up as A GROUP. It was just such a senseless mistake to not making VE's part of the Alleria narrative through Argus. The thematic set up exists even if it was Alleria's set up that did most of the heavy lifting with Solarian being little more than a seed.

But the utter fail of the Void Elves is their totally out-of-nowhere appareance as a group, with no build up or set up. It's appalling that it has been 2 years and little has been done to correct this.

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Yes. Void elves do succumb to the whispers in that alternate reality, just like literally any other citizen of Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

Which is the point of my complaint since this is no new development and sadly the only relevance they'll get in this VOID related patch.

Who cares if the void elves are getting no lore development in BfA. Maybe you should lower your expectations when we have races who did not get any development for actual decades (gnomes did jackshit from Cataclysm to BfA, draenei did jackshit from Wrath of the Lich King to WoD).

From a certain point of view, it's a good thing that the void elves are not getting any development from those hacks at Blizzard.

Hard disagree; again every other race had zones dedicated to their introduction as well as quests, Void Elves did not thus NEEDED the attention, and every day it doesn't happens it's more of a wasted Allied Race.

You can't say no development is better because you might not like the development they could get. It's just silly to defend the fact they are empty husks.

[Varodoc]

Yet both groups had whole areas related to setting them up as a group and later narrative appearances through quests; that's THE issue with Void Elves; their whole set up as a group is their unlock quest chain.


Regardless of any set up of Void + Elves, the problem is their lack of set up as A GROUP. It was just such a senseless mistake to not making VE's part of the Alleria narrative through Argus. The thematic set up exists even if it was Alleria's set up that did most of the heavy lifting with Solarian being little more than a seed.

But the utter fail of the Void Elves is their totally out-of-nowhere appareance as a group, with no build up or set up. It's appalling that it has been 2 years and little has been done to correct this.

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Which is the point of my complaint since this is no new development and sadly the only relevance they'll get in this VOID related patch.



Hard disagree; again every other race had zones dedicated to their introduction as well as quests, Void Elves did not thus NEEDED the attention, and every day it doesn't happens it's more of a wasted Allied Race.

You can't say no development is better because you might not like the development they could get. It's just silly to defend the fact they are empty husks.

"Utter fail". From a backstory perspective, maybe. Everything else -- void elves are the most played allied race for a reason.

Also, void elves have a zone and quests dedicated to their introduction. How do you think you unlock them?

I don't care if they are empty husks because I gave up on those hacks long ago. I just enjoy the ride and try not to think too much about it. Warcraft stopped being serious long ago, when they made an entire expansion out of an April's Fools joke.

[Guildenstern]

You know I was opposed to having High Elves, but if it means Horde gets San'layn ("Dead" elves) I'll be all for it. Can't see reason not to add more elves - they're clearly popular and look at these threads, thousands of replies and counting - - crazy!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

"Utter fail". From a backstory perspective, maybe. Everything else -- void elves are the most played allied race for a reason.

And lore is my concern here. As much every other AR is less popular than VE's, their lore is better across the board.

Also, void elves have a zone and quests dedicated to their introduction. How do you think you unlock them?

We unlocked them by following Alleria's journey -which I loved- but is completely unrelated of Umbric's group. They are literally a group that completely unrelated started studying the void and Alleria has to save; all of it we only learn through the unlock chain quest.

I don't care if they are empty husks because I gave up on those hacks long ago. I just enjoy the ride and try not to think too much about it. Warcraft stopped being serious long ago, when they made an entire expansion out of an April's Fools joke.

Then why spend time arguing with people that are concerned about the lore? It just seems like incompatible appeals and interests.

[Varodoc]

And lore is my concern here. As much every other AR is less popular than VE's, their lore is better across the board.

It's not better, that's subjective. They have a bigger lore, it doesn't mean it's better.

We unlocked them by following Alleria's journey -which I loved- but is completely unrelated of Umbric's group. They are literally a group that completely unrelated started studying the void and Alleria has to save; all of it we only learn through the unlock chain quest.

No. We unlocked them by teaming up with Umbric and his group and delving into Telogrus Rift -- the void elves' base of operations.

