Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

At this point you are just negating evidence for the sake of it. There is nothing ambiguous.

It is ambiguous. You're just filling in gaps in the lore with your headcanon and treating it as canon lore.

And, since you, again, removed the quote headers, this is my last response to you in this topic. Removing the headers is extra work which means you're doing this intentionally.

Have a good day.

[Garfurion]

It's not headcanon lmao, everyone knows that in-game scale =/= lore scale. Besides, your argument does you no credit, since in the game there are a lot more than just 14 fighting void elves.

headcanon is saying there could be hundreds or thousands without any lore backing it up while there is lore contradicting it.

Which later lore sources? And poor Caydiem was probably confused, since high elves have been playable since 2007 and the fact that they lost 90% of their race didn't seem to be against their inclusion.

The Warcraft Encyclopedia which is still canon, and Caydiem posted it on the forum in 2004 or 2005 before TBC. She also differentiated between High Elves and Blood Elves.

Except that going mad is not a given, since there are ways to combat the whispers. And it's as desirable as it's having a literal demon burning inside of you, but that didn't stop Illidan and the demon hunters. It's as desirable as choosing to remain in the world as an ugly zombie rejected by everyone, but that didn't stop Sylvanas and the forsaken.

Last time I looked demon hunters were not a species, and the Forsaken explanation is part of official lore. I have seen no lore explaining why significant numbers of Thalasian Elves would want to become Void Elves and face an endless struggle to maintain ones sanity.

[Aldo Hawk]

Your opinion and actual fact are two completely different and separate things.

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference.

Ignorance is a bad way to deal with things. And your statements have been very ignorant.

[Broflake]

I beg to differ:



Also saying High Elves is on the Horde is factually wrong, They are Blood Elves at a previous point they "were" High Elves but they rejected that past and looked to their future as a different kind of Elf.

I don't want to be in this argument discussion because I for one no longer care it's obvious that in the past the Alliance would get screwed over more so I made a Horde character and abandoned the Alliance and low and behold look at the most recent announcement for the Alliance I'm glad I left.

Oh look, blood elves.
Are those the sunreaver assassins/captains?
Would be nice to have the eyes they have. I am sure Blizzard will do it soon.

[Garfurion]

And the pandaren only had one hero unit, yet Blizzard found a way to make an entire expansion about them.

That's incorrect. There was already a Pandaren creep unit in Warcraft 3:RoC before the hero unit was introduced in Warcraft 3:TFT.

[Doffen]

Is that an NPC?
Can you get that armor somehow?

Belt, gloves and pants are very close to season 1 pvp gear in Legion for hunters. Same colors pretty much. Tier19/season 1 legion, some of the best hunter-sets ingame!

https://www.wowhead.com/transmog-set...liance-recolor

For allience that is. Horde got a red set.

Btw Void Elves are awesome. Trash lore does luckily not mean Void Elves as a playable race is bad. It's quite popular in fact, by far the most popular Allied Race. Even more popular than some long time base races.

[Aldo Hawk]

They are the most played allied race because they are the most interesting and that would not change if high elves were made playable on the Alliance too. See, I can also play this game.

I'm not sure I understand your first sentence, since high elves are indeed playable.

I'm not actually sure how I am a troll merely for stating a lore fact, but okay.

They exist and are high elves. Just like the high elves of Silvermoon, who call themselves blood elves, and the void-infused high elves of Telogrus Rift, who call themselves void elves. But sadly it would be quite redundant to add a THIRD playable high elf option.

It's not semantics though, it's applying Blizzard's rules.

And what he said is in the lore, because Alleria was indeed a high elf when we met her for the first time. It doesn't mean he meant that she was still a high elf after she was literally transformed by the void.

It's not semantics though, it's applying Blizzard's rules.

I'm not actually sure how I am a troll merely for stating a lore fact, but okay.

They are the most played allied race because they are the most interesting and that would not change if high elves were made playable on the Alliance too. See, I can also play this game.

They exist and are high elves. Just like the high elves of Silvermoon, who call themselves blood elves, and the void-infused high elves of Telogrus Rift, who call themselves void elves. But sadly it would be quite redundant to add a THIRD playable high elf option.

