Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Nexsa]

Well, from a belf player's perspective, I can tell you that Void Elves already makes me sad for the race I've been playing since BC. We've been asked for things like new, non-stupid facial hair and the removal of duckface for so, so long, and while thankfully we've gotten the latter, only Void Elves get the former. If High Elves were to be added, with all these awesome tribal tattoos, buff looks, feathers in their hair, why wouldn't I be annoyed? Look, more awesome customization for our model except oh, no, if you want to have that customization on your belf model you'd best be ready to abandon your story since BC, your guild, your faction, etc. Already we've been shown that we can be passed over for options many of us were dying to have, only to give them to the opposite faction. If this happened with some feature you cared about this much, you'd be pretty upset too.

On Alliance side, since Void Elves were introduces, I'd say that more than half the characters I run into are Void Elves. For one thing, I hate seeing a model I associate with Horde on Alliance, just as much as I hate seeing Nightborne on Horde. The idea that faction lines are undermined by these kind of races is entirely true, and despite some of you not much caring about faction identity, you don't speak for the entire playerbase. Some of us like how the Alliance and Horde look. Some of us don't want to trade races across faction.

It's called cost of opportunity. The implementation of something like a High Elf means that that customization is now barred to Blood Elves. We've already seen this with Void Elves, and I have to wonder if that race didn't exist if we'd maybe get some of those looks in the future. But now? Now we can't. There's a cost in adding High Elves as an Allied race in that it keeps the Alliance from getting something way more original. If it came down to High Elves vs. Sethrak, I'd be pissed if we got High Elves.

Yet another issue is the idea that there would ever be a "belf but better" race. Yes, I'm fully aware that better is subjective. I'm fully aware that some people would not see them as better. But as it is now, Blood Elves have looks that are low poly compared to Void Elves and so they look older already, and this problem would only get worse if High Elves were added. Further, Blood Elves are in a faction where NONE of the faction's identity matches with their cultural aesthetic, whereas Alliance gets very elegant looks that would entirely match Thalassian elves. This is especially true come BfA, where the Warfront sets are gorgeous, lovingly crafted, beautiful things, and the Horde gets, you guessed it, more spikes. So no, I don't want to see an improved, highly customized belf model sporting some of the most gorgeous armor I've ever seen, riding around on a beautiful updated horse. That IS the culture of Blood Elves. That IS their history.

Oh, and as an Allied race? You can bet they'd get to start at higher levels and have heritage armor. Great. A Thalassian heritage set. Only for High Elves. Cool. That would make two belf-looking races with leveling perks and race-specific armor. I suppose us belf players can stick with BC-quality belf-themed models for transmog, if we want race-based armor. Sure, that seems totally fair to us.

So this is why I, personally, don't want High Elves added. It's stepping on toes, it's insulting to the lore, it's an old, dead-end race. You have Alleria, you have her followers, including all those High Elves coming to the Rift to learn about the Void. Those ARE the ones that never left the Alliance. They ARE playable. So if you care about the lore, there. You have those exact High Elves. If you're only in this for the skin color and eyes, you may want to take a step back and evaluate exactly what you're asking for and how it would harm other players.

You can call me whatever names you want, I don't care. Think this is jealous and petty? Whatever. But the fact is, you can't dictate how these ideas make myself and many other Horde players feel, just as we can't tell you to care less about what you want. The people arguing on the other side from you are not robots, we play this game too, and our opinions on this game are worth exactly as much as yours. How we feel about races added and the future of the game are worth exactly as much as yours. Our desire to see High Elves remain unplayable is worth EXACTLY as much as your desire for them to be playable. And yes, we have real reasons for how we feel, just as you have real reasons for how you feel.

Great post. Sums up how I feel also.

