Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Doesn't compare to the training we actually see in Empire.
And every scene of it, with Yoda in particular, is quote-worthy, and iconic.

Not a fair comparison I suppose, but most wanted more of that sort of thing.

no not comparable but she did train more then just the 2 days in TLJ. not that it matters because all she needed to do was make an X apparently.

[Xath]

Essentially, or perhaps some plant medicine.

That would explain a lot

[Endus]

I'm more upset with the "kill me and you'll become a Sith" storyline. Dude, the Jedi have been trying to kill Sith forever, why suddenly is it this whole thing where she becomes the supreme evil if she pulls it off? You're saying that if Yoda had killed Palpy in Episode 3, he'd automatically become a Sith?

"Suddenly"?

It's literally what Palpatine was egging Luke on to do in RotJ.

It also was not centered around the act of killing itself. It had to do with her doing so out of anger and hatred. That was the key point. He explicitly said so. And it's why he got so worried when she gave over on all that. That was the moment she could finally hear all the Jedi. That was what changed.

Seriously, this stuff is explicitly shown in the film, and it's the entire central point of that scene. Not sure how you could possibly miss it.

[Asphyx22]

Just saw it a second time.

It was easier to absorb everything after another viewing, and I enjoyed it more than I did the first. There are still things I dislike that they could have done better. I don't think it's as bad as some people say. That's just my opinion and I respect that people have different tastes, though.

Definitely think Disney should invest in road-maps for future Star Wars trilogy films lol.

[Endus]

It's still dumb. Before you wrote that I edited to say that I know it was in RotJ too. I don't get why she couldn't just be like, ok, i'm not doing this out of hatred, but it's time for you to die cause you suck, and then kill him. Or how he can count on her being angry. It's just silly nonsense plot.

That's literally exactly what happened.

It just took her some time to pack away her hate and anger and fear. Again, literally the whole point of the scene.

It's not a "nonsense plot". It's the whole distinction between Jedi and Sith. It's as "silly" as the rest of Star Wars. I'll agree that the philosophy is shallow, but this was completely in character with prior films, especially the OT.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." and all that.

Also core to the entire final fight with Luke, Vader, and Palpatine. Where exactly the same thing played out, with Luke.

[MrLachyG]

the movie was enjoyable but nothing special. thought Rey might be a Skywalker up until she went all Thor, God of Thunder on the transport. after that it became fairly obvious who she really was.

[LilSaihah]

Rey didn't kill Palpatine because he's a spooky sith ghost who can only soul transfer if he dies. She won't metaphorically become the Sith if she kills Palpatine, she will literally be controlled by Palpatine if she does. It's the same plot as KOTFE/KOTET.

[Endus]

She didn't kill him, she deflected his attacks. So it's not "literally exactly what happened". I feel like we're in another of those conversations where you're attempting to make my opinion sound stupid, or talk to me like I'm a five year old, and it's really frustrating.

You're stating things that are completely at odds with what happened in the actual film.

I'm simply pointing that out.

Rey didn't hit Palpatine with a lightsaber, but she did kill him. It was her deliberate action that brought about his direct demise.

The whole thing... your use of italics in every single post as if your points carry some special weight when saying obvious things, all of it.

The italics are nothing but a way to apply emphasis. Since you can't convey tone of voice with text, it's a shortcut that provides some sense of that. Nothing more.

[LilSaihah]

Yeah kill attribution would probably be more fairly placed on Palpatine's shoulders. All reflected damage is self-damage. If he'd just stopped the lightning he would've been fine.

Why does he keep using lightning, anyway? Use force crush dude.

[Zaktar]

You're stating things that are completely at odds with what happened in the actual film.

I'm simply pointing that out.

Rey didn't hit Palpatine with a lightsaber, but she did kill him. It was her deliberate action that brought about his direct demise.


The italics are nothing but a way to apply emphasis. Since you can't convey tone of voice with text, it's a shortcut that provides some sense of that. Nothing more.

He killed himself. If he had stopped attacking, his attacks would not have been reflected back toward him. She was just defending herself. The question, I think is, why couldn't she just center herself, think about her higher goals, and decapitate him in the name of peace? Clearly there was no way to stop him without killing him, he was too powerful, so presumably even a Jedi like say Yoda would have had to kill him, but wouldn't have opened himself to the dark side in the process.

To me the answer to the question is that she could have, it just didn't happen that way, she had a lot of unresolved emotions in her heart and if she'd struck him down it would have been in anger. The film has a lot of problems but that moment was more or less reasonable. Kind of wish she had ultimately killed him, because his self-kill was pretty silly, but oh well. Stupid was the film's only real theme.

[Treeba]

This movie was entertaining, if silly. And while there's a lot to say about it, to me the highlight is that I thought it was supposed to be a tentpole for them to continue expanding the universe, and it's just... not. There's nowhere to organically go from here. And that's what you get when you hire a big name director and tell him to make the best movie he can make without worrying about the universe. I don't blame Johnson or Abrams, they were miscast.