I'm not actually sure how I am a troll merely for stating a lore fact, but okay.

They are the most played allied race because they are the most interesting and that would not change if high elves were made playable on the Alliance too. See, I can also play this game.

Ｐｌａｙ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｇａｍｅ

People, stop wasting time and derailing the thread. This dude has not been attending to reason since a long time and she/he only wants to indulge into a discussion that this thread should not be centered around.

If someone wants to defend whatever Void elves are, please, create a new thread.

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Btw Void Elves are awesome. Trash lore does luckily not mean Void Elves as a playable race is bad. It's quite popular in fact, by far the most popular Allied Race. Even more popular than some long time base races.

Yeah, I also think they look good. However the way they were delivered didn't felt like Blizzard standard to me.

No, I am not talking about them not being High elves...

It's more about them feeling incomplete and out of nowhere. And also, kind of perverting the Blood elves at the same time. Blood elves would have never exiled void researchers. But it seems the new Blood elves do that kind of things...

[Strippling]

A question to HE supporters. What uniqueness do HE bring with them (if made playable)?

Bear in mind, every race or AR that has been introduced has a level of distinctness between other existing playable races.

[Aldo Hawk]

A question to HE supporters. What uniqueness do HE bring with them (if made playable)?

Bear in mind, every race or AR that has been introduced has a level of distinctness between other existing playable races.

This doesn't seem to be an actual standard and looks more like a standard you just came up with.

Mag'har orcs are just uncorrupted orcs. Not the same as the ones from Azeroth so they can't be warlocks or DK but can be shadow priests due to the Shadowmoon clan.

High mountain Tauren would not look any different from a Mulgore Tauren that gets blessed by Cenarius and their difference is that they come from Highmountain.

A Draenei can become a Lightforged Draenei, and their difference is that they come from the army of the light.

A Kul'tiran is a human. They come from Kul'tiras but other than that the model is just a human even tho it's different.

Well, I could add some more but the point has been made.

High elves are Thalassians that physically didn't went through the fel radiation that affected the Blood elves, and they don't come from Silvermoon that's for sure.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I beg to differ:



Also saying High Elves is on the Horde is factually wrong, They are Blood Elves at a previous point they "were" High Elves but they rejected that past and looked to their future as a different kind of Elf.

I don't want to be in this argument discussion because I for one no longer care it's obvious that in the past the Alliance would get screwed over more so I made a Horde character and abandoned the Alliance and low and behold look at the most recent announcement for the Alliance I'm glad I left.

Also, remainder that even if Blood Elves got blue eyes, High Elves wouldn't stop existing, like y'all get that, right?

Isn't it nice that some blood elves were finally cleansed from the fel-corruption in their eyes? It warms my heart. Perhaps one day every citizen of Silvermoon will finally be cleansed from the fel, but it's a start.

Oh, they are Alliance NPCs? What a surprise, I hadn't even noticed that. I thought they were just blood elves whose eyes were cleaned (since we know that the fel in the blood elves is fading away with time).

I'm not actually sure how I am a troll merely for stating a lore fact, but okay.

I mean this is textbook trolling SMH. There is yet a single case in lore of Blood Elves regaining blue eyes after fel exposure, so you are either ignorant of the lore or trolling with this, so which is it?

Is it because you are salty too much people in here don't like Void Elves?

[Strippling]

This doesn't seem to be an actual standard and looks more like a standard you just came up with.

Mag'har orcs are just uncorrupted orcs. Not the same as the ones from Azeroth so they can't be warlocks or DK but can be shadow priests due to the Shadowmoon clan.

High mountain Tauren would not look any different from a Mulgore Tauren that gets blessed by Cenarius and their difference is that they come from Highmountain.

A Draenei can become a Lightforged Draenei, and their difference is that they come from the army of the light.

A Kul'tiran is a human. They come from Kul'tiras but other than that the model is just a human even tho it's different.

Well, I could add some more but the point has been made.

High elves are Thalassians that physically didn't went through the fel radiation that affected the Blood elves, and they don't come from Silvermoon that's for sure.

You didn't answer the question. I'll re-ask...What uniqueness do HE bring to the table?

