New Interview: Sylvanas ordered the Wrathgate?

[ello]

Blizzard have often forgotten their own lore numerous times in the past and have had to be corrected, just pester them on twitter or something.

This is true. Lorash the retcon elf comes to mind lol

[Merie]

Garrosh was right all along!

[Mehrunes]

Problem is that besides Apothecaries, there were no other Forsaken in UC anymore.

So yeah, even for populism, seeing all of your people as traitors goes a little too far.

Radicalism is a thing. Take tiny radical sects of any of the major religions, for whom the rest (counting in hundreds of millions or more) are decadent and not following the true faith. Besides, it's unlikely that a traitor like Putress counted on the support for him being as small as it turned out to be. Finally, we're talking his self-identity first. And as any fanatic (particularly taking "death to the living slogan to heart") he had no reason to not consider himself a Forsaken. His view on the current regime and its followers would only be an extension of that.

[Deleted]

The funny thing is they actually have people for that. They said so just a few months ago. Those people are just doing a piss-poor job it seems.

Edit: Found the interview where they said it:

https://www.sciencealert.com/world-o...terview-part-2

Honestly, they could hire people like @Aucald or @Wildberry, they know Warcraft lore far better then the writers themselves it appears.

This is hilarious if true.

[KrakHed]

Yes, because if she knew they were working against her she would've pulled a night of the long knives. That the coup was so developed that it was able to oust her from her own city and seize control means she can't have been aware of it.

Chronicle's statement refers to how the creation of the Blight/New Plague was on Sylvanas's order, something we know since Vanilla, but was obscured from the rest of the Horde. The closest I can come to not dismissing this out of hand as a misstatement is if the implication is that she was willfully negligent and allowed the Forsaken in Dragonblight enough autonomy to allow this to happen, but even that's stretching it. She simply has nothing to gain from this entire chain of events and a lot to lose. This on top of the fact that we've been outright told that the Forsaken were wrongly blamed for this.

She has plenty to gain if she can force the coup to launch before they're fully prepared and blame everything on them, while getting the rest of the Horde to clear them out.

[Magnagarde]

They aren't wrong. Sylvanas ordered the creation of the plague and that is all on the Forsaken and her. What she didn't order is for it to be used on both the Horde and the Alliance during Wrathgate.

I simply believe they meant that she's behind seeing it created.

[Feanoro]

If you quest for the Forsaken, from Vanilla up to Wrathgate, you'd know that the Wrathgate was planned exactly the way it happened. The Hand of Vengeance Quests alone were done in plain sight, the Blight tested extensively upon the living and perfected for undead only at the very last moment. Seriously, Sylvanas even oversaw the tests of the new Plague against the living and what it does herself in Rise of the Lich King. Otherwise we've had the tests performed in Undercity for all of WoW's lifetime, just as in Tarren Mill and several other places. Tests against living people. Yes, they used Alliance test subjects, but it was clear that this New Plague was against the living just as much as against the undead. It was planned to be deployed at the Wrathgate, and it was known it would be. The Forsaken talk about little else during the whole questline in Northrend.
So why anyone would think that the Wrathgate was an accident is completely beyond me and kind of always was. Not even Thrall believed Sylvanas in this, which is why he sent his Korkron afterwards, even though Varimathras was gone.

Prepare for "lalala can't hear you, waifu is a dark angel, her every word is truth" and so on.

[Super Dickmann]

She has plenty to gain if she can force the coup to launch before they're fully prepared and blame everything on them, while getting the rest of the Horde to clear them out.

No, she doesn't, because the reason she's been able to do all of this up to this point is the lack of oversight. Drawing all attention on her city and away from Arthas, her only target, in order to remove rivals she could have killed by her loyal personality cult at a whim doesn't work. Having the Horde do it for her means inviting the Horde to see what she's doing and placing guards to limit her moves, which is exactly what happens.

What's inarguable is that Sylvanas planned to use the Blight on the living and the Scourge. This is told to you outright multiple times from Vanilla on. But there's nothing to suggest she ordered the Wrathgate specifically because it runs completely counter to her direct interest and has been contradicted in the game itself.