[Ithekro]

Well, from a belf player's perspective, I can tell you that Void Elves already makes me sad for the race I've been playing since BC. We've been asked for things like new, non-stupid facial hair and the removal of duckface for so, so long, and while thankfully we've gotten the latter, only Void Elves get the former. If High Elves were to be added, with all these awesome tribal tattoos, buff looks, feathers in their hair, why wouldn't I be annoyed? Look, more awesome customization for our model except oh, no, if you want to have that customization on your belf model you'd best be ready to abandon your story since BC, your guild, your faction, etc. Already we've been shown that we can be passed over for options many of us were dying to have, only to give them to the opposite faction. If this happened with some feature you cared about this much, you'd be pretty upset too.

On Alliance side, since Void Elves were introduces, I'd say that more than half the characters I run into are Void Elves. For one thing, I hate seeing a model I associate with Horde on Alliance, just as much as I hate seeing Nightborne on Horde. The idea that faction lines are undermined by these kind of races is entirely true, and despite some of you not much caring about faction identity, you don't speak for the entire playerbase. Some of us like how the Alliance and Horde look. Some of us don't want to trade races across faction.

It's called cost of opportunity. The implementation of something like a High Elf means that that customization is now barred to Blood Elves. We've already seen this with Void Elves, and I have to wonder if that race didn't exist if we'd maybe get some of those looks in the future. But now? Now we can't. There's a cost in adding High Elves as an Allied race in that it keeps the Alliance from getting something way more original. If it came down to High Elves vs. Sethrak, I'd be pissed if we got High Elves.

Yet another issue is the idea that there would ever be a "belf but better" race. Yes, I'm fully aware that better is subjective. I'm fully aware that some people would not see them as better. But as it is now, Blood Elves have looks that are low poly compared to Void Elves and so they look older already, and this problem would only get worse if High Elves were added. Further, Blood Elves are in a faction where NONE of the faction's identity matches with their cultural aesthetic, whereas Alliance gets very elegant looks that would entirely match Thalassian elves. This is especially true come BfA, where the Warfront sets are gorgeous, lovingly crafted, beautiful things, and the Horde gets, you guessed it, more spikes. So no, I don't want to see an improved, highly customized belf model sporting some of the most gorgeous armor I've ever seen, riding around on a beautiful updated horse. That IS the culture of Blood Elves. That IS their history.

Oh, and as an Allied race? You can bet they'd get to start at higher levels and have heritage armor. Great. A Thalassian heritage set. Only for High Elves. Cool. That would make two belf-looking races with leveling perks and race-specific armor. I suppose us belf players can stick with BC-quality belf-themed models for transmog, if we want race-based armor. Sure, that seems totally fair to us.

So this is why I, personally, don't want High Elves added. It's stepping on toes, it's insulting to the lore, it's an old, dead-end race. You have Alleria, you have her followers, including all those High Elves coming to the Rift to learn about the Void. Those ARE the ones that never left the Alliance. They ARE playable. So if you care about the lore, there. You have those exact High Elves. If you're only in this for the skin color and eyes, you may want to take a step back and evaluate exactly what you're asking for and how it would harm other players.

You can call me whatever names you want, I don't care. Think this is jealous and petty? Whatever. But the fact is, you can't dictate how these ideas make myself and many other Horde players feel, just as we can't tell you to care less about what you want. The people arguing on the other side from you are not robots, we play this game too, and our opinions on this game are worth exactly as much as yours. How we feel about races added and the future of the game are worth exactly as much as yours. Our desire to see High Elves remain unplayable is worth EXACTLY as much as your desire for them to be playable. And yes, we have real reasons for how we feel, just as you have real reasons for how you feel.

Thank you for that. That is a much better response that anything Obelisk Kai has presented as an argument.
It rings much more true.

[KrakHed]

Blood Elves don't play up their Ranger themes at all. The Farstriders are a back seat to their mage and paladin themes, to say this isn't true shows a real lack of understanding of how Blizzard has moved their story forward.