In response to the rest of your post:

Mag'har are not just uncorrupted orcs... they are from a completely different timeline. They also have some cultural differences (some clans practice 'priestism', etc..). Physically their entire skin color is different to regular orcs, as opposed to high elves whose only physical difference from blood elves is their eye color (which at any stage blood elves could revert back to blue eyes, nullifying the only physical distinction between them and their kin aligned with the alliance).

HM Tauren have been blessed by Cenarius, resulting in biological changes that (to our knowledge) cannot be reverted (unlike blue eyes for blood elves which very realistically could occur). HM Tauren have also been separated from regular Tauren for 1000s of years, HE's have what?... 10-15 years of separation from their blood elven kin? HM Tauren lore is substantially different to regular Tauren, the same cannot be said for HE who share almost exact the exact lore as blood elves bar the past decade.

If a Draenei were to become lightforged then they would undergo a biological transformation. On top of that, LF Draenei have 1000s of years separating them from regualr Draenei, their lore is completely different. Again... the same cannot be said for HE, who pretty much share all their lore with BE.

Kul'Tirans are a navy/sea faring nation. Their entire thematic is different to SW humans, who are featured more as your typical high fantasy human kingdom. Also, KT have 1000s of years of separation to SW humans... something high elves don't have to blood elves.

I realize you were trying to be "smart" and highlight the minimal differences these above ARs have to their parent race; however, as you can see I've easily been able to highlight how even these ARs have more differences than high elves do. All the above ARs have significant lore/historical differences to their parent races. On top of that, their physical differences (albeit minor in cases) are still more than that between high elves and blood elves. All these AR also bring a level of "uniqueness" with them... something high elves cannot.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

A question to HE supporters. What uniqueness do HE bring with them (if made playable)?

Bear in mind, every race or AR that has been introduced has a level of distinctness between other existing playable races.

A question for you, why is the threshold "uniqueness"?

Also do you even think any HElf differentiation does need a level of "uniqueness" superior to Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei? Does the definition of "uiniqueness" for you is merely an aesthetic one? Does a thematic and political "uniqueness" count for you?

Also is this a genuine question or you just want a set up to say "High Elves aren't unique enough"?

[Doffen]

Yeah, I also think they look good. However the way they were delivered didn't felt like Blizzard standard to me.

No, I am not talking about them not being High elves...

It's more about them feeling incomplete and out of nowhere. And also, kind of perverting the Blood elves at the same time. Blood elves would have never exiled void researchers. But it seems the new Blood elves do that kind of things...

The story for the Void Elves is strange, there is no denying there. It's quite contradicting to Blood Elves as you say, I myself reacted to this. That Blood Elves would kick out their own people for studying magic, is strange in itself.

Besides all that, Void Elves are pretty cool if you ask me. l understand the whole High Elven stuff since Void Elves are taken straight from the Blood Elves, there is no such compromise because they are not Alliance High Elves to begin with. For those who like the Blood Elf model though, great compromise. I think thats the major difference. Wanting the High Elves true to the Alliance, or wanting the model on the Alliance side. For some the introduction to Void Elves as a playable race was awesome, for those who wanted High Elves, not so much.

[Aldo Hawk]

Also is this a genuine question or you just want a set up to say "High Elves aren't unique enough"?

He is known for doing the latter. Look at his reaction.

Charged questions, I should have not even answered in the first place. Just trying to spout an antagonistic and unreasonable answer to attack the idea...

[Strippling]

A question for you, why is the threshold "uniqueness"?

Every playable race and AR thus far has a level if uniqueness and differentiation between themselves. They either have physical/thematical differences or significant history/lore differences, and in some cases both. Hence why to me "uniqueness" is the threshold.

Uniqueness is kind of the key feature of races (in any game), else why even have different options for playable races if "uniqueness" wasn't important? Might as well make the alliance only humans and the horde only orcs... but even then there is still physical and thematical differences between the two.

Also do you even think any HElf differentiation does need a level of "uniqueness" superior to Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei?

