Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varx]

When you 'taste' a Void elf you can clearly sense it is everything but a High elf and that it 'tastes' much much more similar to a Blood elf than a High elf.

Thanks for proving the goddamn point.


Their physical differences are 'tentacles' (which are more like dreadlocks, what a shame of 'tentacles'), beards (which they shouldn't have if Blood elves don't), hairstyles, and purple-blue-gray color schemes.

Their lore is literally 'Voided Blood Elves'. Their theme is literally 'Voided Blood elves'. In the Alliance.

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I would prefer a comparison with forest Trolls. Which looks even more similar.

When did i say velf are more like helf than belf, that's not what im talking about at all... This is about how apparently silhouette are enough to destroy faction boundaries without taking skins into consideration.

And juat cuz it seems to you that they are just purppe belves doesn't mean you're objectively right. Yeah they came from belves but they are now their own thing. Just like how elves came from trolls but are not considered arcaned trolls.

[Ielenia]

I would prefer a comparison with forest Trolls. Which looks even more similar.

I thought about it, but Zandalari, in my experience, was more requested than forest trolls, which is why I used it.

[Varx]

So a pepperoni pizza is a pizza, but a vegan pizza is not a pizza? Because that's what you're saying.


You'll still, in at least 3 out of 5 times, not be able to immediately tell which one is which before outline/health bar/name color clues you in, considering that many people play with their camera zoomed way back, especially in PvP, to see if anyone is coming behind them. Then there are also all those spell effects going around in the middle of a fight, etc.

They are not the same kind of physical pizza...

Helves and belves are the same kind of physical elf. Velf and belf are not. We'll be able to play with weapons and pants only. People have toon screens. The faction lines are not fucked. Silhouettes aren't the alpha and omega.

Do you really need me to spoon feed that for you?

[Frenchvince]

They are not the same kind of physical pizza...

Helves and belves are the same kind of physical elf. Velf and belf are not. We'll be able to play with weapons and pants only. People have toon screens. The faction lines are not fucked. Silhouettes aren't the alpha and omega.

Do you really need me to spoon feed that for you?

The humans of stormwind and kul'tiras share the same racial identity and yet they have differences despite being in the same faction.
The silhouette is the most visible but there are also colors of skin, hair or eyes that one or the other does not have.
They just have a very different way of life, like the high elves of the alliance and the blood elves of the horde.

they share the same model because one is NPC and the other is playable.
So if the High Elves become playable as the race of the covenant, they will be different from the blood elves of the horde.

[Aldo Hawk]

You'll still, in at least 3 out of 5 times, not be able to immediately tell which one is which before outline/health bar/name color clues you in, considering that many people play with their camera zoomed way back, especially in PvP, to see if anyone is coming behind them. Then there are also all those spell effects going around in the middle of a fight, etc.

This is so obvious i can't believe we have to discuss it.

They have the exact same silhouette and some times they need to be looked a bit more into them to identify what they are. Character tag (the tag that is in the right-down corner, idk how it is called), red/orange name over their heads tells even faster what they are than the model itself.

We have Nightborne and VE, with Nightborne having -A BIT- of silhouette differences in their standing still and a -slightly- thin model. They can also get confused with a Night elf unless you look just a bit further on them.

We have Pandas, who are the exact same, a literal carbon copy, a clone. In both factions. And nothing has happened. They exist and they are there. Anybody can point and show what damage they have done and nobody can come up with anything serious about that.

Crying because we are asking for HE, which are -similar- and -not- identical as Pandaren is nonsensical.

[Varx]

The humans of stormwind and kul'tiras share the same racial identity and yet they have differences despite being in the same faction.
The silhouette is the most visible but there are also colors of skin, hair or eyes that one or the other does not have.
They just have a very different way of life, like the high elves of the alliance and the blood elves of the horde.

they share the same model because one is NPC and the other is playable.
So if the High Elves become playable as the race of the covenant, they will be different from the blood elves of the horde.