Hell Liadrin is more prominent to Blood Elf iconography than Lor'themar or Halduron. Trying to say this isn't true is being ignorant of how little Lor and Halduron have actually done. People make jokes about Lor'themar does nothing so very often, that should be enough clue to see that the Ranger aesthetic for Blood Elves is a back seat compared to their Magocracy and Holy Knight themes.

I mean if people don't want to accept it that's fine, I guess they say similar things about people wanting High Elves so at the end of the day it's pretty moot for either side I guess.

I'm well aware that they take a backseat, but they're there and functionally not much different from the High Elf ones. The end result is that High Elves have part of the collective themes of the race as a whole, that is still supposed to be a politically influential portion of the main racial population even if their leaders are somewhat underutilized.

Which is, in itself, a problem. Two of three racial leaders are supposed to be rangers. Distancing Blood Elves even more from their remaining ranger identity would push those leaders even further into irrelevance when Blizzard should be pulling them out of that rut. It already feels weird having Liadrin take the Blood Elf leader chair in the Horde cinematic.

[FlubberPuddy]

I'm well aware that they take a backseat, but they're there and functionally not much different from the High Elf ones. The end result is that High Elves have part of the collective themes of the race as a whole, that is still supposed to be a politically influential portion of the main racial population even if their leaders are somewhat underutilized.

Which is, in itself, a problem. Two of three racial leaders are supposed to be rangers. Distancing Blood Elves even more from their remaining ranger identity would push those leaders even further into irrelevance when Blizzard should be pulling them out of that rut. It already feels weird having Liadrin take the Blood Elf leader chair in the Horde cinematic.

Highborne Night Elves joined the Alliance in Cata. It didn't stop Blizzard from taking that aesthetic which was going nowhere for their current plans for Night Elves and blow it up into its own thing for the Nightborne.

Not saying it's a sure thing to happen for High Elves but that it is possible for Blizzard to do if that's what they choose to do as the precedent has already been set.

It's not wrong to ask for more of that representation back on Blood Elves but it's pretty clear they want Blood Elves to become the Light Elves of the Horde and so the Ranger Aesthetic becomes even further removed from that.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you for that. That is a much better response that anything Obelisk Kai has presented as an argument.
It rings much more true.

Eh it kind of comes across as whiny, but I agree it is much better response than what comes out of Obelisk.

[Ithekro]

Eh it kind of comes across as whiny, but I agree it is much better response than what comes out of Obelisk.

Perhaps it could be seen as whiny, but it is far more honest, and doesn't use tired logical arguments that no longer make sense within not only the lore, but within how systems are setup these days.

[FlubberPuddy]

Perhaps it could be seen as whiny, but it is far more honest, and doesn't use tired logical arguments that no longer make sense within not only the lore, but within how systems are setup these days.

True true, it's an honest explanation for sure.

[Hipnos14]

I've made this little concept with some friends that includes High Elves, more food for thought I suppose.

https://twitter.com/Hipnos14/status/996188157644300288

[Deleted]

better

Blood Elves retain their ancestral land, most of their population, most of their aesthetics and theme etc. They will probably for ever stay the most important Thalasian Elf faction, and that is fine - none in High Elf movement is against updating them, and for making them less interesting. I even myself to the large extend am driven by idea of making them unique again.

I won't call you names, instead of that ask You to try understand few things on the other hand. First of all, covering all Thalasian motifs by Blood Elves, doesn't necessarily serves them well, cause to have all properties, is the same as to have no properties.

Yes, this concepts are more recent, Void Elves are more recent, and High Elves - if added- it would be even more recent, when comes to making a model. You are right, that sucks. I understand, that You may by upset, and You are perfectly entitled to advocate in name of your race of choice. However this is not a reason for not making High Elves, but rather for demanding for the rest of the game to not stay in one place. These concepts are not focused on idea of being just upgraded, they are mostly focused on scrapped ideas, unused for decades. Not adding High Elves do not makes Blood Elves more nature themed, and even if it would - that won't serve their racial identity well.