Most definitely yes. HM Tauren and LF Draenei don't cross faction lines. They are both slightly different versions of a parent race who is currently playable on their respective factions. High elves cross the faction lines, as their "parent" race is on the opposing faction. On top of that, void elves were recently introduced. That would give the alliance 2 thalassian elves to Hordes 1. Given that thalassian elves (in World of Warcraft) are core to the Horde, it'd kinda be unfair to give two AR's of a core Horde race to the Alliance.

Does the definition of "uiniqueness" for you is merely an aesthetic one? Does a thematic and political "uniqueness" count for you?

To me, "uniqueness" encompasses the following:

- aesthetic
- thematic
- lore
- political/cultural

Now I don't believe a new race (or AR) needs to tick all of these items listed above to be classified as 'playable', but they certainly should tick a few.

When it comes to full blown races, they pretty much tick all the above boxes. AR's obviously don't tick as many and subsequently offer less "uniqueness", however, every AR to date ticks at least 2 of the boxes above. They all have significant lore differences from their parent race and have some level of physical (and in cases) thematical differences too. Void elves are the only AR with not much lore difference from their parent race, but they were given different physical and thematical features so as to qualify as AR material.

High elves only really tick the political box. Culturally they aren't different to their blood elven kin. Physically only their eyes are different (but at any stage could be no different as blood elves may very well get blue eyes in the future). Thematically they offer no uniqueness and their lore is practically the same as their blood elven kin. Their differences are so minor to blood elves it's hard to justify them being their own playable race. Especially when we've been told by Blizzard that "blood elves are our high elves".

Also is this a genuine question or you just want a set up to say "High Elves aren't unique enough"?

It's a genuine question... personally I can't see what high elves bring to the table. The main argument I see from pro helfers is "they're an alliance race so why can't they be playable?"... but that thinking is very neglectful to the part of the community who appreciate factional and racial uniqueness, which are founding features of WoW.

Additionally, I strongly believe that blood elves are the continuation of the high elf story. This is how blood elves were set up to be... they're the legacy of the high elves. High elves aligned with the alliance have only been a minor feature here or there, yet this whole discussion about them being playable creates this false notion that they're the "true high elves". So yes, high elves and blood elves are two separate groups.. but that doesn't change the fact that A) they're still the same race and in pretty much nearly every aspect are the same, and B) to me blood elves are the high elf legacy. So instead of assuming I'm "trolling", how about appreciate the fact that I'm merely defending the uniqueness of blood elves (that high elves would surely detract from).

[Aldo Hawk]

The story for the Void Elves is strange, there is no denying there. It's quite contradicting to Blood Elves as you say, I myself reacted to this. That Blood Elves would kick out their own people for studying magic, is strange in itself.

Besides all that, Void Elves are pretty cool if you ask me. l understand the whole High Elven stuff since Void Elves are taken straight from the Blood Elves, there is no such compromise because they are not Alliance High Elves to begin with. For those who like the Blood Elf model though, great compromise. I think thats the major difference. Wanting the High Elves true to the Alliance, or wanting the model on the Alliance side. For some the introduction to Void Elves as a playable race was awesome, for those who wanted High Elves, not so much.

I hope we get some scenarios where Rommath reconsiders his bigotry with the Sunwell and creates a new conflict with the Void elves.

Something like: 'Hey, we weren't very cool with that, after all, it's another magic study and you did so for the good of our nation, would you want to return?' But it would be too late and we might find the Void elves strongly sided with the other Thalassians that wandered in the Alliance, doubling down on the idea of Quel'thalas having to become Alliance or not returning ever.

And of course, interesting takes on the Void through them. How masterful they are about this energy, how resilient they became by their transformation, the things they discovered and what they can do, etc...

After all, even if I don't like the race, I want any option available to be good enough for people to feel that their character belongs to the world they play.

- - - Updated - - -

Hence why to me "uniqueness" is the threshold.

Find a job at Blizzard where you can engage in the crafting of the lore and then your personal threshold will be useful.

For now, it's just an excuse to attack the idea and create a sense of being some sort of gate keeper.

Yikers.

[Strippling]

He is known for doing the latter. Look at his reaction.

Charged questions, I should have not even answered in the first place. Just trying to spout an antagonistic and unreasonable answer to attack the idea...

