Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

Cool and you're wrong there since if they overly indulge in it, they become wretched permanently. So...if you wish to play specifics, you are incorrect in this regards as well Ielenia.

... Are you being this dense on purpose? I said: substance use, not substance abuse. God damn, dude. You act high and mighty, but every reply from you to me only embarrasses you more and more.

Not really, because you see, someone who is addicted to a substance and becomes sober has the mental desire for it, but their physical health remains good.
For blood elves, if they were magical and did not indulge, they suffered physical/magical harm, and they were left debilitated until they drained arcane from an item or person. Something that did not go away overtime.
While there are similarities in the two, the high elf magic addiction is certainly more severe.

"Indeed, a few high elves are said to have succeeded in taking this route [sobering up] through sheer willpower."

Aurora's statement was in response to **the sunwell being restored**, so yes, you misquoted.

Please stop embarrassing yourself. Aurora's statement was about the magical addiction that all thalassian elves suffered, which were now lessened with the Sunwell being restored. Her statement shows how the magic addiction was, well, an actual addiction, and not something required to survive.

Especially since, if it really was something necessary for survival (like food, water and air as you like to claim), then the mortality rate of elves who did not feed from living beings or items should have been 100%. And yet... that is not the case. Is it?

Probably because you completely removed the context in which the statement was made and the circumstances so you could push an unsupported narrative.
Aurora made no statement that supports your theory. Refrain from pushing false information please. It hampers our discussion.

Well, I'm sorry if you completely lack basic reading comprehension. But that is exactly what she did: her statement shows that the relationship the thalassian elves had with the energies of the Sunwell was one comparable to addiction, judging by the effects of withdrawal.

[Broflake]

... Are you being this dense on purpose? I said: substance use, not substance abuse. God damn, dude. You act high and mighty, but every reply from you to me only embarrasses you more and more.

I like how you're playing this game of political correctedness, accuse me of acting high and mighty, but then immediately begin patronizing me for countering your weak argument base.

"Indeed, a few high elves are said to have succeeded in taking this route [sobering up] through sheer willpower."

Which were exceedingly few, and rare, and more than likely were rangers. The notion that all high elves could do such a thing is silly, particularly given the encyclopedia states how incredibly rare it was.

Please stop embarrassing yourself. Aurora's statement was about the magical addiction that all thalassian elves suffered, which were now lessened with the Sunwell being restored. Her statement shows how the magic addiction was, well, an actual addiction, and not something required to survive.

No...not at all. Her statement was purely about the sunwell alleviating the pangs of addiction and nothing more. You are attempting to suggest her statement had anything to do with survival when it was not the case. Particularly since we already acknowledged that the healthy high elves were not likely to die. You're ignoring a large portion of our discussion to push a point that isn't supported by your quote Ielenia.

Especially since, if it really was something necessary for survival (like food, water and air as you like to claim), then the mortality rate of elves who did not feed from living beings or items should have been 100%. And yet... that is not the case. Is it?

Read the preceding posts.
Let alone, that the lack thereof does not result in immediate mortality.

Well, I'm sorry if you completely lack basic reading comprehension. But that is exactly what she did: her statement shows that the relationship the thalassian elves had with the energies of the Sunwell was one comparable to addiction, judging by the effects of withdrawal.

I mean, it is just a statement about the sunwell being restored and easing her pangs of magical withdrawal. Everything else regarding the effects were discussed in the encyclopedia.

[Ielenia]

I like how you're playing this game of political correctedness, accuse me of acting high and mighty, but then immediately begin patronizing me for countering your weak argument base.

"Weak" is your reading skills. First you falsely accuse me of saying there's no negative effects on withdrawal, and when you were corrected, you instead jumped to the other extreme, falsely accusing me of saying there's no negative effects on the substance abuse.

Which were exceedingly few, and rare, and more than likely were rangers (1). The notion that all high elves could do such a thing is silly (2), particularly given the encyclopedia states how incredibly rare it was.

(1) "Likely" is not evidence of anything.
(2) I never said that.

No...not at all. Her statement was purely about the sunwell alleviating the pangs of addiction and nothing more.

... Which is exactly what I'm saying: it's her saying that their dependence on the sunwell's energies was akin to an addiction.

You are attempting to suggest her statement had anything to do with survival when it was not the case.

Considering it was believed by the thalassian elf population as a whole that they needed to find a new source of magic lest they perish, I'd say it was pretty much survival, even if the claim they'd perish without magic was not true.

Particularly since we already acknowledged that the healthy high elves were not likely to die.

We, the players, know that. The elves did not. We, as readers, are privy to information that the characters in the story are not.

