Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Malaky]

Luke: I can't believe it.
Yoda: this is why you fail.

it couldn't be any more cut and dry.

"Believe in yourself" is standard motivational speech 1:1.
Not sure why you're seeing some immensely deep meaning in this.

It has nothing to do with Disney as I've also been siting the EU which was made before Disney had any thing to do with starwars.
But if you want to try and justify your fanfic/head canon go ahead ill stick with the actual universe.

That's the fun part.
I *am* sticking to the actual universe: the first 6 movies.

You're not.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"Believe in yourself" is standard motivational speech 1:1.
Not sure why you're seeing some immensely deep meaning in this.

There is no deep meaning behind it yoda means exactly what he says he explains flatly why luke fails in the simplest means possible.

That's the fun part.
I *am* sticking to the actual universe: the first 6 movies.

You're not.

And yet even by that metric your wrong on the most basic stuff.

[eschatological]

H

I always assumed it took them months to track down Han's location and concoct a plan to save him. The movie clearly signs us viewers that time has passed.
It was mostly bragging to be fair, he was no Jedi Master and their plan was rocky at best in execution.

Why would they need to track him? They knew he went with a bounty hunter, they knew he had a bounty on him from Jabba. And Jabba happened to be on Tattooine, a planet Luke was intimately familiar with.


Moreover, they had no reason to believe Jabba would have kept him alive as a wall decoration. So they explicitly had a reason to hurry.

[Malaky]

There is no deep meaning behind it yoda means exactly what he says he explains flatly why luke fails in the simplest means possible.

So you agree it's just a motivational speech. Great.

And yet even by that metric your wrong on the most basic stuff.

/yawn

At some point this barking of yours becomes just boring. Provide bite for this claim, or quit it already. It's getting sad.

[Malaky]

Why would they need to track him? They knew he went with a bounty hunter, they knew he had a bounty on him from Jabba. And Jabba happened to be on Tattooine, a planet Luke was intimately familiar with.
Moreover, they had no reason to believe Jabba would have kept him alive as a wall decoration. So they explicitly had a reason to hurry.

Because the movie clearly signs us readers that some time has passed, mostly with Luke's visible changes in attire and demeanor.
For whatever reason, it took them time to locate Jabba's and Han's location, enough for Luke to grow as a person and as a Jedi.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So you agree it's just a motivational speech. Great.



/yawn

At some point this barking of yours becomes just boring. Provide bite for this claim, or quit it already. It's getting sad.

The "bite" as you put it is every single reply I've made to you just look at you saying yoda doesn't explain any thing when he explains why luke fails in a way a child could understand.

[Zaktar]

It took them time to infiltrate, not locate. Most of Luke’s time was spent crafting his new lightsaber.

Yeah presumably though I don't think there is a new official account for that time? Shadows of the Empire could have been brought into the fold, it was a decent story and fills the gap in reasonably well. Alas.

- - - Updated - - -

He wants a 30 minute scene of exposition saying some people are instinctively better at shit than others.

Yeah the hoops to justify someone's sour grapes are entertaining to watch.

I'm still looking forward to this last film. Don't have high expectations, but those things will burn you every time.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He wants a 30 minute scene of exposition saying some people are instinctively better at shit than others.

Nan he'd say that doesn't count because it wouldn't agree with him.

[Malaky]

The "bite" as you put it is every single reply I've made to you

Lol what's this, your newest fanfiction?

just look at you saying yoda doesn't explain any thing when he explains why luke fails in a way a child could understand.

He "explains" that doubt is bad and counter to success. New stuff, huh.

That literally applies to anything, not sure why you're considering it only about the Force.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Lol what's this, your newest fanfiction?

If reality is fanfic to you then sure.

[Jastall]

If you want to get to technical Luke doesn't blow up the Death Star all by himself he receives timely assists from both Obi Wan, Han Solo & his other Xwing Squadmates who die in the trench.

In the same way that Rey variously gets help from Poe and his pilot mates, Finn, Han, Chewie, even Ren himself that one time.

Luke's still the one that blows up the Death Star at the end of the day.

[Malaky]

If reality is fanfic to you then sure.

Ahahaha "my headcanon is reality". Sure, buddy. Carry on.

Still waiting for that bite though. Don't think I haven't realized you're trying to obfuscate your lack of evidence.

[George Costanza]

Anyone else not surprised at the hints for boba in the mandalorian?

