Elegy and A Good War Fully Released

[omeomorfismo]

I can understand BEs to a degree but Forsaken? Really? They're bags of bones that must stink for miles around and the novellas explicitly highlight that Night Elves have better than usual sense of smell even without counting druidic forms. Yet they can sneak up above an entire group of NEs?

It's just another instance of the sad trend of seeing NEs castrated by the narrative. Oh how the mighty have fallen since WC3 in the name of faction balance.

belmont canonically stealth in a gilneas full of worgen and hunt dogs. we can safely assume that deathstalkers have way to hide their smell...

[Ash123]

I can understand BEs to a degree but Forsaken? Really? They're bags of bones that must stink for miles around and the novellas explicitly highlight that Night Elves have better than usual sense of smell even without counting druidic forms. Yet they can sneak up above an entire group of NEs?

It's just another instance of the sad trend of seeing NEs castrated by the narrative. Oh how the mighty have fallen since WC3 in the name of faction balance.

Did you read the part when a NE try to pose as a forsaken to deceive Saurfang? (There is no magic involved given the description).

[Jastall]

belmont canonically stealth in a gilneas full of worgen and hunt dogs. we can safely assume that deathstalkers have way to hide their smell...

That isn't confirmed anywhere, and the novella mentions that the Forsaken which killed a NE captain has a breath so rancid it made the one questioning him wince.

It's not a big plot hole or anything, but the contemptuous ease with which Horde rogues walk over NE defenders on their home turf certainly seems convenient to me.

[Hyral]

I'm pretty sure a creature like that will suffer angst overload the moment it phases into existance and will be driven purely by suicidal tendencies. Question is whether it will prefer going to enemy camp to die or to throw itself from the tower onto spikes below.

Why not throw itself from a tower onto the enemy camp below. That would be more Saurfanas.

[Uthic]

Glad they showed the Night Elves doing some damage and at least getting some moments of being savage forest fighters.

[Aucald]

You are taking the unity of Alliance as a given but there is really no explanation why there is such unity in the first place except everyone in Alliance just behave in that manner.

I think the Alliance has always had a bit more uniform cohesion among its client-races than the Horde has enjoyed - the starting reputations among the factions kind of shows that I would say. The Forsaken are nigh universally mistrusted due to what they are and the legacy of their creation (the Third War, the Scourge, and the Lich King), whereas the Sin'dorei's bonds with the Horde are somewhat more distant as they're purely political as opposed to the more fraternal bonds that the Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls enjoy with one-another being among the first of the modern Horde races.

When did Greymane lost Gilneas? 4 expansions ago, which is about 8 years.
So, Genn did not cry for taking back Gilneas for 8 years, even when the opportunity was golden right after MOP.
Then suddenly everyone think (including himself) he should cry to take back this kingdom.

This is the real issue I could not understand...

The opportunity wasn't really golden right after MoP, though. Both the Alliance and Horde had taken losses in deposing Garrosh and ending his "True Horde" threat, and trying to re-take Gilneas from the occupying Forsaken would just reopen the rift that Varian and the other Alliance leaders were trying to seal at the time. Not to add that the Iron Horde invaded shortly afterward, requiring the response of both factions to ensure an even worse reprise of the First War didn't spill out of the Dark Portal again.

[Katie45]

I feel bad for horde players, there faction is always falling apart they can't even fathom the alliance being like a tight knit family. (Both the players and sylvanas lol)

[Deleted]

Did you read the part when a NE try to pose as a forsaken to deceive Saurfang? (There is no magic involved given the description).

Yea, all of the rogues are described as using shadow magic.
"He straightened, and the deceptive shadow he had wrapped around himself fell away." This is when Tavar just tried to demonstrate to Delaryn how he could appear different without an actual disguise. (In 'Elegy', part four)

[Stolberg]

I don't need to be a master chef to know when the toast it burnt.

Constantly writing the alliance as super good guys who never make mistakes while the Horde falls over itself while twirling their evil mustaches is terrible writing. That much should be obvious to EVERYONE who's even marginally paying attention.

Excuse me, but have you read any of the books? The burning of Teldrassil is literally Anduin's fault, he's the one taking for granted the horde is sending an army to Silithus, he asks Tyrande and Malf to send ships with sentinels to Silithus, exposing the whole north of Kalimdor, are you guys actually insane? How is this any biased towards the Alliance? The horde just burned our tree...!? The Horde is falling because their leader is a psychopath, who wishes nothing but harm towards any race of the horde, placing her needs above all the other members of the Horde, including the Forsaken.

[seleri]

Throughout the whole story there is not a single indication that Sylvanas raises any fallen, friends or foes.

Actually I thought she would raise the blood elf rogue but it did not happen.