I appreciate distinction between races and factions so apparently I'm "trolling".

Guess we might as well call you a troll for requesting a race that is already playable. And for constantly requesting it we might as well flag the HE community as "spammers"... especially given that you've received two replies from Blizzard stating "No".

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Find a job at Blizzard where you can engage in the crafting of the lore and then your personal threshold will be useful.

For now, it's just an excuse to attack the idea and create a sense of being some sort of gate keeper.

Yikers.

/slow clap.

You keep doing you.

[Aucald]

Once more, this thread needs to settle itself. Stop accusing one another of trolling, make your arguments civilly and without obvious rancor, and if you've said your peace perhaps take a break from the thread for a time.

[Varodoc]

headcanon is saying there could be hundreds or thousands without any lore backing it up while there is lore contradicting it.



The Warcraft Encyclopedia which is still canon, and Caydiem posted it on the forum in 2004 or 2005 before TBC. She also differentiated between High Elves and Blood Elves.



Last time I looked demon hunters were not a species, and the Forsaken explanation is part of official lore. I have seen no lore explaining why significant numbers of Thalasian Elves would want to become Void Elves and face an endless struggle to maintain ones sanity.

Hence why I said there *MIGHT* be hundreds, *POSSIBLY* one thousand maximum, not that there are. I am basing my headcanon on an actual fact, and that is that in-game size =/= lore size, and this is obvious from the last cinematic too. In the game there are about 50 NPCs at the gates of Orgrimmar, while in the lore there are many thousands.

It would not even be such a stretch. Yes, Arthas annihilated 90% of the quel'dorei, but the quel'dorei also spent 4000 years with NO WARS AT ALL. So the base population of the quel'dorei could have been very high at the time of the Invasion of Quel'thalas, at which point a fraction of 10% of the remaining sin'dorei could very well be comprised of a few hundreds elite soldiers.

If the quel'dorei had a population of 1.000.000 at the time of the Scourge Invasion (likely, because, again, 4.000 years of solid peace), then the sin'dorei would be around 100.000 (which would not even be a stretch, seeing how they can afford to send military expeditions into DIFFERENT REALITIES). And so 1.000 void elves would just be a miserable fraction of that 100.000 blood elves.

The Warcraft Encyclopedia which is still canon, and Caydiem posted it on the forum in 2004 or 2005 before TBC. She also differentiated between High Elves and Blood Elves.

Then clearly his statement is no longer valid, since Ion recently said the opposite.

Last time I looked demon hunters were not a species, and the Forsaken explanation is part of official lore. I have seen no lore explaining why significant numbers of Thalasian Elves would want to become Void Elves and face an endless struggle to maintain ones sanity.

Neither are the void elves, they are a subrace for a reason. The void elf explanation is part of the official lore too, just like the forsaken. They want to master the void and use it to defend Silvermoon.

That's incorrect. There was already a Pandaren creep unit in Warcraft 3:RoC before the hero unit was introduced in Warcraft 3:TFT.

So if two pandaren units are enough to justify an expansion about them, one void elf lore character is more than enough to justify a subrace.

I mean this is textbook trolling SMH. There is yet a single case in lore of Blood Elves regaining blue eyes after fel exposure, so you are either ignorant of the lore or trolling with this, so which is it?

Is it because you are salty too much people in here don't like Void Elves?

It's not trolling though, it's stating a canon fact, whether you like it or not.

Why would I be salty that a few high elf fanboys hate void elves? The numbers clearly show that a lot of people love them and play them, so who cares. Besides, I'd love them even if they were the least played race in the world. What the majority thinks does not have to be the truth, it's simply the easiest thing to say. It's easy to just call void elves trash and dismiss all evidence because "well, they were introduced in Legion, so clearly they must be trash".

Once more, this thread needs to settle itself. Stop accusing one another of trolling, make your arguments civilly and without obvious rancor, and if you've said your peace perhaps take a break from the thread for a time.

Notice how it's usually the high elf fanboys who accuse us of trolling (and to be clear, it's not trolling, it's stating a canon fact).

[FlubberPuddy]

Looking at these icons a bit more:



You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.