It it actually making allied race, that motivated Blizzard to make golden eyes for the Blood Elves, and to fix models. Is that not enough? Yes, but it seems to be rather true, what I suspected all the time - they will put such work in making them unique only, if they will have no other choice than differentiate them. This is why High Elves fans are not Your opponent, when it comes for advocating for more attention for the Blood Elves.

fair to us.

I'm glad, that You bring problem of being fair. High Elves fans are here for decades - most follows Warcraft universe from the WC2, and WC3. Till this day, when You since twelve years already can play your race of choice - all the time, they got nothing. No, Void Elves are not the answer, neither compromise - as I tried to explain here - they destroy classical theme. They make loyal fans feel rather mocked, than satisfied. And it's despite they can be cool themselves as separate idea.

Would You really wan't to be as mocked, neglected and not heard yourself, by this so called "compromise", as people, who advocated for High Elves? Just listen to them for a moment. Your desire is as much important - yes. Although fulfillment of ones expectations does not always have to come from refusing of others needs. If only people are honest with each other, about how does specific decisions makes them feel, just as You are here.

I can only tell, that to share peace of cake with someone, who for years got nothing, does not always feel as loss.

[Sigxy]

Blood Elves don't play up their Ranger themes at all. The Farstriders are a back seat to their mage and paladin themes, to say this isn't true shows a real lack of understanding of how Blizzard has moved their story forward.

Hell Liadrin is more prominent to Blood Elf iconography than Lor'themar or Halduron. Trying to say this isn't true is being ignorant of how little Lor and Halduron have actually done. People make jokes about Lor'themar does nothing so very often, that should be enough clue to see that the Ranger aesthetic for Blood Elves is a back seat compared to their Magocracy and Holy Knight themes.

I mean if people don't want to accept it that's fine, I guess they say similar things about people wanting High Elves so at the end of the day it's pretty moot for either side I guess.

Well it's a good thing the Alliance already have a highly ranger themed race on their side so you won't need the high elves!

They're called Night Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well it's a good thing the Alliance already have a highly ranger themed race on their side so you won't need the high elves!

They're called Night Elves.

Horde already had one mana addicted race of elves and got another.

Nice try!

- - - Updated - - -

I've made this little concept with some friends that includes High Elves, more food for thought I suppose.

https://twitter.com/Hipnos14/status/996188157644300288

should tweet @WarcraftDevs or @Watcher

[Deleted]

Well it's a good thing the Alliance already have a highly ranger themed race on their side so you won't need the high elves!

They're called Night Elves.

NIght elves of w3 are the amazon elves, but when they come to wow they become elves of nature and druidic, and the amazon rangers disapiar.

[Traveler Voltin]

if you get another No at the next Q&A, will you let this die?

[FlubberPuddy]

if you get another No at the next Q&A, will you let this die?

The answer to that question is the answer to this question: Will people stop coming into the thread to ask, "will it die?"

[Sorrior]

Well, from a belf player's perspective, I can tell you that Void Elves already makes me sad for the race I've been playing since BC. We've been asked for things like new, non-stupid facial hair and the removal of duckface for so, so long, and while thankfully we've gotten the latter, only Void Elves get the former. If High Elves were to be added, with all these awesome tribal tattoos, buff looks, feathers in their hair, why wouldn't I be annoyed? Look, more awesome customization for our model except oh, no, if you want to have that customization on your belf model you'd best be ready to abandon your story since BC, your guild, your faction, etc. Already we've been shown that we can be passed over for options many of us were dying to have, only to give them to the opposite faction. If this happened with some feature you cared about this much, you'd be pretty upset too.

On Alliance side, since Void Elves were introduces, I'd say that more than half the characters I run into are Void Elves. For one thing, I hate seeing a model I associate with Horde on Alliance, just as much as I hate seeing Nightborne on Horde. The idea that faction lines are undermined by these kind of races is entirely true, and despite some of you not much caring about faction identity, you don't speak for the entire playerbase. Some of us like how the Alliance and Horde look. Some of us don't want to trade races across faction.

