Personal loot and gearing up your raid

[kooz]

There's far better ways to get shards than shading loot that could have better use elsewhere.

there seem to be always better ways

not right at the beginning of the expansion. you're thinking different terms.

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In parallel, Blizzard is also working on removing all secondary stats (weight reduced, Mastery scrapped to death being now a Versatility number 2, I wouldn't be surprised if they straight removed them all in 9.0 tbh), so the highest ilvl will now be the best item for you, whatever its stats are.

What a lovely game it becomes. Loot, equip, don't even look at stats.

otherwise you'd have to check your addon or loot council might hinder the raid for 20min

focus on fight mechanics, you'll get loot whatever you get

[Onikaroshi]

there seem to be always better ways

not right at the beginning of the expansion. you're thinking different terms.

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otherwise you'd have to check your addon or loot council might hinder the raid for 20min

focus on fight mechanics, you'll get loot whatever you get

So that's what delusional loot whoring looks like, thanks for that.

One shard is worth more than someone else's bis, good joke. Have fun in whatever world you live in

[kooz]

So that's what delusional loot whoring looks like, thanks for that.

One shard is worth more than someone else's bis, good joke. Have fun in whatever world you live in

Well, I live in many different worlds. One of those worlds tells me that pretty soon you'll see what bis enchant means now.

[Ophenia]

otherwise you'd have to check your addon or loot council might hinder the raid for 20min

focus on fight mechanics, you'll get loot whatever you get

But min-maxing is always an important part of PvE in MMORPGs, stuffing as well. Now WoW's itemization summarizes as "I shall take the highest ilvl available, I don't give a damn if that's Crit-Mastery or Haste-Versatility, it's ilvl 350 vs ilvl 345, so it wins".
That's ... boring

The oversimplification they've paved since the last few years is frightening. Reforging gone, Gems/Enchants 80% gone, Secondary stats 80% gone, Mastery not far from being gone too (as it's now a glorified Versatility, 95% chance one of those 2 stats is removed next expac), now even loot trading is gone. Dahell.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

We do care, because that 5 ilvl upgrade is barely anything compared to 35. It doesn't matter RIGHT NOW because it'll get replaced 1 hr into BfA in 2 weeks, but its freaking stupid that I can't give something that is either not an upgrade or barely an upgrade to someone who it would be a huge upgrade for. Compounding that, Azerite gear being untradeable is the most pants on head stupid thing I've heard of.

I disagree. By far one of the best changes Blizzard has made to the game.

[Floopa]

But min-maxing is always an important part of PvE in MMORPGs, stuffing as well. Now WoW's itemization summarizes as "I shall take the highest ilvl available, I don't give a damn if that's Crit-Mastery or Haste-Versatility, it's ilvl 350 vs ilvl 345, so it wins".

if you think this you are bad at the game.

[Tiwack]

If you don't like master loot, then don't raid in guilds that use master loot. Why does the choice have to be removed to satisfy immature players who aren't capable of making an adult decision?

Because blizzard would like to have them keep playing instead of them getting butt-hurt and quit the game entirely. This game was never targeted towards adults.

[Ophenia]

if you think this you are bad at the game.

Starting from 280 item level, which is the gear that we will obtain in Battle for Azeroth from quests, dungeons, and raids, secondary stats increase at a rate of around ~9% more secondaries per 15 item level. However, that amount starts decreasing from that point onwards. Starting at 280 item level, all the way to almost 500 item level (which Battle for Azeroth gear probably won't reach), your secondary stats will grow linearly, meaning you receive a fixed amount of secondary stats for a certain item level difference.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=282185/b...caling-changes

Blizzard stated they want the higher ilvl item to be actually better for you, whatever its secondaries are. Trying to find the blue post/interview about that.

[Floopa]

Blizzard stated they want the higher ilvl item to be actually better for you, whatever its secondaries are. Trying to find the blue post/interview about that.

okay, but you've forgotten 2 important rules:
1) blizzard are incompetent
2) blizzard are really fucking incompetent

you are right that their goal is that ilvl trumps everything, however in practice (at least later on in the expansion) this will not be the case.

the only way primary stat can continue to be the best stat (as we get further and further into the expansion) is it primary stat remains a static increase. this isn't the case though, going from 500 > 600 agility is a bigger gain of dps than going from 5000 > 5100 agility. however going from 1% versatility to 2% versatility is a 1% dps gain, just like going from 99% versatility to 100% versatility is a 1% dps gain. for this reason, secondary stats will eventually trump primary stats. not only this, but in a world where secondary stats are rarer, the importance of them becomes ever more prevalent.

[frogbound]

Can I just quickly chime in and say that most mythic raiding guild that use Masterloot and a Loot Council aren't the ones that treat people unfair in the first place.
Most of these guilds have established rules and everyone who joins the guild has to agree to the terms laid out infront of them.
I personally had two guilds with ridiculous ideas about loot and trial times (3 Months of trial time aka. 12 weeks of raiding - LOL) and I said no.

