US Healthcare, Better? Nope, but sure more expensive.....

[Afrospinach]

Actually its not. US is 19th.

https://renewbariatrics.com/obesity-rank-by-countries/

Depending on your definition of developed nation, US is numero uno among developed countries. You got a bunch of pacific islands ahead of you.

[Orlong]

Depending on your definition of developed nation, US is numero uno among developed countries. You got a bunch of pacific islands ahead of you.

So Kuwait, UAE, and Saudi Arabia arent developed? UAE is one of the richest nations on Earth

[Zan15]

Except all of these studies are flawed. They are lumping those who either cannot afford or refuse to buy insurance in with those who do have insurance. OF COURSE someone who doesnt have insurance and doesnt get regular testing done will die earlier and that artificially makes the US healthcare system, look worse when it isnt the system's fault. Its the person who refused to get insurance and see a doctor's fault.

When someone does a PROPER study that only includes those who have insurance and see the doctor when they should, THEN youll see that we get stellar care and although it may cost more, its higher quality, and the wait for treatment is much less than anywhere else in the world, and the life expectancy will be showing where it actually should be.

Any study can be manipulated to make something look bad when you pollute it with cherry picked negative information

Also, I dont know who in the hell they think it paying almost $10k per year for healthcare services. I pay less than $1000 a year for insurance

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Actually its not. US is 19th.

https://renewbariatrics.com/obesity-rank-by-countries/

lol 1k a year for insurance, but how much does your employer pay for your healthcare?


No one just pays 1k a year unless they are subsidized because of low income or by their employer. So the cost is not 1k

[Captain N]

lol 1k a year for insurance, but how much does your employer pay for your healthcare?


No one just pays 1k a year unless they are subsidized because of low income or by their employer. So the cost is not 1k

He's a Government Employee with the AFSCME Union. Take that as you will.

[Zan15]

He's a Government Employee with the AFSCME Union. Take that as you will.

So basically he pays 1k and his employer pays 12-16k....and he considers it only costing 1k.
Yet the taxes he pays each year goes to paying the 16k portion.



So thick

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Except all of these studies are flawed. They are lumping those who either cannot afford or refuse to buy insurance in with those who do have insurance. OF COURSE someone who doesnt have insurance and doesnt get regular testing done will die earlier and that artificially makes the US healthcare system, look worse when it isnt the system's fault. Its the person who refused to get insurance and see a doctor's fault.

When someone does a PROPER study that only includes those who have insurance and see the doctor when they should, THEN youll see that we get stellar care and although it may cost more, its higher quality, and the wait for treatment is much less than anywhere else in the world, and the life expectancy will be showing where it actually should be.

Any study can be manipulated to make something look bad when you pollute it with cherry picked negative information

Also, I dont know who in the hell they think it paying almost $10k per year for healthcare services. I pay less than $1000 a year for insurance

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Actually its not. US is 19th.

https://renewbariatrics.com/obesity-rank-by-countries/

Well hell lets not include 60-80 million people in our study, that will show a clear indication of how healthy Americans are.....

Why would you exclude them?

"we don't get stellar care" vs all these other countries because their healthcare covered 95%+ of their citizens and we have upwards of 18% that don't have insurance and up to 40% that have insurance but still can't afford to go to the doctors.


Talk about wanting to cherry pick a study about the united states by excluding that many....

[JohnBrown1917]

Except all of these studies are flawed. They are lumping those who either cannot afford or refuse to buy insurance in with those who do have insurance. OF COURSE someone who doesnt have insurance and doesnt get regular testing done will die earlier and that artificially makes the US healthcare system, look worse when it isnt the system's fault. Its the person who refused to get insurance and see a doctor's fault.

When someone does a PROPER study that only includes those who have insurance and see the doctor when they should, THEN youll see that we get stellar care and although it may cost more, its higher quality, and the wait for treatment is much less than anywhere else in the world, and the life expectancy will be showing where it actually should be.

Any study can be manipulated to make something look bad when you pollute it with cherry picked negative information

Also, I dont know who in the hell they think it paying almost $10k per year for healthcare services. I pay less than $1000 a year for insurance

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This the key part. Its not flawed at all, they are also Americans.

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lol 1k a year for insurance, but how much does your employer pay for your healthcare?


No one just pays 1k a year unless they are subsidized because of low income or by their employer. So the cost is not 1k

Even here in the Netherlands its not that cheap lol

[Allenseiei]

I thought the problem with America's healthcare had one word: Insurances.

Basically the cost of any type of treatment in the US is a multivariable: Medical costs(drugs and technology) + Salary + Insurance of the doctor. This is common in many countries except the insurance part. This means that doctors have to pay really high insurances in case something happens in their treatments and they get sued by the patient. The variable price always includes the costs of the service, so its natural that high insurances paid by the doctors will get included in the price people pay for their service.

In countries with a proper public healthcare the insurance is covered by the government, taking responsibility of any type of surprises during the doctor's intervention and lowering prices by very high amounts. This increases the reliability of doctors, since they are policed by the government, and reduces overall costs to the citizens since they remove insurance costs from the price of medical care that is wide spread in the country.