The only difference in helf is and belf culture is their political differences. If given the chance any helf would runback to jump into tue sunwell. Even alleria almost wet her panties standing before it.

Kt humans have been almost isolated in an island with a complete different culture compared to mainland humans.

Thats why the playable kt humans have a legit excuse to use a different model.

[Aldo Hawk]

The only difference in helf is and belf culture is their political differences. If given the chance any helf would runback to jump into tue sunwell. Even alleria almost wet her panties standing before it.

Kt humans have been almost isolated in an island with a complete different culture compared to mainland humans.

Thats why the playable kt humans have a legit excuse to use a different model.

The naval potency of Azeroth cannot be Isolated.

They have been there all this time, with the biggest fleet even known. And you want to pretend they were 'isolated'!?!

Here is a big problem with how the wow lore is told. And is that a lot of things seem to be stagnant as if nothing were happening, until they develop those stories/content.

Also, the Kul'tiran models are not an invent they decided to do out of nowhere. Since wow alpha they -already- had models which were bigger male and female humans. Also thin. Except for thin females, exactly just like now.

This was the way to implement those model ideas with a revamp on them. Stormwind humans are going to use them as NPCs too, just like they are using those shorter humans https://www.wowhead.com/npc=842/lumberjack

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion also said if you wanna play a fair skin elf then the horde is waiting for you. So i guess ypu guys just tend to cherry pick what the devs say to fit your agenda even though the same dev is clearly anti helf.

Not cherry picking so much as how obvious it is to point out that Blizzard will say whatever they want to when they want to. Kind of like how Garrisons were "WoW's version of Player Housing" then we learn 6 years later Housing is still a big topic internally and they're still working on how to implement them well.

That doesn't mean that the flood gates are open to flood both factions with the other's silhouettes.

Prove this.

Where was it said the elf swap was a one and done thing and we shouldn't be expecting more of that in the future?

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If given the chance any helf would runback to jump into tue sunwell.

This is demonstratively false since in Shadow of the Sun Lor'themar visits Quel'lithien and they still refuse to go back.

[Ielenia]

The fact armor hides a great deal of the model is what is meaningless.

No, it's not. Because it negates the idea that 'skin color' plays a factor in determining race uniqueness.

Silhouette and animations is only one component out of several.

For character looks and acts? Yes, it basically it's the only components that matter.

While I doubt you have been participating in this topic for this long without viewing the 04/26 Q and A which crushed the pro High Elf community last year, I welcome the opportunity to once again link it for the reminder it is.

You really don't expect me to sit at my computer, 24/7, and read every single post in this 500+ pages megathread, do you?

https://youtu.be/AUik9-2ygS8?t=2779

Note how the question is 'When deciding on Allied race, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed much more of an organic (and popular choice). In the answer, Ion says Alliance High Elves blur the lines between the factions but also states Void Elves are there to give the Alliance something like a Blood Elf to play. Like is not the same as identical, it is similar.

As such this statement refutes your opinion that silhouette is all that matters, because if it truly did Void Elves wouldn't actually exist.

(Wrong link tag, btw)

One important thing: "Blood elves basically kind of are high elves". Notice the bolded part. Anyways. His next words: "What you want to be is a fair-skinned, light-blond haired, tall, majestic elf." That line alone shows his disconnect with what the pro-high elf community wants, because at no point he mentions the lore differences between the two that are important to the distinction between the two groups. And what he says for the rest of his answer to his question only further shows this disconnect.

The high elves shown in the game are not blood elves. The high elves in the game are what the pro-high elf community wants to play as. Not a blood elf. If "fair-skinned, light-blond haired, tall, majestic elf" was all that the pro-high elf community wanted to play as, then this mega-thread would not exist, since the pro-high elf community would be too busy playing blood elves.

