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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I don't always agree with HvB but all his criticisms of Warfronts here and the state of the game/gearing is 100% spot on
    I think it's telling that at least three(Preach, Bellular, AND Kelani) are all pretty much agreeing on their criticisms of BfA right now. It'd be one thing if just Preach were the only one talking about about it, but when all the "Experts" are lining up to point out the flaws, it's a pretty fair bet that things are not good with the game.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post

    'Some gold' really should not equal half a million, to be honest. Yeah, a lot of player have lots of gold. But not all do. A friend of mine barely makes enough to sub each month due to having limited time to play, so that is a lot of gold.

    As for the Arathi rare sweep, possible to get only 1-2 items out of it. Which might be for the same slot.

    Again, not saying getting to 320 is hard, just saying that you are framing it much easier than it is. Most people do need normal and heroic dungeons to supplement or even do the bulk of gearing.
    And really that's how it should be. We're a month into the xpack. I'm all about catch-up mechanics but early on, you should have to take your lumps and grind a bit to get your blues and then purples.

    The first problem is that Warfronts were just too lucrative and made you skip the entire early gear curve. Guaranteed 340 gear for a 20, max 30 minute scenario even easier than the weekly-locked LFR is insanity this early in the expansion. The second problem of course, was the Horde exclusivity which even as a Horde player I can say is just bullshit. The third problem is the guaranteed gear. That should be handled with some parsimony, not thrown at players for half AFKing through a scenario they can't lose. The ilvl 320 requirement is a band-aid that fixes some of issue 1 but exacerbates issue 2 while not really touching issue 3.

    The feature is just terribly designed from the get go. It should have been active for both factions at once, and the rewards should have been the free 370 and then mostly cosmetic stuff. Have them drop catch-up gear later in the expansion to keep them relevant.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I think it's telling that at least three(Preach, Bellular, AND Kelani) are all pretty much agreeing on their criticisms of BfA right now. It'd be one thing if just Preach were the only one talking about about it, but when all the "Experts" are lining up to point out the flaws, it's a pretty fair bet that things are not good with the game.
    I think it's a bigger sign that Bellular is being so critical of the game, considering he has recently done work for Blizzard.

  4. #524
    Warfronts have to be more dynamic or the rotation has to come sooner. if the intent is to release a new warfront every 4-5 months = GG.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I think it's a bigger sign that Bellular is being so critical of the game, considering he has recently done work for Blizzard.
    I noticed that as well. You could tell he was trying to downplay it, but was still pretty much going "WTF?"

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I noticed that as well. You could tell he was trying to downplay it, but was still pretty much going "WTF?"
    WoW has a high barrier of entry due to expansion costs and sub fee.

    In the past, WoW devs used to design the game with that in mind to actively reward loyal players that stayed with the game. Current WoW devs are looking for up front sales/micro transactions through their services/stores and don't care about if players sub or not for a long period of time.

    Like I said before if you come into BFA at the end you can experience all the content as it is meant to be and not gated. But that is a bad feeling for a P2P and B2P MMORPG like WoW.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Warfronts have to be more dynamic or the rotation has to come sooner. if the intent is to release a new warfront every 4-5 months = GG.
    They should have definitely started with 2, to have both factions be able to do something.

    One plus though, the loot system in warfronts appears to be non-random, or at least allows you with a very high chance to get item's which you miss, which incidentally makes them the closest thing to badge gear I can think off. Im certainly glad that I could just spam them (as tank) for a couple of hours and be at least m0 from an iLvl PoV compared to banking on tiny upgrades via loot luck over a couple of weeks in m0 dungeons (with that still utterly pointless lockout).

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    In two days, Alliance will begin their contributions, and a week from now you'll be jumping into the Warfront yourself. The initial rollout was regrettable, and we should have had a minimum item level requirement on the experience sooner. In the grand scheme of things, the number of true fresh alts that geared up during the ~48 hours when it was unrestricted is small, and from a competitive perspective, most folks who'd been doing other endgame content for weeks prior to the Warfront had little need for the repeatable 340s it offered. That initial window should never have existed in the first place, but we didn't feel like it was the right answer to leave an unrestricted source of 340 loot in place for the entirety of September just to make sure everyone got a shot, relative to the harm it would cause to the value of other content for fresh 120s, to say nothing of the degraded experience in the Warfront itself from having a bunch of folks wearing 280 gear and unable to pull their weight.
    Having access to unlimited amounts of ilvl340 gear (even for disenchanting) 2 weeks before the other faction would have been a MAJOR advantage even if the WF had started with the ilvl320 requirement. That it did not just made the whole situation worse.