If you mean no where to take Rey and the rest of the crew then you're right. It's kind of a dead story unless they want to conjure up a new enemy/sith from no where. Wouldn't be that hard to do or even completely unbelievable. I hope they don't, personally, as I care very little for the surviving members of the movie and have little interest in seeing their respective stories continued.

But overall star wars is a huge universe with tons of potential. I'd be perfectly happy if they just looked into completely different time periods for a few movies. Something with the entire sith empire and jedi order at war or pick any of the random stories from the EU and do something with it. We can expand the movies behind the scope of the Skywalker family tree. The Mandalorian is a good example of just looking at an entirely different aspect of the Star Wars universe. Lots of potential if they are open to exploring it.

[qwerty123456]

That's some major projecting on your part. All you have is that Rey felt she didn't need someone. There is a canon source where she worked with other scavengers because she needed help (even if she didn't admit it) ... these two things disagree with each other. It's not head canon to release that one source is her feelings and the other source is facts.

Again, Ungor is a boss ... who controls others scavengers. Ungor is the boss who looked after Rey and insured she was protected. You are going 2+2 = 3 here.

And yes, she competed against others so what?

Dude did you actually read anything? She worked with friendly scavengers Then she left them after realizing she didn't need them anymore. Where is this cannon source that has her working with people she didn't need help from anymore????

Ungor held all the food. Scavengers had jack shit. She needed stuff from Ungor she didn't need the friendly scavengers anymore and so left them. If that wasn't the case why wouldn't she still be living with them and working with them?? Anyways I'm done responding at this point as you clearly seem obsessed with your own fanfiction and not facts.

[korijenkins]

If I had to say I had one solid complaint about the film, which overall I thought was fine (and if you hated it to a point where you gave it a 0/4, you're delusional), was the characterization of Palpatine.

The sith rituals and temple don't fit him. We've never seen anything like that in his character in any of the films, nor even in the more recent comic books. I don't understand it, and would've preferred it if he was just this undead zombie villain rather than trying to do some ancient ceremony with Rey.

[Treeba]

Rey didn't hit Palpatine with a lightsaber, but she did kill him. It was her deliberate action that brought about his direct demise.

I think the important detail was she didn't do it out of anger and revenge. Key components of falling to the darkside, etc.

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Rey didn't kill Palpatine because he's a spooky sith ghost who can only soul transfer if he dies. She won't metaphorically become the Sith if she kills Palpatine, she will literally be controlled by Palpatine if she does. It's the same plot as KOTFE/KOTET.

I was thinking whoever wrote this must've played a bit of swtor.

But I don't think they were honoring that concept. I think she specifically had to succumb to her anger and desires for revenge for this ritual to work. She didn't so he couldn't possess her. Or maybe he did and we just don't know it yet. Could be the basis for future movies.

[exochaft]

What Disney needed was someone to shepherd the overall universe. Call up Brandon Sanderson, tell him to stop writing 1000 pages of fantasy a year and to come take control of the Star Wars universe. Sure his stuff is relatively bland, but it's fun, he produces a lot and he manages to have a fair amount of variety. Fits exactly what Star Wars needs.

What you're basically saying (and I agree) is that this trilogy needed the equivalent of Kevin Feige who shephards over the Marvel film universe. He's the guy that has the big bulletin board with the large central plot and the direction all the movies need to eventually go, overseeing that certain details are put into certain films to ensure continuity between all films when it comes to plot and lore. This is how Marvel has had dozens of films that all interact and lead to an overall narrative that culminated in End Game. Sure, you may have some nitpicking about various details, but overwhelmingly the key points and plot are consistent through the entire Marvel franchise.

Jump over to the new Star Wars trilogy, and it's pretty apparent that there is no singular person keeping the plot and lore points together, consistent, and/or palatable (or they're bad at it, take your pick). When it comes to Rise of Skywalker, there's certainly more continuity between this movie and TFA, and it's pretty evident that almost all of TLJ is ignored aside from various details used as mostly plot devices. Without devolving into a lengthy post, I'd say the movie was decently enjoyable, and likely the best Abrams could do with what he had and the constraints on the movie. Within this frame of reference, a lot of decisions about the movie make sense, from the crazy escalation and relevance of certain lore/plot points to how crammed the movie felt. As others have said, Rise of Skywalker feels like Abrams tried to not only ignore most of TLJ but replace it and make a "two episodes in one." If he had 4 hours of allowable runtime, I think everything could've been fleshed out and more organic. Instead, Rise of Skywalker had a bunch of moments where something out of the ordinary or new to the franchise would happen, and the characters would always be just as surprised as the audience likely was. Heck, if this was a comedy, I could see all those moments being Dead Pool 4th wall breaking moments.

If I had to rate this movie... I'd put it slightly below the worst Marvel movies in terms of entertainment. With Marvel movies, at the very least you know you'll have an entertaining time even if the movie feels generic or cookie-cutter. If Star Wars had a competent Kevin Feige at the center of it's Disney creations, I could've seen this recently trilogy being elevated to much higher entertainment level.

