View Poll Results: Which version should be used as a framework and why?

318. You may not vote on this poll
  • World of Warcraft Vanilla

    30 9.43%
  • The Burning Crusade

    44 13.84%
  • Wrath of the Lich King

    103 32.39%
  • Cataclysm

    8 2.52%
  • Mists of Pandaria

    78 24.53%
  • Warlords of Draenor

    7 2.20%
  • Legion

    48 15.09%
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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Cataclysm 4.0 was peak WoW. It went to shit by the time 4.3 rolled around, though, so overall Mists was the perfect expansion.
    The Naaru may not have forgotten the Draenei, but Blizzard sure as hell has.

  2. #102
    TBC 100%.
    If wrath didnt have: lfg, laughable difficulty for t7, a progression that makes the previous patch irrelevant, t-sets for facerolling heroics
    it would have been my choice.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    The only trouble with that system is while it feels grate for the few who hit the top with a solid team, it makes it really hard for mid range and late progression guilds to get anything done, because of roster decay and higher guilds cannibalizing the smaller ones. Ya, if your group held together it was grate if not you felt like crap trying to find new people over and over. Casual guilds REALLY had it bad in that they never really got anything done, group night was usually lucky to get a Kara or ZA run going and after a while you just kind of lost hope of ever doing anything, And lord forbid you didn't like raiding because there was almost nothing to do besides it.

    My point is BC had a few good strengths but that was all it really had, if the narrow avenues of play warn't for you, you ended up with a few consolation prizes to tinker with while you herd how much fun the top end raiders where having, and let's not pretend that any healthy percentage of people actually got to the top as this was still the era of 2-10% participation rates.

    One last thing I will add is it's funny you cite ease of access as the reason why wow is dieing, when the whole reason wow became popular was because of that same ease of access. believe it or not but with it's launch WoW was probably the easiest MMOs one the market at the time, and for most if not all of it's time spent rising to fame and power, it continued making things easier and more accessible.
    This 100%.

    +1 internets for you.

    Beautifully stated. The endgame model sucked (even if the raids themselves were good) for much of the player base. Exclusivity should DIAF.
    Keep moving forward. - Walt Disney

  4. #104
    I often think about them streamlining the game after the last expansion gets released. So if you make a character you start lvl 1 in vanilla, you level to 60 do all the raids and then go on to TBC, etc etc etc to experience all the story. On the way you unlock all the playable races, classes etc. Maybe have AI for raids/dungeons etc if they want to make it a single player experience, something like that.

  5. #105
    i often ask myself how many here really played wotlk the whole xpac AND i.e. TBC the whole xpac. ....

    wotlk was way more worse than ppl think it was. dont get me wrong: it definetelly was a good xpac. but really not THAT good. imo ppl not remember on the introduction of LFG and stupid lame fast runs without any m+ alternatives etc. they not remember bad cheap arena raid. they not remember simple and lame dailies, without anything else to do. they not remember that cheap naxx experience. and so on. ulduar was good. icc was ok. but beside that there wasnt that much to hype that xpac to glory...
    There are only 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    Combining the best elements from each expansion and eliminating the worst elements

    Which expansion should be used as a framework and why? (Not which expansion is best)

    I think Vanilla would be the best framework as imo it only really needs updated class balance and a modern lick of paint (graphics/mechanics).
    You're tapping into a subject that is 100% alien to people of this forum. They don't know what makes a good game, they'll just vote for the content they liked most without even asking themselves what's a framework.

    Good poll idea on paper but I doubt you'll get the answers you're looking for.

  7. #107
    WotLK is the easy answer. As said before it had proper content for every player: hardcore, casual, PVP, collectors, RP and such. Later expansions only try to focus on a few things, like Cata and WoD focussed to much on raiding and now its just mythic+ and transmog stuff while mythic raiding and PvP is pretty much dead. Vanilla and TBC has strengths of their own where it feels like a major accomplishment to get trough the latest content, but its not so great for casuals and by todays standards they would just leave the game. MoP might've been good but the overuse of the Asian theme did not do well for the game at all, and I think its a fair criticism towards the game.

    Thats not to say that WotLK was perfect either, it just did the most thigns right compared to other expansions. I would've loved to have a harder difficulty for Naxx10/25, replace ToC with an Azjol-Nerub raid, more story for Kel'Thuzad and Anub'arak who were both major Scourge characters in WC3.

  8. #108
    Wrath. Why? Because proc based dps is stupid. Cata made every single class less fun to play. To this day, it is still stupid, proc based, priority rotations. So much fun looking at your buttons., instead of the environment or raid mechanics.

  9. #109
    The Lightbringer A Chozo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Never clicked Pandaria so quick in a poll;

  10. #110
    Blademaster bloodstripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Oklahoma, it sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by lummiuster View Post
    TBC was far better than WOLK. People vote for WOLK because they didnt play TBC.
    Things started going bad when they added CCs/Stuns/Bubles/DKs...
    Exactly. If only TBC had more 10-man content and flex, it would be just about perfect.