    Shitting epics on one faction right at the start of the expansion when the average player does not have access to them (no, most players do not run M+ on end ...not even M0) is just not the same as doing it 2 weeks later.

    Sorry. But this design was one of the single biggest mistakes made by a developer of a 2-faction-game. Is's laughably amateur.

    But hey, it's good that right when the Horde is about to enter their "2-week-wait-cycle" he realizes that MAYBE not having 2 warfronts right from the start (or simply not have the stupid zone-switch at all and just have the phases be identical for both factions) was not the best design they ever came up with.

    Maybe it would be better if Warfronts were over-the-top awesome content and one of the best features ever added to the game....but they are not. They just are not.
    Last edited by Nathasil; 2018-09-14 at 11:49 PM.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrion Moonblade View Post
    Horde babies every time an alliance has a perfectly valid point about how we CONSTANTLY get fucked is "taking the game too seriously".

    If the dev shit on you and your sub fee then you'd be upset, but no since you are in the baby faction that has to get their bottle alliance players who are sick of this shit are "taking the game too seriously".

    Are you trolling or are you legitimately saying this shit?

    - - - Updated - - -



    The inescapable FACT is that should this change have been made or not, it should have been made AFTER A FULL CYCLE. If they were stupid and broke their gearing them it needs to be broken evenly for both sides. Not only does this tilt everything EVEN FURTHER in favor of Horde both in PvP and raiding.
    PvP, maybe. Slightly. Competitive raiding though? Not even a little bit.

  10. #530
    I don't know if simply making warfronts an ilv issue really solves anything. But ok. I will go with it. However, I have a few of you posting that Silvermoon should be the next warfront. Can we please stop doing that.. There are two perfectly unused areas that back in 2010 people were dying to go back to. Gilneas and the lost isle. They need to make those a warfront.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No more silvermoon talk plz

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    And really that's how it should be. We're a month into the xpack. I'm all about catch-up mechanics but early on, you should have to take your lumps and grind a bit to get your blues and then purples.

    The first problem is that Warfronts were just too lucrative and made you skip the entire early gear curve. Guaranteed 340 gear for a 20, max 30 minute scenario even easier than the weekly-locked LFR is insanity this early in the expansion. The second problem of course, was the Horde exclusivity which even as a Horde player I can say is just bullshit. The third problem is the guaranteed gear. That should be handled with some parsimony, not thrown at players for half AFKing through a scenario they can't lose. The ilvl 320 requirement is a band-aid that fixes some of issue 1 but exacerbates issue 2 while not really touching issue 3.

    The feature is just terribly designed from the get go. It should have been active for both factions at once, and the rewards should have been the free 370 and then mostly cosmetic stuff. Have them drop catch-up gear later in the expansion to keep them relevant.
    True. Right now, the only path for Alliance is to either go through lowbie dungeons (which can have long queue times), just buy BoE epics to boost ilvl (very expensive) or WQs (very slow). Heck, just to test it, I went on my Demon Hunter right now, which is 302 ilvl. It has the following WQ rewards available:
    1 weapon at 300, downgrade.
    2 pants at 295 and 300, downgrades.
    1 head at 295, equal ilvl
    1 azerite piece wq at 295, equal or downgrade
    1 gloves at 310 from dungeon wq
    3 bracers, 2 at 305, 1 at 300, all downgrades
    1 shoulders 295, downgrade
    1 boots at 305, upgrade (by 5)

    So, in this wq cycle, I have 11 gear wqs, with only one giving an upgrade before warforge. And this is a day with comparatively many gear wqs. People who say you can get there in a day with only wqs are just plain wrong - or they got enough super high level pieces to get their average up. If you gear with only wqs, it takes a long time.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    True. Right now, the only path for Alliance is to either go through lowbie dungeons (which can have long queue times), just buy BoE epics to boost ilvl (very expensive) or WQs (very slow). Heck, just to test it, I went on my Demon Hunter right now, which is 302 ilvl. It has the following WQ rewards available:
    1 weapon at 300, downgrade.
    2 pants at 295 and 300, downgrades.
    1 head at 295, equal ilvl
    1 azerite piece wq at 295, equal or downgrade
    1 gloves at 310 from dungeon wq
    3 bracers, 2 at 305, 1 at 300, all downgrades
    1 shoulders 295, downgrade
    1 boots at 305, upgrade (by 5)

    So, in this wq cycle, I have 11 gear wqs, with only one giving an upgrade before warforge. And this is a day with comparatively many gear wqs. People who say you can get there in a day with only wqs are just plain wrong - or they got enough super high level pieces to get their average up. If you gear with only wqs, it takes a long time.
    Dinged 120 on monday, was 320 on tuesday, 335 today (barely played since tuesday).

