Sylvanas DOES fit the Horde faction fantasy

[Nurvus]

Simple - Blizzard will crush people's dreams by showing that the Alliance can do similarly disgusting stuff.
Just wait for it.

[Wildberry]

except garrosh has started his "true horde" way before 5.4 he just didnt full on secede yet.

In what way? And how does that line up with your original claim of "kicking everyone but orcs out of 'his horde?'"

and I never said he was corrupted, but using old god powers for your own gains in very unseemly manners is a big nono.

Is it? Thrall allowed Warlocks to practice freely in Orgrimmar. Both factions worked with the Ebon Blade and Illidari, etc. What about Old Gods specifically is off-limits, assuming the wielder is in control? (Garrosh was, and Blizzard has confirmed this multiple times).

Also, don't think your attempt to backpeddle from "servant of an Old God" went unnoticed.

[shaunika123]

In what way? And how does that line up with your original claim of "kicking everyone but orcs out of 'his horde?'"


Is it? Thrall allowed Warlocks to practice freely in Orgrimmar. Both factions worked with the Ebon Blade and Illidari, etc. What about Old Gods specifically is off-limits, assuming the wielder is in control? (Garrosh was, and Blizzard has confirmed this multiple times).

Also, don't think your attempt to backpeddle from "servant of an Old God" went unnoticed.

no, I ment that, but that doesnt mean he was corrupted, because once we knocked some sense into him he dropped all that shit.
corruption to me means something permanent I guess, which is why I dont think "serving ysharj" and "Being corrupted" are the same.

and I explained in my post what he did pre 5.4 sooo yeah?

and with the old gods you're never in control, that's literally their thing.
even allera herslef said "eventually I'll get fucked by this"

[Wildberry]

no, I ment that, but that doesnt mean he was corrupted, because once we knocked some sense into him he dropped all that shit.
corruption to me means something permanent I guess, which is why I dont think "serving ysharj" and "Being corrupted" are the same

and with the old gods you're never in control, that's literally their thing.

The art sure looks like he's corrupted, but he's using the sha. Like wielding a hammer. He's in control

--Dave Kosak

Like I said, have fun arguing against canon.

and I explained in my post what he did pre 5.4 sooo yeah?

You said he started the "True Horde" prior to 5.4, that's not really an explanation. More over, you're completely ignoring that the Darkspear began to rebel in 5.1, with things really kicking off in 5.3. Those predate "They are no longer part of my Horde."

[shaunika123]

The art sure looks like he's corrupted, but he's using the sha. Like wielding a hammer. He's in control

--Dave Kosak

Like I said, have fun arguing against canon.


You said he started the "True Horde" prior to 5.4, that's not really an explanation. More over, you're completely ignoring that the Darkspear began to rebel in 5.1, with things really kicking off in 5.3. Those predate "They are no longer part of my Horde."

I mentioned putting lesser races into ghettos and killing his own people so yeah...

I'm not arguing against canon.
again, I know he wasnt "corrupted"
but thinking yhsharaj didnt have a hand in all of that seems silly to me.

[Powerogue]

They seem to be focusing on that dichotomy. The horde includes both the honorable and fair and the depraved and cruel, often within the same races. They're all just one big twisted family. Which mentality will win out? What truly is "The Horde"?

I hope the alliance gets some of this too, it could be really interesting.

[Giovaaa]

Man old horde sounds awesome compared to the abomination that we have today.

[Wildberry]

I mentioned putting lesser races into ghettos and killing his own people so yeah...

He attempted to have a dissident who threatened to assassinate him, appointed himself check on Garrosh (violating the Blood Oath), attended numerous subversive meetings, etc.

That's a far cry from "killing his own people."

And no, segregating Orgrimmar isn't "kicking non-Orcs out of the Horde," sorry.

I'm not arguing against canon.
again, I know he wasnt "corrupted"
but thinking yhsharaj didnt have a hand in all of that seems silly to me.

Yes, you are, because Blizzard literally says: "He's in control." If he's in control, he cannot be a servant of the Old Gods.

If you want to get your timelines all botched and argued against Blizzard, have at it. But you're wrong "so yeah..."

[Budong]

Well, if Sylvanas is any indication, you fight wars by turning around at the moment you have your objective in hand, taunt your obviously-conflicted executioner, and leave without making sure that the job gets done. And then overcompensate for your Bond villain mistake later.

Either you didn't read the novella or you're being intentionally obtuse. She torched the tree because Saurfang failed to execute his own plan and finish Malfurion. She was forced to burn it down, not out of spite but to give the Horde a fighting chance the rest of the war. Read the damn book and you'll understand.

[Ianus]

Simple - Blizzard will crush people's dreams by showing that the Alliance can do similarly disgusting stuff.
Just wait for it.