It also refutes your insistence later on that Blood Elves and Void Elves are identical, given that something like a Blood Elf cannot be identical to a Blood Elf, like implies similarity, not being identical.

Yes, they can. Easily. The process is there, as per your own words, to convert blood elves into void elves. All they'd have to do is return to the Horde once transformed.

No, that's not it. Nobody is arguing that isn't important. You are the one arguing that it is the sole factor worthy of consideration.

It is the "sole factor" when the other factor presented in the argumentation is skin color.

Again, you are completely missing the point. Character silhouette is important, but it is not the sole point of consideration on this matter. You are attempting to argue that it is, because once we broaden the scope beyond it even a little you automatically lose.

In character design, as in, developing its shape, yes, it basically is.

But that's precisely my point, YOU know it's a Void Elf under there and you can't pretend. You are employing a weird double think here. You are arguing that because you know it's not a high elf it's not what you wanted, but somehow Horde players are expect to feel that the faction boundary has been destroyed on the off chance they hesitate for a second when encountering your armoured Void Elf in a battleground before they realise it's a Void Elf?!

If you ever pvp'ed, especially battlegrounds, you'd know that if you hesitate, you die. Identification is hard when there's so many spell effects going around, especially when the only physical difference you'll have to determine their race is the color of those thin ears sticking out of the helmet. Good luck focusing on that while a battle rage on around you.

In that case the faction boundary was destroyed back in vanilla with the Orb of Deception.

Yeah, because a 5-minute buff on a thirty minute cooldown that is removed on death is the same thing as an actual playable race.

No, it isn't. Paradoxically Void Elves, far from being the trojan horse you insist they are, prove you wrong. Because Void Elves had to have everything else done to them, the skin tone changes, the hair colour change, the new hair styles, the new facial hair options, the new racials, the new lore, all of that had to be done before they were made available to the Alliance using the standard thalassian model. If you were right and silhouette and animation was all that mattered, and political opinion was irrelevant, they'd have just given you Alliance High Elves.

Skin tone change: irrelevant for "faction identity". Hair color change: irrelevant for "faction identity". Hair syles: irrelevant for "faction identity". Facial hair options: irrelevant for "faction identity". Racials: irrelevant for "faction identity". Lore: exact same as blood elf lore, only with a "purple color".

They still possess the exact same model, and exact same animations. Which is the whole problem.

Oh it very much is flawed. It's flawed because you are taking it alone, out of context, and pushing it because you think it's a winning point whilst driving your expressed agenda.

It is a "winning point" because skin/hair colors are basically irrelevant in determining uniqueness of a character model in a game all the races have their unique model and animations. At least until allied races.

No, but YOU know it's a Void Elf thanks to the skin colour.

No, I won't. At least, I won't before I realize who it is because of their name, outline or health bar color. Or if tab-targeting targets them. Oh, it's red/orange? Then it's a blood elf. Green/blue? It's a void elf.

[FlubberPuddy]

Kt humans have been almost isolated in an island with a complete different culture compared to mainland humans.

Yeah that's why so many of them use the Stormwind Human model right? Not every Kul'Tiran is the big burly playable one, that's just the one Blizzard decided to use when making them playable. Kul'Tirans also looked exactly like Stormwind Humans until Blizzard decided to make them different (probably because of the focus of an expansion and/or deciding to make them an Allied Race).

And guess what others are saying? Same thing can happen with High Elves. We just either have to wait for an expansion that focuses on High Elves, or that Blizzard decides to make them an Allied Race.

[Varx]

To touch back on the velf compromise debate and why the introduction of velves for the alliance completely demolishes any chance of high elves in the future.

Now I've already said that there's no point in ass pulling velves if they'll still give high elves to alliance players. To add to that, Blizzard could just have easily changed the narrative around to make the NB alliance and the void elves horde. Better yet, the horde could have easily gotten san,lyan as the belf AR with alliance still taking the NB.