    Doomhowl, 2 world bosses, several 315+ WQs, the guaranteed 340 from arathi quests + 2 from rare mobs, and then I bought a 350 trinket.

    There is no tedium in getting up to 305 as alliance and from there just spam heroics for like 4-5 runs and you should be around the 325 needed for mythic0.

    Non-issue really.

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by VileGenesis View Post
    Dinged 120 on monday, was 320 on tuesday, 335 today (barely played since tuesday).

    Doomhowl, 2 world bosses, several 315+ WQs, the guaranteed 340 from arathi quests + 2 from rare mobs, and then I bought a 350 trinket.

    There is no tedium in getting up to 305 as alliance and from there just spam heroics for like 4-5 runs and you should be around the 325 needed for mythic0.

    Non-issue really.
    See, that is the point. you talk about multiple 315+ WQs, as if they always offer that straight from dinging, but you actually need to get those 340s from arathi and the 350 trinket to unlock that. My DH got one 340 from Arathi, then the guaranteed item in the same slot, and nothing from world bosses. Even if I bought a 350 trinket, she would still far short of hc tbh.
    The same with "go from 305 to 325 in 4-5 runs" - that requires a lot of luck.

    Again, not saying it is impossible. But framing good luck as something deterministic just ticks me off:P

  14. #534
    High Overlord Darkynhalvos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    And why is that? Is your game impacted so severely by someone else having a lucky break?

    Jeez.
    Just saying that early access to a world boss doesn't matter when comparing evidence of faction bias, because of the extremely low drop chances.
    The warfront gear spam however IS valid evidence because they're guaranteed, spammable, and only ONE faction was allowed to access them with no restrictions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by torish View Post
    That is not true, you get ilvl 340 gear from doing the quests in arathi. I got a couple of 7th legion guy just by questing there.
    I've never seen regular WQ offer 340 unless it's a dungeon quest or emissary reward.

    Does one need to be 360+ to see them then? Because the max I see at 345 are WQ for 330 gear barring emissary rewards and dungeon quests.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    No we hadn´t for fuckings sake.

    Warfronts only opend up for the Horde not the Alliance.

    Get your shit right ffs.
    Honest mistake. I haven't maxed my Alliance toons yet so I didn't know. No need to be rude.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    True. Right now, the only path for Alliance is to either go through lowbie dungeons (which can have long queue times), just buy BoE epics to boost ilvl (very expensive) or WQs (very slow). Heck, just to test it, I went on my Demon Hunter right now, which is 302 ilvl. It has the following WQ rewards available:
    1 weapon at 300, downgrade.
    2 pants at 295 and 300, downgrades.
    1 head at 295, equal ilvl
    1 azerite piece wq at 295, equal or downgrade
    1 gloves at 310 from dungeon wq
    3 bracers, 2 at 305, 1 at 300, all downgrades
    1 shoulders 295, downgrade
    1 boots at 305, upgrade (by 5)

    So, in this wq cycle, I have 11 gear wqs, with only one giving an upgrade before warforge. And this is a day with comparatively many gear wqs. People who say you can get there in a day with only wqs are just plain wrong - or they got enough super high level pieces to get their average up. If you gear with only wqs, it takes a long time.
    Didnt your DH got 340 weapons from emissary??

    Aside from that. Yeah, getting 320 is very trivial dude. Ran a couple of normal dungeons or heroics to boost your average and you can get an extra piece when you get to the end boss this week. Alternatively you can just spam bgs that have a chance for 330s. After you do that. Log out, log back in and check if you have any upgrades in WQs. Thats how I got my dh to 322.
    "Why is the half of humanity with a special sensitivity to the preciousness of life, the half untainted by testosterone poisoning, almost wholly unrepresented in defense establishments and peace negotiations worldwide."

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by Trust Trader Mittens View Post
    Didnt your DH got 340 weapons from emissary??

    Aside from that. Yeah, getting 320 is very trivial dude. Ran a couple of normal dungeons or heroics to boost your average and you can get an extra piece when you get to the end boss this week. Alternatively you can just spam bgs that have a chance for 330s. After you do that. Log out, log back in and check if you have any upgrades in WQs. Thats how I got my dh to 322.
    Emissary weapon? Those are tied to your average ilvl, too, so not sure how one would get to 340 as an outlier.

    Anyway, the point I was making was not that getting to 320 is hard. The point was that saying 'you can just get to 320 by buying some stuff and doing WQ' is wrong. One needs to run dungeons, which is subject to both RNG and queue time. Given the 90th percentile, that means some people take quite a long time to gear up. It is trivial if you are lucky enough. Others can spend hours without making any progress due to bad rng. 'tis just the nature of the game these days.

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