Then why spend time arguing with people that are concerned about the lore? It just seems like incompatible appeals and interests.

That's not the point. I literally said I enjoy the lore. Why? Because I don't take it seriously. If it's good lore, nice, if it's bad lore, whatever, it's Warcraft, no big deal. This franchise is littered with terrible lore, if that was enough to make me quit I would have left way before void elves were announced. And that's why I am not so butthurt over their lack of backstory.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It's not better, that's subjective. They have a bigger lore, it doesn't mean it's better.

Well it's clear that I think the VE's lacking lore sucks, that's the whole point. What is not subjective is the level of content related to the AR, and Void Elves have the least.

No. We unlocked them by teaming up with Umbric and his group and delving into Telogrus Rift -- the void elves' base of operations.

Oh come the hell on; this is disingenuous as hell; are you really gonna compare the unlock quest chain in Telogrus to ACTUAL zones dedicated to the other AR? What is the point of this delusion of yours? Can't you just accept that empirically Void Elves have less content than the other AR, and that for many, subjectively, what they have is bad?

That's not the point. I literally said I enjoy the lore. Why? Because I don't take it seriously. If it's good lore, nice, if it's bad lore, whatever, it's Warcraft, no big deal. This franchise is littered with terrible lore, if that was enough to make me quit I would have left way before void elves were announced. And that's why I am not so butthurt over their lack of backstory.

And again if you are talking with people that take the lore "seriously" -for all that matters but the fact is that's a different way of engaging with entertainment- don't you see why there's a whole different set of parameters for enjoyment? I'm not telling you to not like or enjoy Void Elves, but it is you who are here trying to engage with our lore grievances when you declare you enjoy the lore on a different level.

Enjoy Void Elves, but you don't need to argue with people that have issues with them because they consume entertainment differently than you.

[Varodoc]

Oh come the hell on; this is disingenuous as hell; are you really gonna compare the unlock quest chain in Telogrus to ACTUAL zones dedicated to the other AR?

Do tell me about the actual zones of the lightforged draenei.

Can't you just accept that empirically Void Elves have less content than the other AR, and that for many, subjectively, what they have is bad?

I didn't deny that void elves had less content, I denied that they had no content at all, which is what you said.

Besides, I already aknowledged how the void elves should have been introduced in WoD. Need I repeat that for it to be valid?

And again if you are talking with people that take the lore "seriously" -for all that matters but the fact is that's a different way of engaging with entertainment- don't you see why there's a whole different set of parameters for enjoyment? I'm not telling you to not like or enjoy Void Elves, but it is you who are here trying to engage with our lore grievances when you declare you enjoy the lore on a different level.

I'm not telling you you need to do like I say, I'm telling you why I am not so bothered by the void elves lacking substantial background. The focus is myself, not you.

Enjoy Void Elves, but you don't need to argue with people that have issues with them because they consume entertainment differently than you.

Given how this is a public forum and not your personal blog, I will argue with you if I feel like I disagree with you.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well it's clear that I think the VE's lacking lore sucks, that's the whole point. What is not subjective is the level of content related to the AR, and Void Elves have the least.

I think it also shows, as Tenebra is showing they don't care that VE haven't gotten development, that the vast majority plays races for their looks.

It's this clarity that shows why an emphasis is placed on looks, cuz obviously no one really gives a shit if say Vulpera were added with absolutely no lore at all, people who love foxes/cute lil furry creatures would play em regardless.

Void Elves are living example of this. TONS of people admit they have shit lore, yet stats show they're 4th most alliance race at max level. It correlates really well with the idea that people are playing races for looks over lore.

Not many care for substance, it's the surface that's all they care about for playable races.