[Treeba]

What you're basically saying (and I agree) is that this trilogy needed the equivalent of Kevin Feige who shephards over the Marvel film universe. He's the guy that has the big bulletin board with the large central plot and the direction all the movies need to eventually go, overseeing that certain details are put into certain films to ensure continuity between all films when it comes to plot and lore. This is how Marvel has had dozens of films that all interact and lead to an overall narrative that culminated in End Game. Sure, you may have some nitpicking about various details, but overwhelmingly the key points and plot are consistent through the entire Marvel franchise.

l.

I think they announced last month he's actually going to be working on Star Wars now as well.

[Ragedaug]

I think the important detail was she didn't do it out of anger and revenge. Key components of falling to the darkside, etc.

I really enjoyed Rise of Skywalker, so just wanted to start with that so have an idea of my frame of my reference. But even in enjoying it I can admit there are parts that don't make a lot of sense or are there only to serve the progression of the story. "Kill me and you become sith" seems to be one of these. I would suspect a plethora [do you know...what a plethora is? - sorry couldn't help it] anyway, a plethora of Jedi have killed Sith over the millennia, while said Jedi were upset, and those Jedi didn't automatically become Sith.

In RotJ, it's clear to me that Palps didn't want to or expect to be "struck down" by Luke. He was goading him until Luke got mad enough to engage Vader.

Based on all other SW lore, I have no reason to believe a Sith's essence invades you when you kill them, so I have to suspend disbelief for that scene and imagine he was pulling some kind of bluff or something. Like maybe stalling her killing him by saying she would become him, even though she wouldn't.

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I think they announced last month he's actually going to be working on Star Wars now as well.

Well, the SW franchise was definitely lacking any sense of direction, so it would be cool if Feige is able to steer them in the right direction or help mentor someone who can do what he does, but for Star Wars.

[Muajin76]

I'll admit. i was somewhat disappointed how they handled the end bad guy *not giving info on what bad guy for those that haven't seen it yet* but for those that have, you'll already know.

i think they died quick like a chump ..but that's just me.

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I really enjoyed Rise of Skywalker, so just wanted to start with that so have an idea of my frame of my reference. But even in enjoying it I can admit there are parts that don't make a lot of sense or are there only to serve the progression of the story. "Kill me and you become sith" seems to be one of these. I would suspect a plethora [do you know...what a plethora is? - sorry couldn't help it] anyway, a plethora of Jedi have killed Sith over the millennia, while said Jedi were upset, and those Jedi didn't automatically become Sith.
.

Makes you wonder if JJ even did his homework and read up on the lore..or consulted Lucas on the idea for his opinion. Maybe his writers thought the idea was cool and went with it, even though it wasn't confirmed to be true. I don't know much about canon and have never heard of the idea that if you kill a sith, they transfer to whomever kills them.
plethora, haven't heard that word since the 3 amigos comedy. *would you say htat i have a plethora of pinatas?* lol

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm more upset with the "kill me and you'll become a Sith" storyline. Dude, the Jedi have been trying to kill Sith forever, why suddenly is it this whole thing where she becomes the supreme evil if she pulls it off? You're saying that if Yoda had killed Palpy in Episode 3, he'd automatically become a Sith? I mean it existed in Return of the Jedi but it was a dumb plot point there too. Rightfully ignored in the first trilogy when Obi-Wan rightfully leaves Vader assuming he's dead.

I hate the idea that the good guys defending themselves is now inherently evil and leads to them becoming irreparable bad guys. Really? Especially when they kill scores of storm troopers randomly throughout the series. How is it that this one kill is so bad?

Whatever. Bringing logic to a Star Wars lore debate is like bringing a knife to a soup eating contest. Pointless.

It’s some spirt body jumping nonsense. You could argue that palp was doing something similar with Luke in return but it was pretty clear he knew Vader would intercede and he was trying to turn Luke to the dark side not steal his body.

The whole rule of two becomes pointless if it’s just body hoping as any number of sith wouldn’t change that out come if one prime sith just keeps swapping bods.

Just plain stupid.

[A Blue Smurf]

I'll admit. i was somewhat disappointed how they handled the end bad guy *not giving info on what bad guy for those that haven't seen it yet* but for those that have, you'll already know.

i think they died quick like a chump ..but that's just me.

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Makes you wonder if JJ even did his homework and read up on the lore..or consulted Lucas on the idea for his opinion. Maybe his writers thought the idea was cool and went with it, even though it wasn't confirmed to be true. I don't know much about canon and have never heard of the idea that if you kill a sith, they transfer to whomever kills them.
plethora, haven't heard that word since the 3 amigos comedy. *would you say htat i have a plethora of pinatas?* lol

I thought the implication was that when she struck him down she would not only be giving into the dark side and her hatred (because you definitely hate people you only just found out exist) but also opening herself up to some sort of essence transfer the Palpatine was intending to perform with his real death.

Hence she would become Sith in the sense that she would become Palpatine's vessel.

The entire premise is rooted in EU lore and ancient sith ritual.