[bdlovelace]

And canon lore also says that consuming mana is not a necessity for Thalassians and they don't die for not doing so

and yet the young and old, in other words the most vulnerable, WERE dying before they realized the cause. that being that they were biologically addicted to the magic of the sunwell. a trait shared among ALL thalassian elves regardless of the political adjective you identify as

It is also canon that some high elves that completely shed their addiction through willpower alone. That would not be possible if mana was their "food".

it is not canon. i believe you are referring to a single passage that merely stated a FEW(allegedly) thalassian elves were able to cold turkey the addiction and cope with the crippling withdrawal. again allegedly a FEW

[FlubberPuddy]

it is not canon. i believe you are referring to a single passage that merely stated a FEW(allegedly) thalassian elves were able to cold turkey the addiction and cope with the crippling withdrawal. again allegedly a FEW

It is canon. Highvale Elves are living example of this.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Danil_Lodge

"The high elves that live in the lodge are referred as "Highvale" elves.[8] This could mean that Quel'Danil means "High Vale", given that quel means "high" in Thalassian. After the loss of the Sunwell, the Quel'Danil elves decided to stop practicing magic altogether.[9]"

If a few can do it, then all of them have the potential. This is why the "mana addiction" is referred to as a substance abuse rather than being actual "food".

[Fyersing]

I don't really care who you are because if I did, that would make me biased.

It's interesting that you claim you don't care who anybody is, but you keep responding to me on the official forums and calling me Aldo as a way of hand-waving away anything said -- that is, when you're not claiming I've utilized either a strawman or red herring.

[Thalassian Bob]

it is not canon. i believe you are referring to a single passage that merely stated a FEW(allegedly) thalassian elves were able to cold turkey the addiction and cope with the crippling withdrawal. again allegedly a FEW

Those were probably some of the ones who weren't in a fight for their very existence in Quel'Thalas after Arthas' invasion. It's easy for elves like Vereesa to look down on the blood elves for their "vampiric" practices when they weren't the ones fighting against annihilation on a daily basis. The notion that the blood elves should have had to reclaim their homeland against impossible odds whilst also trying to fight a debilitating addiction which they had no idea they had is pretty outlandish.

Mana withdrawal, I would say, lies somewhere between addiction and necessity. For millennia, the energies of the Sunwell saturated every pore of the high elves in generation after generation. It became a part of their make up, physically as well as spiritually. Those alive at the time of the Sunwell's destruction most likely had no hand in its creation. It was probably created even before the birth of Anasterian and was probably expected to carry on as it always had long after even he eventually died of natural causes. They couldn't have known how dependent their race had become on the Sunwell's energies because it had always just been there fusing into their essence without any active effort on their part.

Then, a rude awakening was inflicted upon them when the Sunwell was destroyed. They suddenly realised just how vital it had become to them and without the power of the Sunwell, the very old, the very young and the infirm were dying. It probably seemed like, if a new magical source wasn't found quickly, the rest of the almost extinct race would also die off. So, of course, a desperate people were driven to desperate measures and began trying to extract magic from near enough anything they could. Combine the Sunwell withdrawal and the impending apocalyptic Scourge forces and anything probably seemed justified.

Yes, some elves may have been able to ride out the excruciating withdrawal, but I don't think they could have feasibly done it while also fighting the way the blood elves had to to reclaim Quel'Thalas. And, those that did ride out the pangs of withdrawal without sapping arcane energy from wyrms or crystals from Outland where people like Farstriders who were already used to being away from the Sunwell's energy for extended periods and were not particularly prolific in magic use in their daily lives.

[Aucald]

Again, this thread needs to settle down. Argue your points civilly and calmly, stop accusing other people or deriding their ability to read. It's fine to disagree and walk away with differing opinions - any further belittling language will be handled without further warning.

[bdlovelace]

It is canon. Highvale Elves are living example of this.

Indeed, a few high elves are said to have succeeded in taking this route through sheer willpower: they survived the process, however unpleasant. Apparently certain magical artifacts also ameliorate the symptoms of withdrawal and might, if sufficiently powerful, be able to suppress them altogether. This is not to say, however, that withdrawal from magic would leave the high elves unharmed. On the contrary, permanent mental or physical damage is possible.

this is literally the only passage you guys cling to for this. to say it is canon is a stretch. it clearly presents this as speculation. it doesnt even mention the hermit highvale elves, it COULD be a reference to them but why not just flat out say 'the highvale DID NOT satiate their addiction AT ALL' instead of 'a few are said' if that was the case

[FlubberPuddy]

to say it is canon is a stretch.

Not a stretch at all. Provided in another source as well. Sorry if you're still in disbelief, but "canon" is an objective measure whereas an opinion is a subjective measure.

It is canon that High Elves do not require mana like it is food.

Plus your arguing that # sources = more canon vs less canon when there's people that literally want Blue Eyes on Blood Elves simply because a couple sources say the Sunwell is Holy and Arcane mix.