  11. #111
    1. Legion
    2. Mists
    3. WoTLK
    4. TBC
    5. Cataclysm
    6. WoD
    7. Classic

    Legion and Mists pretty much have to be at top because they delivered the most content, never had a dull moment (not counting the obviously boring situation "end of an expansion while waiting for the next one" which every expansion suffers from), and had quality raids.
    WoTLK might be slightly over-hyped at #3 but it had probably the story-line that everyone likes plus 2 extremely well-designed raids.
    TBC was decent but is generally over-hyped and its mechanics today wouldn't be up to par anymore. Cataclysm had a good start but then a sharp decline. WoD was just bad. Classic made sense back then but is not at all a competitor anymore.
    Last edited by TaurenNinja; 2018-04-17 at 05:00 PM.

  12. #112
    Herald of the Titans Marston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    If you simply want the framework, I think anything that doesn't say "Current Expansion" is wrong. All the systems are there, unless you define "framework" differently than me.

    Anyway, I would still argue they should use Legion. Mythic+ and World Quests added longeviety to most of the world. Things could still be balanced differently, I am not sure which expansiond had the best PvP or where PvE balance wise was best. I do think though that Legion offers the most systems (even if we only count new ones) which add some of the best replayability.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by lummiuster View Post
    this is exactly what made the game good. And honestly it is exactly because blizzard listened to feedbacks from people like you that the game is dying. "game is too hard, why is the end raids unaccessible for everyone". Look now they made the game for grand mothers and children. You still have 5 other raids to do, still you wanna do the hardest one...

    I want to be able to participate in all of the content. WotLK did that best, and hard mode on raids was an excellent idea. It started shaky with the easy Naxxramus -- which was repeat content anyways -- but Ulduar was golden and the addition of heroic raiding was a great idea.

    You didn't even get around to saying why this makes the game bad. I'm assuming it's because you couldn't come up with a valid, logical reason. Have a good one!

  14. #114
    Herald of the Titans Littleraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MoP with heavy Wrath influence. That is the best combination to start with IMO. MoP had the most balanced amount of things to do objectively even if they swung too far in the daily direction. This is why i think it with Wrath influence would be by and large the best place to start.
    "For the Alliance!" - Varian Wrynn

  15. #115
    Mechagnome Drudatz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    WotLK was THE BEST era this game had, content for everyone, easy catch ups, old raids were still relevant without some dumb shit like legendaries chances but a quest who helped you with current content, it was perfect
    WHAT? the healing mace wants a word with you sir! that was a fucking horible lego destri system wotlk had.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Happy View Post
    Cataclysm 4.0 was peak WoW. It went to shit by the time 4.3 rolled around, though, so overall Mists was the perfect expansion.
    Yeah such a peak that it had the largest pre WoD sub drop that 4.3 additions (transmog and lfr) stopped

  17. #117
    Stood in the Fire Ilyiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    This is framework I.e. Game systems, endgame model, character progression. Not best expansion for you.

    If we're going framework the ranking is easily this:

    Legion has the most to do by a landslide. Some artifact ground cleanup would make it near flawless gaming. It's got tons of things at every level, and pleases the most at once. MoP was the closest they got to world quests without making them and had things that were enjoyable and had good rewards, but in the form of dailies, creating gripes. Yes I put Classic because vanilla endgame was massive. So so so much to do at max level in vanilla.

    The controversial pick is wrath. Don't get me wrong: I loved wrath. But its endgame wasn't stellar, which these forums always forget. 5 man content was simply not hard or rewarding enough, raids were great, dailies were very un-polished, and the rewards were almost exclusively from raiding. Didn't do much. Tbc was only slightly worse, with harder 5 mans balancing it a bit and better dailies but far worse raid structure, release, and pvp. Cata is less then stellar with only one patch zone of very un rewarding dailies for anyone who kept up with even the easiest 5 mans, and obviously WoD had next to nothing to do as we all know.
    Professional glass cannon since 2004. I live and die a mage.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Yeah such a peak that it had the largest pre WoD sub drop that 4.3 additions (transmog and lfr) stopped
    The drop can be entirely attributed to the fact that prior to Cataclysm, WoW was the game to be playing. It was at its peak popularity during WotLK, and there were plenty of casual people who jumped on the bandwagon to kill Arthas...then Cataclysm hit, the story seems to have reached a natural end, and suddenly the game is challenging. You can't just faceroll your way through everything anymore, so yes, everyone that was just playing the popular game at the time decided it was too much effort and quit.

    4.0 introduced two new playable races, five new zones (eight if you want to include Kezan, Lost Isles and Gilneas), revamped literally the entire world, and had a tonne of fun and challenging dungeons. Yes, I think it was the peak of WoW. Cataclysm as a whole was a pretty dodgy expansion (and 4.3 was rubbish outside of transmog, come on), but 4.0 was the biggest, most significant update the game has ever seen.
    The Naaru may not have forgotten the Draenei, but Blizzard sure as hell has.

  19. #119
    Since it's a Framework, I can only go with Wrath... Far enough back before the game became a bloated mess, but not so far back as to still be somewhat casual friendly.

  20. #120
    Stood in the Fire TotalSyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    We're playing the definitive version of WoW...

    Next thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This "We" and "Us" stuff is getting old. Its an attempt at implying that most people agree with you, and that anyone who has a different opinion, is in the minority. Speak for yourself, not "we" and "us".

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