[Varodoc]

Also, and I need to address this because you are spreading misinformation, it's not true that the void elves got no lore development in BfA. Umbric was one of the main Alliance characters of the 8.0-8.1 portion of the War Campaign and Ren'dorei troops participated in the suicide attack at Zuldazar. If you also take the pre-patch into consideration, Alleria and her troops played a vital role at the Battle of Lordaeron, saving the Alliance from annihilation.

as Tenebra is showing they don't care that VE haven't gotten development

I don't care. So? What's the problem. Gnome players didn't have any lore development for a decade, draenei players didn't have any attention for 6 years (WotLK-WoD), heck, troll players haven't even had a leader for 3 years. Why is it such a big deal that void elves did not receive a lot of lore development in what was, for the most part, a faction war expansion?

I do play this race ALSO for the looks. That's true for anyone. You're not playing something if you don't like how they look aesthetically. Doesn't mean I play them only for their looks. I also play them because they are great to RP as, for example (they are one of the most popular races on the RP scene).

You talk as if it were a bad thing that people play a race primarily because of how it looks, when it's not strange at all. If blood elves looked like garbage, they could have the richest lore in the game, but they certainly wouldn't be the most played Horde race.

[The Silver Covenant]

Everything else -- void elves are the most played allied race for a reason.

They are the most played allied race because they're all we've been given. High Elves would doubtlessly be more popular because they've been an Alliance race dating back to Warcraft II.

[FlubberPuddy]

Also, and I need to address this because you are spreading misinformation, it's not true that the void elves got no lore development in BfA. Umbric was one of the main Alliance characters of the 8.0-8.1 portion of the War Campaign and Ren'dorei troops participated in the suicide attack at Zuldazar. If you also take the pre-patch into consideration, Alleria and her troops played a vital role at the Battle of Lordaeron, saving the Alliance from annihilation.

It's hyperbole for "they haven't got much development at all". Here I typed "void elves have shit lore" into Google and already found some threads.

But I quickly see from the MMO-C thread you've actually been invested in defending VE for a long time now.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...y-Have-No-Lore

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761937355

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ed-race-in-wow

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9231935?page=1

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They are the most played allied race because they're all we've been given. High Elves would doubtlessly be more popular because they've been an Alliance race dating back to Warcraft II.

It actually shows High Elves would be more popular, since Void Elves are literally Blood Elves colored purple. This one deviation makes them less popular than Blood Elves.

So imagine, as many detractors like to imply, if you released an even closer copy!

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Also if people want to say "despite all you guys complaining about Void Elves no lore, many still play them so they're clearly a success!"

Then that means people can also say "despite all you guys complaining about Elves, many people are playing Elves so we should clearly get more!"

[Varodoc]

They are the most played allied race because they're all we've been given.

They are the most played allied race because they are the most interesting and that would not change if high elves were made playable on the Alliance too. See, I can also play this game.

It's hyperbole for "they haven't got much development at all". Here I typed "void elves have shit lore" into Google and already found some threads.

That is cool and all, but what is your point? Yes, I have always defended void elves, and I will continue to do so. Just because the majority of people (allegedly) thinks something does not make it true. Just because the void elves received very little lore does not mean that what little lore they got is universally bad.

And, to be clear… "little lore"... not really. Alleria and Umbric have received much more screentime in BfA than Turalyon, Fareeya, or Moira.

This one deviation makes them less popular than Blood Elves.

Or maybe they are less popular because they were released 11 years later and can only be played after completing an end-game farm and questline, which are only available by buying an expansion?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

And, to be clear… "little lore"... not really. Alleria and Umbric have received much more screentime in BfA than Turalyon, Fareeya, or Moira.

1- Character lore is nor racial lore; Alleria's whole Argus sojourn has squat to do with Void Elves, and Umbric's development it's also a character journey that at best mirrors Void Elves as a whole.

2- All characters of groups that already got representation and development within the game to a level Void Elves have not.

3- Void Elves have literally 2 characters that have characterization, and only one of them is actually a Void Elf in the same manner than the rest of the race, the other got her powers on a totally unrelated way.

[The Silver Covenant]

They are the most played allied race because they are the most interesting and that would not change if high elves were made playable on the Alliance too. See, I can also play this game.

It's only a game for you. Those of us who live in reality know that the popularity of High Elves would far outstrip Void Elves, and the latter would definitely have less max level characters after only a few months of release.