It's called cost of opportunity. The implementation of something like a High Elf means that that customization is now barred to Blood Elves. We've already seen this with Void Elves, and I have to wonder if that race didn't exist if we'd maybe get some of those looks in the future. But now? Now we can't. There's a cost in adding High Elves as an Allied race in that it keeps the Alliance from getting something way more original. If it came down to High Elves vs. Sethrak, I'd be pissed if we got High Elves.

Yet another issue is the idea that there would ever be a "belf but better" race. Yes, I'm fully aware that better is subjective. I'm fully aware that some people would not see them as better. But as it is now, Blood Elves have looks that are low poly compared to Void Elves and so they look older already, and this problem would only get worse if High Elves were added. Further, Blood Elves are in a faction where NONE of the faction's identity matches with their cultural aesthetic, whereas Alliance gets very elegant looks that would entirely match Thalassian elves. This is especially true come BfA, where the Warfront sets are gorgeous, lovingly crafted, beautiful things, and the Horde gets, you guessed it, more spikes. So no, I don't want to see an improved, highly customized belf model sporting some of the most gorgeous armor I've ever seen, riding around on a beautiful updated horse. That IS the culture of Blood Elves. That IS their history.

Oh, and as an Allied race? You can bet they'd get to start at higher levels and have heritage armor. Great. A Thalassian heritage set. Only for High Elves. Cool. That would make two belf-looking races with leveling perks and race-specific armor. I suppose us belf players can stick with BC-quality belf-themed models for transmog, if we want race-based armor. Sure, that seems totally fair to us.

So this is why I, personally, don't want High Elves added. It's stepping on toes, it's insulting to the lore, it's an old, dead-end race. You have Alleria, you have her followers, including all those High Elves coming to the Rift to learn about the Void. Those ARE the ones that never left the Alliance. They ARE playable. So if you care about the lore, there. You have those exact High Elves. If you're only in this for the skin color and eyes, you may want to take a step back and evaluate exactly what you're asking for and how it would harm other players.

You can call me whatever names you want, I don't care. Think this is jealous and petty? Whatever. But the fact is, you can't dictate how these ideas make myself and many other Horde players feel, just as we can't tell you to care less about what you want. The people arguing on the other side from you are not robots, we play this game too, and our opinions on this game are worth exactly as much as yours. How we feel about races added and the future of the game are worth exactly as much as yours. Our desire to see High Elves remain unplayable is worth EXACTLY as much as your desire for them to be playable. And yes, we have real reasons for how we feel, just as you have real reasons for how you feel.

See if ion or ANYONE gave this kind of response i feel this thread would have been much more civil

[Deleted]

Agree.

if you get another No at the next Q&A, will you let this die?

No. We will rather prepare better plan of pushing agenda -

1. More demands, that just one race - for making place to a real compromise,
2. Division of tasks, for having both good cops, and bad cops in our camp,
3. Ready solutions and ideas, prepared to implement immediately, in the case of slightest hesitation of the opponents.

Beware. Resistance is futile

[Traveler Voltin]

Agree.



No. We will rather prepare better plan of pushing agenda -

1. More demands, that just one race - for making place to a real compromise,
2. Division of tasks, for having both good cops, and bad cops in our camp,
3. Ready solutions and ideas, prepared to implement immediately, in the case of slightest hesitation of the opponents.

Beware. Resistance is futile

this feels like sarcasm.

[Darththeo]

I've made this little concept with some friends that includes High Elves, more food for thought I suppose.

https://twitter.com/Hipnos14/status/996188157644300288

That's pretty interesting. I wouldn't be upset if that was true.

[Enkrypt]

I don't think you can read body language. Ion's wasn't tensed and defensive ... he was tired.

Your "point" is still factually wrong.