Curious right? Any one of those two scenarios could have happened but instead blizzard decided to faction-swap out the nelf and belf ARs and decided to make a brand new varient of thalassian elves instead of high elves who already have been established as an alliance race. Why do you think that is?

Because as much as many in this thread would refuse, it was Blizzards compromise for helfers. They know how popular helves are but they also know that they're too similar to belves. How do you fix this? By taking advantage of the new AR system and developing a brand new elf race with lots potential and still uses the thalassian model. A COMPROMISE.

Now i get the lore argument but unfortunately you can't always have your cake and eat it too.

And if silhouettes are king, as some of you have stated, make a velf toon and play with obscuring armor on .

[Aldo Hawk]

snip

Do you realize how disappointing is to see the discussion being brought up again by an antagonistic, baseless conspiracy theory about 'X reason i just came out with that i think makes HE impossible'?.

There cannot be any kind of discussion with you, you came out as 'pro HE but just through my idea' and then went into 'anti HE because you said my idea is bad'.

-Always- with a snarky tone that made difficult to take you seriously.

Just get over it, your idea was bad. Instead of returning just to antagonize please look for something else to do or get your shit together.

[Varx]

Do you realize how disappointing is to see the discussion being brought up again by an antagonistic, baseless conspiracy theory about 'X reason i just came out with that i think makes HE impossible'?.

There cannot be any kind of discussion with you, you came out as 'pro HE but just through my idea' and then went into 'anti HE because you said my idea is bad'.

-Always- with a snarky tone that made difficult to take you seriously.

Just get over it, your idea was bad. Instead of returning just to antagonize please look for something else to do or get your shit together.

Im not even talking about neutral elves right now and I definitely wasn't snarky. But yes, neutral elves is the one and only true way, but I digress.

I am not coming up with conspiracy theory. I am simply using inductive reasoning on the inclusion of velves over high elves to conclude that future implementations of helves are illogical. I mean ffs dude why get velves when you already got helves in lore, WHY?! Not to mention if blizzard disregarded the faction-swap and given horde vampire elves and alliance mana night elves would have worked just as if not more effectively.

Clearly I made sense if I triggered such a response from you where you didnt even discuss my genious and just called me out for be "snarky" and being alone in a glorious idea.

[FlubberPuddy]

Now I've already said that there's no point in ass pulling velves if they'll still give high elves to alliance players.

This is like saying "there's no point in ass pulling Dark Irons if they'll still give Wildhammer to Alliance players" when we know Wildhammer Dwarves are still possible for happening.

Or it's like saying "there's no point in ass pulling Zandalari if they'll still give Forest trolls to Horde players".

Or even saying "there's no point in ass pulling Void Elves if they'll still give Undead elves to Horde players" because Void Elves fill that pale/emo elf niche.

Your statement makes no sense because Blizzard have given no indication that Allied Races of an existing race are a "one and done" thing, the fact that Wildhammers are still possible actually flies in the face of this. That alone destroys your statement.

[Varx]

This is like saying "there's no point in ass pulling Dark Irons if they'll still give Wildhammer to Alliance players" when we know Wildhammer Dwarves are still possible for happening.

Or it's like saying "there's no point in ass pulling Zandalari if they'll still give Forest trolls to Horde players".

Or even saying "there's no point in ass pulling Void Elves if they'll still give Undead elves to Horde players" because Void Elves fill that pale/emo elf niche.

Your statement makes no sense because Blizzard have given no indication that Allied Races of an existing race are a "one and done" thing, the fact that Wildhammers are still possible actually flies in the face of this. That alone destroys your statement.

You logic blows my mind. How the heck can you compare di dwarves and zanda trolls to velves. Both of those have already been extremely established. And you're also implying that multiple varients of one race is a huge possibility when there have been 0 indication on the contrary. I doubt there's going to be 3 different dwarves or 5 trolls races when BFA is almost finished and blizzard will have more toys to give players in 9.0, 10.0, x.0 than another skin of an existing race that already yielded an AR. False hope is false, stop spreading that cancer.