As Alliance i welcome some realistic development without that defensive mantra

[Haven]

pretty sure things with a beating heart are not dead

What about brain? A beheaded chicken can run around for days.

and I never said he was corrupted, but using old god powers for your own gains in very unseemly manners is a big nono.
and it never comes without a cost, yshar'j was definitely whispering sweet nothings in his ears, he was completely out of it by the time SOO was over. just look at him in his last phase lol.

Not everything has to be old god corruption. Garrosh was just like that.

[Ianus]

Garrosh just "siphoned" remnants of old gods magic

[Schmittay]

I think Sylvanas is going to realise she can't keep a hold on the majority of the Horde the way she is going. Many of the other leaders are openly upset with her actions and nothing can't come of it. Either she will split off with her Forsaken, and anyone who believes doing anything necessary to win will go with her (making for awesome new gameplay in the next expansion), or she realises that she won't be Warchief for long after many attempts to take it from her (less liekly IMO). Or maybe she knows things that we don't and there is an existential threat and she is doing what must be done for Azeroth to survive. Or she is bathshit evil. Who fuckin knows man.

[SleepsAtDay]

Either you didn't read the novella or you're being intentionally obtuse. She torched the tree because Saurfang failed to execute his own plan and finish Malfurion. She was forced to burn it down, not out of spite but to give the Horde a fighting chance the rest of the war. Read the damn book and you'll understand.

I read the novella. The plan was to capture Teldrassil and hold it hostage. That plan was Sylvannas's. End of chapter one. She lets Saurfang arrive at the plan she's already come up with.

After the stuff with Malfurion, the plan was still to take Teldrassil and hold it hostage. We get Sylvannas's thought processes up until the night elf, but up until that point, the goal is still occupation. She pitches her own plan for some reason after a conversation with the night elf. The contents of that conversation aren't covered in A Good War.

They're covered in her Warbringers though, which makes it look a lot like spite. There are memes. So many memes.

[Feanoro]

The art sure looks like he's corrupted, but he's using the sha. Like wielding a hammer. He's in control

--Dave Kosak

Then, as usual, they did a piss poor job making that clear in game.

[Deleted]

if you think sylvanas doesnt get criticism just look at this forum...

In universe. Trump's criticism comes from in universe, not from the extradimensional beings who watch us on cable.

[Budong]

I read the novella. The plan was to capture Teldrassil and hold it hostage. That plan was Sylvannas's. End of chapter one. She lets Saurfang arrive at the plan she's already come up with.

After the stuff with Malfurion, the plan was still to take Teldrassil and hold it hostage. We get Sylvannas's thought processes up until the night elf, but up until that point, the goal is still occupation. She pitches her own plan for some reason after a conversation with the night elf. The contents of that conversation aren't covered in A Good War.

They're covered in her Warbringers though, which makes it look a lot like spite. There are memes. So many memes.

I have a hard time believing you read it thoroughly when it says plain as day that Sylvanas was thinking to herself as she was giving orders to invade, of how she could inflict the wound that killing Malfurion was supposed to have done. It was during her conversation with the night elf that the answer came to her. She explained the why to Saurfang and he agreed that she was right.

"He struggled to form words. Finally, pure hatred made him spit out a condemnation. “You have damned the Horde for a thousand generations. All of us. And for what? For what?”

Her expression didn’t waver. “This was your battle. Your strategy. And your failure. Darnassus was never the prize. It was a wedge that would split the Alliance apart. It was the weapon that would destroy hope. And you, my master strategist, gave that up to spare an enemy you defeated. I have taken it back.

When they come for us, they will do so in pain, not in glory. That may be our only chance at victory now.”

He wanted to kill her. He wanted to declare mak’gora and spill her blood in front of Horde and Alliance alike.

But she was right."

[crazyfool319]

personally I have no problem with the Banshee and her undead followers. I think they make for a colorfull adition to the Horde. I have a serious problem with her overtly genocidal and murderous tendencies. She has zero regard for anyone but herself, that's not someone I want leading my faction.

Didnt she show several times that she put the horde ahead of everything else during legion? She was on the course to becoming an outright brilliant leader and blizz took her hard to the murderous side. Not that i mind, i love the new conflict. Its certainly spiced things up quite a bit. A bit sad that all the leveling done in BFA is about the trolls though.

[Syegfryed]

Didnt she show several times that she put the horde ahead of everything else during legion?

no? what ar these several times? he only show up in stormheim to do bussines with helya,not something pro-horde

She explained the why to Saurfang and he agreed that she was right.

he agree that the plan was to broke their spirits "kill hope"

in the end he knew this was not going to work, she knew too, and in fact it didn't work

Taking the tree and hostages would put the alliance in check, wining the war making then dry

- - - Updated - - -

If we're going to be the WCII Horde, why couldn't we have just done it with Garrosh?

because undead high elf fit more as warchief of the horde of the warcraft 2 than an orc, its just easy math

[Eazy]

Horde being Necromances/Demons/Evil/Death?

Did we play the same Warcraft? lol