[s_bushido]

Luke also always learns from his failures, but Rey has never had a failure to learn from.

You say this, but what has she actually accomplished?

Escaping from some stormtroopers and defeating an already-injured Kylo in TFA? Moving a bunch of rocks in TLJ? Do either of these compare to blowing up the Empire's superweapon in your very first outing? Because as far as I remember, it was Poe who blew up the Starkiller Base while she and Finn were getting their asses handed to them in the forest...

[Malaky]

You say this, but what has she actually accomplished?

Escaping from some stormtroopers and defeating an already-injured Kylo in TFA? Moving a bunch of rocks in TLJ? Do either of these compare to blowing up the Empire's superweapon in your very first outing? Because as far as I remember, it was Poe who blew up the Starkiller Base while she and Finn were getting their asses handed to them in the forest...

All Luke did was nail a small hitbox with a missile. Standard stuff for force sensitives, and it took him two movies and years of training to start displaying actual force powers.
It took Rey 4 days to do the same and more, together with defeating a Sith apprentice who trained under both Luke and a Sith Lord.

Imagine if Luke defeated Maul straight out of Tatooine. He would've been pure Gary Stu territory, and so is Rey.

[s_bushido]

It took Rey 4 days to do the same and more, together with defeating a Sith apprentice who trained under both Luke and a Sith Lord.

Imagine if Luke defeated Maul straight out of Tatooine. He would've been pure Gary Stu territory, and so is Rey.

lol

We're comparing Kylo Ren to Darth Maul now? I guess it would be slightly more believable if it was the version of Maul right after he'd been cut in half and fell down a pipe...

But speaking of Maul, does that mean padawan Obi-Wan was a Mary Sue for defeating a Sith Lord Maul single-handedly where his fully trained master could not? I can never figure out which feats of force use and martial prowess you people will find acceptable.

[Malaky]

lol

We're comparing Kylo Ren to Darth Maul now? I guess it would be slightly more believable if it was the version of Maul right after he'd been cut in half and fell down a pipe...

But speaking of Maul, does that mean padawan Obi-Wan was a Mary Sue for defeating a Sith Lord Maul single-handedly where his fully trained master could not? I can never figure out which feats of force use and martial prowess you people will find acceptable.

Maul felt acceptable since Obi-Wan was already a trained and talented Jedi who capitalized off Maul's lowering his guard thinking he had won already. Maul's defeat was half hubris half Obi-wan's surprise talent.

Nobody's comparing Kylo Ren to Maul, the point is "imagine if a complete scrub went against a trained sith and won in a lightsaber duel", which is what Rey did.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ahahaha "my headcanon is reality". Sure, buddy. Carry on.

Still waiting for that bite though. Don't think I haven't realized you're trying to obfuscate your lack of evidence.

Evidence has been provided you ignore it.

[s_bushido]

Nobody's comparing Kylo Ren to Maul, the point is "imagine if a complete scrub went against a trained sith and won in a lightsaber duel", which is what Rey did.

She wasn't able to do anything more than get toyed with and pushed around like Finn had been until she embraced the force. Exactly like Luke wasn't able to sink the shot on the Death Star until he did the same.

It's not even a little subtle...

[Endus]

Imagine if Luke defeated Maul straight out of Tatooine. He would've been pure Gary Stu territory, and so is Rey.

And when Rey runs into Kylo the first time in TFA, he paralyzes her with the Force, reads her mind despite her trying (and failing) to resist, knocks her out, and takes her prisoner.

People claiming Rey never failed have literally not watched these films, or weren't paying attention when they did. This isn't some minor scene, it's a major point in the story.

Failing and eventually overcoming that failure is not the same thing as never failing. If it were, then Luke getting his hand cut off isn't a "failure" either, because he A> escapes Vader, and B> gets a mechanical hand that causes him precisely no loss in function.

- - - Updated - - -

Nobody's comparing Kylo Ren to Maul, the point is "imagine if a complete scrub went against a trained sith and won in a lightsaber duel", which is what Rey did.

You're ignoring that Kylo Ren was shot in the gut with a bowcaster moments before that fight. He's grievously wounded and bleeding all over the snow before the two even start fighting. Bowcasters hit hard enough to knock people flying through the air; they're way more powerful than regular blasters. And Ren didn't block the shot; he didn't see it coming at all, and took it right in the gut.

Even then, he holds his own against Rey. She hits him a couple times, knocks him down, and runs away. There's no resolution in that fight, no firm victory.