Not gonna go down that rabbit hole myself. If you wanna keep believing that mana = food to High Elven races then keep spreading that false info.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Indeed, a few high elves are said to have succeeded in taking this route through sheer willpower: they survived the process, however unpleasant. Apparently certain magical artifacts also ameliorate the symptoms of withdrawal and might, if sufficiently powerful, be able to suppress them altogether. This is not to say, however, that withdrawal from magic would leave the high elves unharmed. On the contrary, permanent mental or physical damage is possible.

this is literally the only passage you guys cling to for this. to say it is canon is a stretch. it clearly presents this as speculation. it doesnt even mention the hermit highvale elves, it COULD be a reference to them but why not just flat out say 'the highvale DID NOT satiate their addiction AT ALL' instead of 'a few are said' if that was the case

Isn't the point that it can be done, not whether is easy or without complications. It just says it can be done, but that it can be dangerous -which tracks with the source that says only the weak/old died.

There's no later evidence that contradicts this, I don't think the canonicity of this can be put in question; we can discuss if it is viable to a whole society, but not whether it happened.

[Rhlor]

It is canon. Highvale Elves are living example of this.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Danil_Lodge

"The high elves that live in the lodge are referred as "Highvale" elves.[8] This could mean that Quel'Danil means "High Vale", given that quel means "high" in Thalassian. After the loss of the Sunwell, the Quel'Danil elves decided to stop practicing magic altogether.[9]"

If a few can do it, then all of them have the potential. This is why the "mana addiction" is referred to as a substance abuse rather than being actual "food".

Did you ever read the blood of the highborns?

lor'themar for example is not addicted to magic and reveals to us that his farstriders do not feel the same pain as other Quelthalas citizens.
It is because of the type of life that farstriders have to live in forest areas far from cities and do not use magic.

but for the common of people the pain is unbearable and causes the death of many!

[Gurluas]

It's an addiction not a dependency, it's really hard to cold turkey it because they've been having that addiction since birth, but it is possible. The Highvale High elves did it. Source:

Warcraft Legend Volume 5:

[Varx]

No one? Ok ill do it. More customisation tham ever before. Hello blue eyes and alleria tattoos for belves. Lmao check mate.

[FlubberPuddy]

No one? Ok ill do it. More customisation tham ever before. Hello blue eyes and alleria tattoos for belves. Lmao check mate.

I'll just link my post here. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51818870

Essentially no hard yes or no yet. Very coy response and "we'll see" when asked if Blood Elves will get Blue Eyes by MrGM. Seems like Devs know it'll be a very contentious decision either way it goes.

[Frenchvince]

No one? Ok ill do it. More customisation tham ever before. Hello blue eyes and alleria tattoos for belves. Lmao check mate.

I think it's better to bet on the undead elves / dark ranger as extra customization for BE.

[cocomen2]

So any predictions on Kael part?

Does he now clean High elf or vamp Elf?)

Image Kael with blue eyes coming back from Shadowlands to become high elfs racial leader.

[Obelisk Kai]

And the topic returns and we are potentially in the endgame.

I believe the chances of a High Elf allied race are pretty much dead at this point. We have had enough commentary over the years, we have had the introduction of Void Elves and we have the end of the BFA allied race cycle. New races are back to being rare, and rarer races are going to have be substantially different to justify excitement at their addition. Not to mention, a few years is going to have to elapse in order to justify excitement on the part of the players.

Expanded character customization has already ended the hopes of a Wildhammer allied race, or a Forest Troll allied race, as both aesthetics are seemingly now being offered as customization options for existing troll and dwarf races. And given that all new players begin with a new starting experience, you really will be able to argue that you are a Wildhammer Dwarf or a Forest Troll.

Which brings us the Void Elves and the Blood Elves. What will they get. For Blood Elves the answer is obvious, the long requested blue eyes and the high elf tattoos from Warcraft 2. Mr.GM asked Moorgard about this in an interview but the reply was pretty non-commital, however I believe this is likelier than not to happen as giving options to an already playable race makes more sense than reserving that option for a group that is almost certainly never going to be added in it's own right.

Will Void Elves get new skin tones? Possibly, but the skin tones maybe mottled with the void because Blizzard might not be able to help themselves. Hopefully, they will let us know tonight because if they don't, Blood/Void Elf customization arguments will rumble on for months.

[Frenchvince]

Expanded character customization has already ended the hopes of a Wildhammer allied race, or a Forest Troll allied race, as both aesthetics are seemingly now being offered as customization options for existing troll and dwarf races. And given that all new players begin with a new starting experience, you really will be able to argue that you are a Wildhammer Dwarf or a Forest Troll.

I only saw 2 clans added for darkspear trolls, there are no forest trolls and ice trolls because they are not physically the same as they are.

So the forest / ice trolls are still a possible race in the future, just like the high elves who are part of the alliance.

It would be a good combo high elves vs forest trolls, long-time enemies.

[Alixie]

If I were a Helf fan, Id be very careful about creating new ideas for High Elves. Blood Elves are reportedly receiving 40 new customization options, and I'm positive that Blizz will steal the work and enthusiasm from the High Elf community, and give those themes to Blood Elves. Even though the latter has been working on building their own identity separate from their past life for over a decade.