I thought that was coming too. I know there's no indication she was raising the dead and it doesn't necessarily have to be Sylvanas that brings them back in some form. I dunno, it just feels like we haven't seen the last of Lorash or Delaryn. The last scenes we see them in felt more like they were being set up for something else instead of sending them off.

[Ash123]

The opportunity wasn't really golden right after MoP, though. Both the Alliance and Horde had taken losses in deposing Garrosh and ending his "True Horde" threat, and trying to re-take Gilneas from the occupying Forsaken would just reopen the rift that Varian and the other Alliance leaders were trying to seal at the time. Not to add that the Iron Horde invaded shortly afterward, requiring the response of both factions to ensure an even worse reprise of the First War didn't spill out of the Dark Portal again.

Why not mention it during the trial of Garrosh? Why not ask Varian to consider a peace treaty regarding the status of Gilneas (Horde is in a weak status then)?
Greymane would have the time and energy to hunt Sylvanas when a worse threat was looming over Azeroth but for some reason he did not bother to bring up his kingdom for 8 years.

I really do not think there could be a coherent explanation on the thinking pattern of Greymane (as well as other characters) except the simplest reason "the plot demands it".

- - - Updated - - -

Yea, all of the rogues are described as using shadow magic.
"He straightened, and the deceptive shadow he had wrapped around himself fell away." This is when Tavar just tried to demonstrate to Delaryn how he could appear different without an actual disguise. (In 'Elegy', part four)

I see, that explains a lot.
Though it is still beyond my understanding how Alliance could place spy everywhere in Horde capital even with the help of shadow magic....
I do not know if that is because Alliance has too many spies or orgrimmar is just a tiny village...
The level of espionage shown in these two novels is insane

[Aquinan]

What a fucking chump

FFTY

10chars

[-aiko-]

Just finished reading them both. I'm a bit of an emotional wreck right now, Elegy was fucking soulcrushing, so I'm having trouble gathering my thoughts. So for now just some quick notes:

- I thought both were well written.
- A Good War definitely gave some insight into the motivations behind the Horde starting a war, but I still felt they were weak.
- I cried a lot.
- I know a lot of Horde (and Alliance) players won't actually read these or, if they do, will only read A Good War. So there will always be those edgelords who support Sylvanas because "fuck the Alliance" and "fuck Nightelves". But to the players who actually read both, understand what happened, and still support Sylvanas? I legitimately think you are a psychopath and we can never be friends.
- Please for the love of fucking God show more of this lore in-game, Blizzard. Nightelves in Elegy were shown to be fierce, brave fighters while in-game we have these empty husks. Take this as an opportunity to flesh out the in-game world.

[Caaethil]

Delaryn doesn't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Darnassus. There everything is soft and smooth.

That's all I've gotten from Elegy so far. That and Nathanos is hilarious.

[pyro989898]

A poorly written story , as one of the major plot doesn't make sense
Sylvanas is aware of "Honor" standard of orc. Saurfang was not in favor of war from start but later chooses to follow Sylvanas order. When Saurfang stabbed Malfurion from back he did told to Sylvanas that he did dishonor thing.
When major focus of attack on Teldrassil was to kill Malfurion , why did Sylvanas simply walked away(as their was nothing too important that required her immediate attention ) ,when it was clear Saurfang may not kill Malfurion.
Yet end ,Sylvanas says she had to burn Teldrassil because Saurfang didn't kill Malfurion.

[Deleted]

......


I see, that explains a lot.
Though it is still beyond my understanding how Alliance could place spy everywhere in Horde capital even with the help of shadow magic....
I do not know if that is because Alliance has too many spies or orgrimmar is just a tiny village...
The level of espionage shown in these two novels is insane

I agree, it was an insane amount of spying. Although at least in part it was explained with the Horde guards being somewhat at ease and wanting to celebrate the victory over the Legion more than actually guarding anything. ^^
And Shaw didn't quite like it, because he thought they were too many.
I really liked the part with Renzik.

[Zulkhan]

I think it's kind of embarassing how these two novellas are more interesting and legitimately better written than Before the Storm was.

Alas poor Lorash.


c'est la vie

Damn. I almost grew attached to that little sucker, in the...well, 5 minutes of questing I did with him.

I wouldn't put much stock in Saurfang's self-reflection abilities during these moments. Rationally the burning is absolutely not his fault and he tried to stop it.

And Sylvanas's plan failed because it was bad. She banked on a factor she could not control - Greymane's behavior, when surrounded by cooler heads no less - and the Night Elves collapsing in front of her onslaught when they previously weathered a treacherous Azshara and a Legion invasion far more vicious than the one we just experienced. She badly evaluated her enemies and her shift of strategy made things worse for everyone involved. The Horde won a somewhat improbable tactical victory (really, in 10k years nobody discovered the magic tunnel Saurfang used?) but Sylvanas blundered and ruined it with a strategic idiocy that set her entire plans literally aflame so all they have to show for it is a burning tree and Night Elf lands that will be lit up in an endless guerrilla war.