Now the problem comes from mediocre guilds that usually farm NHC and progress through HC. These people are all kinds of crazy and try to immitade and emulate mythic raiding guilds.
They try to force their members to be mythic raiders and enforce rules that doesn't make sense. The next thing is PuGs. Sometimes PuG leaders are the biggest dirtbags this game has ever seen. I have seen people swap from Grouploot or Personal Loot to Masterloot during the pull timer - no one noticed, boss died and they ninjad the shit out of the loot, left the raid and transferred servers or changed their name instantly.

These people exist and I agree with Blizzard that Personal Loot only is a means to combat that.

The mythic raiding scene is a non-factor in their thought progress because the scene has been hurting for a few expansions now, it is gradually becoming smaller and smaller.
On EU mythic raiding on Alliance side is almost impossible. Most guilds faction changed to horde just because the recruitment pool looks more promising.

Mythic raiders are the top 1% in WoW. It is a mistake to cater too much to them. They are the majority of the vocal minority though.
They are the ones that are invested enough to find information outside of the game, to run the numbers, to test stuff and to overall be more skillful at the game.
We basically know what we do, we talk about changes and discuss them. We are invested enough to be able to predict what kind of effect certain changes have on the game and we try to tell Blizzard about it.
The only problem we have is: We do not have the Data. Blizzard does. Blizzard knows exactly how high of a percentage Personal Loot only affects negatively and how many it benefits.
They concluded the negative effects for Mythic Guilds are not worth it to warrant keeping Master Looter so they are trying it out for BfA.
As soon as they realize it doesn't really work like they thought, they will introduce change.
Why don't we just sit back, relax and see how this thing turns out?


Maybe it isn't all that black or white. Let's just enjoy the game without worrying about who the heck burned what tree or who and what loot I or you get.
In the end it is now in our hands to work with what we have and make the best out of it, isn't it?

Big changes happen every 2 years - deal with it.

[Usernameforforums]

Because you were in a shit guild everyone has to suffer? cool.

Yes. Suffer and get your own loot.

[Ophenia]

The next thing is PuGs. Sometimes PuG leaders are the biggest dirtbags this game has ever seen. I have seen people swap from Grouploot or Personal Loot to Masterloot during the pull timer - no one noticed, boss died and they ninjad the shit out of the loot, left the raid and transferred servers or changed their name instantly.

But this problem was solved a few years ago by forcing PersonalLoot if not a guild-based group already. Ninja looting does not exist anymore, as it can't physically exist.

The literal only explanation we had for the removal of Master Loot was "There is a growing number of groups using Personal Loot - we'll remove Master Loot then, as you don't like it anymore", while the increase of Personal Loot was just because they forced it for PUGs.

[kamuimac]

So that's what delusional loot whoring looks like, thanks for that.

One shard is worth more than someone else's bis, good joke. Have fun in whatever world you live in

Ofc it is. Stop caring for loot that doesnt belong to you. This is why Blizzard should make all loot non tradable do elitest people stop think that they have rights to other people's loot

[frogbound]

But this problem was solved a few years ago by forcing PersonalLoot if not a guild-based group already. Ninja looting does not exist anymore, as it can't physically exist.

The literal only explanation we had for the removal of Master Loot was "There is a growing number of groups using Personal Loot - we'll remove Master Loot then, as you don't like it anymore", while the increase of Personal Loot was just because they forced it for PUGs.

Well maybe they wanted to say Guildgroups and not groups in General.
I know my casual hc progress guild swapped to personal loot during legion because loot council was too much work and people started sobbing because of it.

I don't mind, we were shit and funneling gear would not have helped. At all.

[kamuimac]

okay, but you've forgotten 2 important rules:
1) blizzard are incompetent
2) blizzard are really fucking incompetent

you are right that their goal is that ilvl trumps everything, however in practice (at least later on in the expansion) this will not be the case.

the only way primary stat can continue to be the best stat (as we get further and further into the expansion) is it primary stat remains a static increase. this isn't the case though, going from 500 > 600 agility is a bigger gain of dps than going from 5000 > 5100 agility. however going from 1% versatility to 2% versatility is a 1% dps gain, just like going from 99% versatility to 100% versatility is a 1% dps gain. for this reason, secondary stats will eventually trump primary stats. not only this, but in a world where secondary stats are rarer, the importance of them becomes ever more prevalent.