Good to see you're still here not caring. Your perceived position of hope is the one thing that can demonstrably be qualified as "wrong" in this tiresome subject. I'd get off that high horse by now, if you care to save face. Oh, wait... whoops. LOL, "I don't think you can read body language." I legit LOL'd. You can't even read Ion's written language. Bold move, Theodore.

@TotalSyn the fact alone that they see hope in a resounding "No." and to not be aware of how that is, in fact, letting millions of people down softly very tacitly in a corporate way of speaking, is quite telling. It displays one's cognitive ability, or lack thereof, to know how things must be said when millions, if not billions of dollars, are at stake. No smart business model wouldn't perform that way, but that isn't the same as saying, "We'll do them later. Now isn't the right time." With the return of Alleria and Turalyon, Legion would have been the best time for High Elves to be implemented. The two aforementioned titular characters could have effortlessly ushered in the era of the Alliance High Elves, with story to boot, but clearly Blizzard chose faction identity over story-telling. A reality none of these clingers have seemed to fully grasp.

They are, factually, lying to themselves to maintain this delusion. On multiple occasions it has been said, almost irrefutably, that there will not be a High Elf AR. Yet you have guys like the one I've quoted here just going around pretending to be on some higher intellectual plain that can see "Yes." through what is beyond a shadow of a doubt a "No." Your opinion is sound, and even if it wasn't, there is nothing to "factually" prove, or more importantly disprove, your belief of the statement. Some of us just have a better understanding of words and how a mega-corporation has to handle some of its (quite immature) customers, it seems.

I believe Ion's last statement still had the proverbial "kid gloves" on, but it was indeed meant to express an unwavering position on the matter.

[Deleted]

(...)

Seriously you've never heard of disarming trolling by self-irony, and and taking over of how someone describes You?

I was planning rather to leave you wondering to what extend I could be serious here, but now I see, that it could be a little bit too cruel...

I have already written everything I had to say as for being serious - on the previous pages, and there was also clearly given voice for retcon, and references to the profit and loss account in game. So I understand if You ask me about attitude to dev words.

Well - times changes, and this game changes even faster. As much as I care about how players would feel with particular changes, I don't care about portraying Blizzard as more stable in their opinions and decisions than they in fact are.

[Magnagarde]

The reason why this discussion is still going is because Ion tried to justify his decision through ignoring the points raised. That's all there is to it. He addressed "majestic, blonde, tall and beautiful" elves as if that was the criteria these high elf fans have put forward as the sole determining elements for them wanting high leves. Even though I'm not into Alliance high elves, I can definitely see that their points have not been addressed. I can also understand why having a same-looking race on two factions doesn't sound good, but then several questions need to be raised.

What is the reason behind the continous inclusion of high elves on the Alliance side? Is Blizzard including them because they want to taunt these players? Is Blizzard including them because they want them to be important, but not playable-important? What are the exact lines at which the faction wall is shattered and which cannot be crossed? How are void elves a more sensible option when most of the arguements that are given against high elves make an even stronger case against void elves? All these questions remain to be answered and can't be dumbed down to just one thing that we all know high elves have; blonde hair and a pretty neat look.



The proper way to say no to the Alliance high elf request would in my opinion be to admit that - because of Blizzard's actions to make them like that in the first place - high elves have lead some very important plotlines for the Alliance, that they have a deep connection to the Alliance and how they would make sense to have if only blood elves didn't exist. Because blood elves do exist, it is not possible for high elves to exist on the Alliance, which is why it is a final no. This way the high elf crowd would know their request makes sense, that they're right, but that their request is not possible because of what is on the other side(without dumbing the arguement down to "majestic elves" or making fun of them despite the responsibility Blizzard bears for them requesting it in the first place). After this, Blizzard should have actively engaged in communicating with the Alliance community as to how there could be enough difference given to high elves for them to be plausible on the Alliance. Let's say a comprise through.. half elves? This is the correct way this debate should've been handled. This is why bombing them with void elves out of nowhere, on top of ignoring points raised and refusing to accept responsibility for these requests' existence in the first place, was a completely wrong approach.