0 sense my dude.

[Aldo Hawk]

Clearly I made sense if I triggered such a response from you where you didnt even discuss my genious and just called me out for be "snarky" and being alone in a glorious idea.

Sorry, that's not how it works.

I'm gonna quote myself:

Do you realize how disappointing is to see the discussion being brought up again by an antagonistic, baseless conspiracy theory about 'X reason i just came out with that i think makes HE impossible'?.

Just get over it, your idea was bad. Instead of returning just to antagonize please look for something else to do or get your shit together.

Your stance is purely antagonistic, you didn't even brought up anything but what you want to think, in a dismissive manner.

Do you expect for me to discuss an occurrence that you had that was clearly made out of spite?

I'm regretting giving you attention. It's not even worth.

[Ielenia]

Because as much as many in this thread would refuse, it was Blizzards compromise for helfers.

It just wasn't. Simple as that.

If it was, then the void elves would come from the high elves. From the high elves currently aligned with the Alliance, not the blood elves aligned with the Horde. They weren't a compromise, but a slap on the face. And any attempt to claim they are a compromise shows a disconnect with what the pro-high elf community has been asking for.

[Varx]

Sorry, that's not how it works.

I'm gonna quote myself:


Your stance is purely antagonistic, you didn't even brought up anything but what you want to think, in a dismissive manner.

Do you expect for me to discuss an occurrence that you had that was clearly made out of spite?

I'm regretting giving you attention. It's not even worth.

Lol out of spite? So me, obelisk or any other poster who disagrees with helfers is a spiteful douchbag?

Reread my post. Like i said im just using inductive reasoning to reach the conclusion that giving helves when you got velves out of the depths of Ion's gaping anus makes as much sense as a gay right wing extremist.

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[QUOTE=Ielenia;51292697]It just wasn't. Simple as that.

It just wasn't. Simple as that.

If it was, then the void elves would come from the high elves. From the high elves currently aligned with the Alliance, not the blood elves aligned with the Horde. They weren't a compromise, but a slap on the face. And any attempt to claim they are a compromise shows a disconnect with what the pro-high elf community has been asking for.

You realise how entitled you sound? Why the fuck would blizzard worry so much about whether velves came from belves or helves.

To them b/helf could equal the same shit. All they care about is the model that their player base has access to. When you do your worldquests are you looking at a wow lore encyclopedia?

So if belves are the same physically as helves and the belf AR went to the alliance instead of the horde then yeah it was a God damn compromise when the narrative could have been NB=alliance and velf=horde just as well.

[Aldo Hawk]

Lol out of spite? So me, obelisk or any other poster who disagrees with helfers is a spiteful douchbag?

Reread my post. Like i said im just using inductive reasoning to reach the conclusion that giving helves when you got velves out of the depths of Ion's gaping anus makes as much sense as a gay right wing extremist.

When you accuse me of saying that just because you are against i sadly have to make it crystal clear.

It's the tone you used in your message that tells it is out of spite, not that you are against. I feel bad for having to say this obvious thing...

Also giving such explanation without basis do not help thinking otherwise.

A theory without real basis with added unnecessary spiteful commentary such as: 'And if silhouettes are king, as some of you have stated, make a velf toon and play with obscuring armor on .'

Or these talking-down pieces as: 'Curious right?'. And: 'Why do you think that is?'

You don't deceive anyone.

[Neverafter]

The high elves shown in the game are not blood elves. The high elves in the game are what the pro-high elf community wants to play as. Not a blood elf.

This is why implementation is important. The High Elves shown in game ARE Blood Elves. The only visible difference is the eyes. Backstory, lore, other details may separate Blood Elves and High Elves, but as far as how they are presented in game, that is exactly what they are; Blue Eyed Blood Elves.