If you have no idea on how gear scaling in bfa looks like just stop talking. It wont be 600 to 500 in later tiers IT will be 600 Maint stat to 100 secondary due to almost flat scaling of secondaries. Just check the changes first then talk. The gain wont be 1 percent of desirable secondary IT will be 0,1 percent. You are living in world that is gone

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They are ‘ready’ because they want to be on the top but dont like going extraudinary lenghts for it. Many others are happy to do, what they can, to get extra advantage. That includes people like method as well as people from my guild(to a lesser extend as we cant dedicate the same amount of time, because we dont have wow as our money income.) Same with split raids. Exorsus are happy how they wont have to do split raids, because they think split raids are dead, meanwhile method confirmed they will still do that, so Exorsus are in for a surprise(if they still believe split raids wont be a thing)

And those people who do care needs to be driven away and gone from game as they have been affecting negatively community for years with toxicity and abuse they spread in game

[JackWest]

If you have no idea on how gear scaling in bfa looks like just stop talking. It wont be 600 to 500 in later tiers IT will be 600 Maint stat to 100 secondary due to almost flat scaling of secondaries. Just check the changes first then talk. The gain wont be 1 percent of desirable secondary IT will be 0,1 percent. You are living in world that is gone

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And those people who do care needs to be driven away and gone from game as they have been affecting negatively community for years with toxicity and abuse they spread in game

And we are back to the screeching.(exactly the nonsence you repeat over and over again. Yes, i call it nonsence because claiming good players shouldnt be playing is as retarded as it can get). Do you honestly not get tired of trolling!?

P.S. in the first post you quote the guy is talking how things will look later into the expansion. You argue that your data(which is from beta and beta o ly includes not even first patch) is showing the opposite, when in fact your data doesnt even apply to the topic

Tip: maybe if you spend as much time actually playing the game, as in topics telling people how they should be punished for someone else’s lack of responsibility, you wouldnt be seeing so much toxicity

[Onikaroshi]

Ofc it is. Stop caring for loot that doesnt belong to you. This is why Blizzard should make all loot non tradable do elitest people stop think that they have rights to other people's loot

If you would bother reading ANY part of the convo before that, I was referring to giving away MY loot. I don't really care what loot I get at this point, but I feel horrible when I am forced to shard or vendor loot that could benefit someone else thanks to arbitrary loot rules.

[Deleted]

wrong. don't misinterpret Exorsus and show the quote.

Literally pointless to argue with you about it.
It is very clear to anyone with a brain that exorsus likes the pl change due to the reduce in time spent and splits needed.

If you cant grasp that concept then you honestly should not talk about it,at all.

Some topguilds like it for the exact reason of reducing the need of splits but every single one of those guilds would favor ml over pl any day of the week if we are talking only about the system and not with how much work it is connected.

Having the power to decide who/what class to gear is insanely powerful but sadly connected to A LOT of work.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If you have no idea on how gear scaling in bfa looks like just stop talking. It wont be 600 to 500 in later tiers IT will be 600 Maint stat to 100 secondary due to almost flat scaling of secondaries. Just check the changes first then talk. The gain wont be 1 percent of desirable secondary IT will be 0,1 percent. You are living in world that is gone

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And those people who do care needs to be driven away and gone from game as they have been affecting negatively community for years with toxicity and abuse they spread in game

Exactly. So many people in this game work to progress though content but it seems only a select handful at the top of certain guilds feel like all of the rewards belong to them. That everything earned is theirs to hand out. Are some of these people good and do it right? Sure of course and I am sad they have to suffer. I get the feeling that the majority was the other way or this change wouldn't have happened. Of course people in the good situations have easy way out to just scream "just leave" or "get good" because they are in the position of advantage. Which in itself is a selfish and negative approach which has me wondering their sincerity. Has me thinking how else they use a position of advantage in a guild to maybe get a little extra something something. That is also the only real reason to still be kicking and screaming about this. The good guilds are working on how to deal with how it is. The people that were likely dicks are worried about what they are going to do now that just being a dick in a good position isn't going to be GG for them on the loot drops.

[Floopa]

Exactly. So many people in this game work to progress though content but it seems only a select handful at the top of certain guilds feel like all of the rewards belong to them. That everything earned is theirs to hand out. Are some of these people good and do it right? Sure of course and I am sad they have to suffer. I get the feeling that the majority was the other way or this change wouldn't have happened. Of course people in the good situations have easy way out to just scream "just leave" or "get good" because they are in the position of advantage. Which in itself is a selfish and negative approach which has me wondering their sincerity. Has me thinking how else they use a position of advantage in a guild to maybe get a little extra something something. That is also the only real reason to still be kicking and screaming about this. The good guilds are working on how to deal with how it is. The people that were likely dicks are worried about what they are going to do now that just being a dick in a good position isn't going to be GG for them on the loot drops.

you do realise "the good guilds" are hindered by this change for 1 whole tier (uldir), after which their ilvl will = heroic of the next tier and they will freely be able to trade loot among their raid group?

the personal loot change really harms mid level mythic guilds who have scumbags who will do anything to get loot. anyone in a top end guild knows and understands dps > tank > healer gearing priority.