[Hugnomo]

This is why I root for Bernie Sanders all the way from Portugal. You guys are enslaved by lobbies of insurances and pharmaceuticals. You are put into a corner and offered the choice between politicians who are both bought by the same people.
It doesn't make any sense that the US pays among the highest prices in medication (if not highest). It doesn't make any sense for people to declare bankruptcy because of health care. It doesn't make any sense for people to die preventable deaths because they couldn't get healthcare. Many other developed countries have figured it out, yet your politicians still argue that it can't be done, that it's a communist plot, that it's a "pony"... And not only have other countries done it, they're actually spending less money doing it. Clearly there is something wrong that isn't being addressed by your media and your politicians. Thousands of dollars in donations are a big incentive to keep the status quo I guess.
But I do think there is progress being made and people are making their power be shown. Democrats aspiring to run are caving under the pressure of supporting medicare for all and stopping campaign super pacs. 3 years ago that would have been laughed at. Today, it's a must (even if in Korporate Kamala's case, she uses semantics to only appear to be for medicare for all, when in reality she's saying she's for "access" which is a very very vague word she can use for plausible deniability).

[Zan15]

I thought the problem with America's healthcare had one word: Insurances.

Basically the cost of any type of treatment in the US is a multivariable: Medical costs(drugs and technology) + Salary + Insurance of the doctor. This is common in many countries except the insurance part. This means that doctors have to pay really high insurances in case something happens in their treatments and they get sued by the patient. The variable price always includes the costs of the service, so its natural that high insurances paid by the doctors will get included in the price people pay for their service.

In countries with a proper public healthcare the insurance is covered by the government, taking responsibility of any type of surprises during the doctor's intervention and lowering prices by very high amounts. This increases the reliability of doctors, since they are policed by the government, and reduces overall costs to the citizens since they remove insurance costs from the price of medical care that is wide spread in the country.

Do you even know what you are talking about???? i used to sell insurance....what a crock


the cost of malpractice insurance is not even that high in this country. It adds to the cost but its not even in the top 6-10 reasons why its so expensive in this country.


Depending on the size of the practice it can be as low as 5k a year.


http://truecostofhealthcare.org/malpractice/

Even an Obgyn can pay their malpractice insurance with 1 or two deliveries.


Total claims for this 300-500 billion dollar industry.....3-4 billion a year.



In fact, the total amount spent in the US for medical malpractice (including the amount spent by hospitals as well as legal costs) was estimated to be about $10 billion in 2010. We can assume it’s less than that now. But even if it’s the same amount, $10 billion is only about 1/3rd of one percent of the $3 trillion total spent on health care in the US in 2013. That’s hardly a huge factor.

[Tidestorm]

Why US healthcare is more expensive than all other wealthy nations - but life expectancy is the LOWEST

This has more to do with lifestyle choices than the healthcare system.

[Calfredd]

This has more to do with lifestyle choices than the healthcare system.

Both actually.

[tttsssrrr]

Do you even know what you are talking about???? i used to sell insurance....what a crock


the cost of malpractice insurance is not even that high in this country. It adds to the cost but its not even in the top 6-10 reasons why its so expensive in this country.


Depending on the size of the practice it can be as low as 5k a year.


http://truecostofhealthcare.org/malpractice/

Even an Obgyn can pay their malpractice insurance with 1 or two deliveries.


Total claims for this 300-500 billion dollar industry.....3-4 billion a year.



In fact, the total amount spent in the US for medical malpractice (including the amount spent by hospitals as well as legal costs) was estimated to be about $10 billion in 2010. We can assume it’s less than that now. But even if it’s the same amount, $10 billion is only about 1/3rd of one percent of the $3 trillion total spent on health care in the US in 2013. That’s hardly a huge factor.

I've heard that's it's not just the $'s of malpractice insurance but also the time that doctors and practicioners have to spend doing paperwork and making sure all the technicalities are taken care because if a lawyer finds out a "T" isn't crossed it's going to cost big in court. And not the "Oh, I left my scalpel in your belly" kind of stuff. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the 90% of politicians that come from a lawyer background are all too happy to focus on making insurance companies and hospitals the bad guys while ignoring the damage that lawyers due to the healthcare system.

[Wermys]

That is part of it, but it also has to do with the way our healthcare is structured. A free market works in business because choice and availability drive market costs. The overhead used to employ those people are taken into account. However when you go into a market that is constricted by supply, because not everyone can be a doctor, and demand is going to remain constant prices go up. Then the best way to drive costs down would be to actually consolidate operations under one overall entity. Right now Doctor's office for example don't really advise how much a procedure will cost in general, exception do exists however with insurance's these costs from consumers are often hidden because they don't want to advise incorrectly on what the cost is on whatever tests/procedures you take. And the end result is that free enterprise breaks down, because each competitor is keeping secret how much one procedure costs vs another. Couple that with decentralized overhead of each companies hr department, hiring of doctors/pharmacists making insurance policies/prior authorizations on medical billing and that also drives the costs up.