Not really. Lore says this invasion was the worst.

To me, this is a version of "opening a 3rd eye" to someone. In this case, that someone is Saurfang. Also, Garrosh would never talk like this to one of his "generals".

Well, Garrosh's main weakness was his exaggerated pride and arrogance, that's why he never cared to build any kind of consensus and rather preferred to surround himself with yes-men, none of them having a brain of note except Malkorok (who himself wasn't exactly a genius either).

[Magnagarde]

And I remember very well that I and my first Forsaken were once loyal Alliance citizens. We died for that banner, and our reward was to be hunted as vermin. I believe that there will be no permanent peace with the Alliance—not unless we win it on the battlefield on our terms. And believing that, answer this, Saurfang: what use is delaying the inevitable?”

When she was formally Alliance, she never fought under the banner, but remained in Quel'thalas. When she died, she fought under her own banner and in Quel'thalas only(which at the time wasn't in the Alliance anyway). It's funny because Saurfang doesn't know this, so he soaks the lie up.

[Deleted]

Except, Anduin is wrong in the book. He assumes Genn would have a problem with him aiding the Night Elves and Genn quickly reprimands him for assuming wrongly. How exactly is that circle-jerking? Tyrande points out how young he is and praises that he's willing to listen to those far more experienced? I know people like to think Anduin is painted as some guy who comes along and says "worry not, immortal, ancient Elf demi-god, the humans are here to fix things for you". That doesn't happen, stop acting like it does.

Because most players commenting here don't actually give a flying fuck about the lore. They just like to bitch and complain about things they don't understand because they can't be fucked to read. And thus they blame it on bad writing whenever a character get's any form of nuance or starts developping away from the one dimensional cardboard cutout they were previously.

"This is bad writing, because this character is being stupid" - No, this character made an error in judgement and has flaws like an actual person, infallible characters are boring.
"Saurfang is to blame for his crying" - So a character cannot have an internal conflict that makes him more than a one dimensional meme?
"Greymane is now a wtf good guy" - Because he acknowledges on that spot that infighting is worse for the Alliance and that the Gilneans owe a huge debt to the Kaldorei?
Greymane actually had pretty decent development over Legion and Before the Storm, that he realized his flaws and error in judgement during Legion, but still cannot shed his hatred for Sylvanas.

I mean, people were bitching the same crap when Jaina first started turning against the Horde, because "oh no, this is not my Jainam why is she changing?"
When they fail to realize that a character has to develop and has to have a conflict (external or internal) to make them even remotely interesting. The only thing they can really say atm is that Anduin lacks depth and conflict, and therefor very bland character wise. I suspect this is because they want to focus more on Sylvans, Jaina, Saurfang and perhaps Genn over the coming expansion in terms of character development.

The biggest problems with how they handle the story thusfar is that so much stuff is left out the actual game, to the point where events in game are markedly different than those in the books. I understand maintaining a transmedia franchise is great for business, but the storytelling in general really suffers when you start splintering off core events, actions and dialogue of in-game events. I can get all behind the comics, warbringers and Before the Storm for adding extra storylines or reintroducing a character, but having these novella's essentially retread the story of the prepatch event really shows how much they fucked up the in-game part of this.

[Ashelin]

Just finished reading them both. I'm a bit of an emotional wreck right now, Elegy was fucking soulcrushing, so I'm having trouble gathering my thoughts. So for now just some quick notes:

- I thought both were well written.
- A Good War definitely gave some insight into the motivations behind the Horde starting a war, but I still felt they were weak.
- I cried a lot.
- I know a lot of Horde (and Alliance) players won't actually read these or, if they do, will only read A Good War. So there will always be those edgelords who support Sylvanas because "fuck the Alliance" and "fuck Nightelves". But to the players who actually read both, understand what happened, and still support Sylvanas? I legitimately think you are a psychopath and we can never be friends.
- Please for the love of fucking God show more of this lore in-game, Blizzard. Nightelves in Elegy were shown to be fierce, brave fighters while in-game we have these empty husks. Take this as an opportunity to flesh out the in-game world.

I agree. I was worried how the Alliance would come off when they started telling this story from our side, and I really do feel bad for the Horde players who do understand both sides, and had no interest in being the villains. Because BOTH of these stories painted the Horde in a pretty bad light, and the end of the Alliance one especially does. Because Anduin says they must stop at nothing to stop Sylvanas, not to destroy the entire Horde. So Saurfang's entire reasoning is wrong. The Alliance are unquestionably on the moral high ground in a very big way here.