Ultimately if we want to lower costs its either a total conslidation to a universal model similar to Canada etc, or a reformed model where pricing transparency exists so costs can be pushed lower by competition. As it stands right now, Doctor's/Hospitals have no incentives on competing pricewise against each other. Since insurance takes care of the billing. Only quality wise is what people look at right now since they don't care what is paid since the majority will be covered by the insurance unless its a high deductible policy. They only concern themselves with which insurance to keep. The only thing insurance cares about is medical determination on what is the most cost effective procedure. But that actually is the same in other countries with universal healthcare, just at a national level instead of the insurance biller which you have now. Plus you take out profit motive but that could help lower costs also its a two edged blade. On the other hand without profit motive by insurers, then no incentive to innovate care exists to help lower costs also.

Another possibility is a system where an Universal insurance pool, where everyone is in that pool through tax's. But hospitals/pharmacies/clinics are privately owned. With total transparency where its a requirement for any medical provider/pharmacy to state prices for various procedures and let economics drive down costs with improved efficiency/competition from providers etc. The other bonus is lower overhead costs because of a consolidation of insurance providers into one means that less people are required to run the plan overall since instead of 50 different insurance companies hr billing etc, its now one.

My point is that there is no easy solution each approach has plus's and minus's to them. But in either case the current model is just stupidly broke because pricing competition is pretty much non existent. The good thing about the ACA is it forced insurance on people which spread the cost, it got rid of high risk pools etc, but at the same time it hasn't worked as well in containing costs. Being obese does cost insurance more but it doesn't account for all the increased costs. Sorry for the long post.

[Najnaj]

It's great, man.

Half of the voting population in America never gets sick, and when they do get sick it's OK because they've got enough money to pay for any treatment they require. These people vote for a party that is actively trying to tear down health systems in the U.S.

The other half is trying to make health care more accessible for every american regardless of their social status or level of income. They vote for the party that has a wide ranging progressive social agenda. Unfortunately all those rich, super healthy americans I just mention keep turning out and voting more than these carebears so the health system just keeps getting undercut.

So yeah, I suppose you could say it's not great, but at least it's working as intended.

Do you honestly think that it is the rich that voted in Trump? The typical republican voter is blue-collar and most of the republican states have lower average income and education. Healthcare is being kept down by excessive lobbying and one issue voters.

FUN FACT!! The average US citizen pays almost as much for socialized healthcare as the average UK citizen...but isn't getting it.

[Doctor Amadeus]

For once we have a subject we can agree on Zan. But Obamacare was not the right direction. It never addressed the main issue with the health care costs in the US. Raising costs. Drug costs are also a major issue. We will never see Universal health care in the US however. And you guys think the NRA are strong lobbyists. lol! Price controls would be one step. But even that is not going to happen.

No Obamacare was a soft step in the right direction because Blue Dogs wouldn't go for a Public option, the idea was that if people got used to having access and people came on board without republicans trying to obstruct every step of the way, the prices wouldn't have come down a lot relative to what they would have been if we did nothing which is exactly what Republicans wanted then and NOW, and their stupid voucher program.

But thankfully real republicans with conscience stopped Trump and the rest of the idiot Republicans that wanted to repeal Obamacare. Unironically it was a Real Hero John McCain who stepped up, you know the one that didn't duck out of military service because of born spurs.

[Najnaj]

I've heard that's it's not just the $'s of malpractice insurance but also the time that doctors and practicioners have to spend doing paperwork and making sure all the technicalities are taken care because if a lawyer finds out a "T" isn't crossed it's going to cost big in court. And not the "Oh, I left my scalpel in your belly" kind of stuff. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the 90% of politicians that come from a lawyer background are all too happy to focus on making insurance companies and hospitals the bad guys while ignoring the damage that lawyers due to the healthcare system.

The healthcare lobby is one of the biggest contributors to US political campaigns that we know of. This is the main reason that the US does not have socialized healthcare. If you think that 90% of politicians are against them and yet vote for them ...well, I don't know what to say really.

Also the difference in government healthcare costs in the US and private healthcare is in the trillions of dollars. Not the sort of sum you rack up by "crossing t's." The difference in costs when you compare the US to Europe can mostly be summed up with one word, profit.

[Dystemper]

One of the main causes for health problems in the USA is the farce that was the nutritional guidelines of the FDA that a low fat , high carb diet caused. Obesity sky rocketed as did other issues such as heart disease, type 2 Diabetes ( I am type 2) among other issues. Slowly they are reversing this but the damage was done.

[Deleted]

Do Americans also live twice as unhealthy?

[Dystemper]

Do Americans also live twice as unhealthy?

Deopends on what you consider unhealthy. Our Nutritional guidelines suck ass. Low fat diet has caused far more health problems then anything else really. Then we have the Doctors who just pump you full of pills instead of trying other methods I.e Statins for Cholesterol when the guidelines for Cholesterol are now being challenged.

[Najnaj]

Do Americans also live twice as unhealthy?

No, This was true 30 years ago but not today. The US is still the overweight world champ but just barely and the average weight is stagnant. Most of Western Europe is catching up fast. Much of the more developed parts of Asia are as well.