[Nathreim]

Blizz cant remember its lore for shit.

[KrakHed]

Head of the lore team: I love Sylvanas and she won't turn into a raid boss.

So they write her in a way to do whatever the hell she wants, commit numbers of crimes and simply get away with it. Only an edgy Sylvanas fanboy would create such a thing.

There's four options here. Sylvanas is Kerrigan'd. Sylvanas takes full control of the Horde, and that's just their new identity now. Sylvanas becomes a raidboss and is promptly offed.

Or the final option. Sylvanas because the Lich Queen, and isn't immediately killed in a raid but rather splits off to create her own powerful faction that breathes new life into Warcraft's villain roster that could provide raids and content for years to come instead of being vanquished immediately. She finally creates new New Scourge.

[schwank05]

This is great, #Forsakenmasterrace I have always wondered why the Horde doesn't just get it over already and drop the plague on everyone.

[KrakHed]

No, she doesn't, because the reason she's been able to do all of this up to this point is the lack of oversight. Drawing all attention on her city and away from Arthas, her only target, in order to remove rivals she could have killed by her loyal personality cult at a whim doesn't work. Having the Horde do it for her means inviting the Horde to see what she's doing and placing guards to limit her moves, which is exactly what happens.

What's inarguable is that Sylvanas planned to use the Blight on the living and the Scourge. This is told to you outright multiple times from Vanilla on. But there's nothing to suggest she ordered the Wrathgate specifically because it runs completely counter to her direct interest and has been contradicted in the game itself.

She may have thought that oversight was worth a chance to strike at the Lich King.

[Super Dickmann]

She may have thought that oversight was worth a chance to strike at the Lich King.

I don't buy it, and not just for the reasons listed above, but for the purely spiteful personal reasons that define most of what Sylvanas does. When she shot Arthas with that poison arrow in WC3 or went after him in the Halls of Reflection, she wanted to be there personally to see him die. She would not outsource a plausible shot at his death to some lackey, especially not one considered treacherous, while she was back in her city in a position to be ousted.

Putress and Varimathras on the other hand have means and motive. Striking at the Alliance, Horde and the one who betrayed the Legion suits their aims and sending them struggling with one another gives them time to prepare the city to summon Sargeras or whatever it is they were doing.

[schwank05]

There's four options here. Sylvanas is Kerrigan'd. Sylvanas takes full control of the Horde, and that's just their new identity now. Sylvanas becomes a raidboss and is promptly offed.

Or the final option. Sylvanas because the Lich Queen, and isn't immediately killed in a raid but rather splits off to create her own powerful faction that breathes new life into Warcraft's villain roster that could provide raids and content for years to come instead of being vanquished immediately. She finally creates new New Scourge.

Or they break the shitty 2 faction system and introduce Sylvanas as the leader of the New Forsaken faction which allows players to play any face as undead under Her rule and everyone hates you but also wars with eachother as well.

[ello]

I don't buy it, and not just for the reasons listed above, but for the purely spiteful personal reasons that define most of what Sylvanas does. When she shot Arthas with that poison arrow in WC3 or went after him in the Halls of Reflection, she wanted to be there personally to see him die. She would not outsource a plausible shot at his death to some lackey, especially not one considered treacherous, while she was back in her city in a position to be ousted.

Putress and Varimathras on the other hand have means and motive. Striking at the Alliance, Horde and the one who betrayed the Legion suits their aims and sending them struggling with one another gives them time to prepare the city to summon Sargeras or whatever it is they were doing.

Plus, y'know, the literal narrator says they didn't do it

[Mehrunes]

Well, there was one quest in Vanilla that made me doubt Sylvanas knew the whole range of Varimathras's scheme and that was when one of the questgivers in Tarren Mill told you, you didn't need to 'bother' Sylvanas with all this, she'd rather tell Varimathras, who is overseeing this particular testing. I can't find the quote anywhere anymore, I think it was some flavor text after you handed in the quest.
But later it was shown that all experiments were approved by Sylvanas herself and the Hand of Vengeance line was so obvious that even while doing it I thought to myself 'Really, the other Horde members don't see anything even... slightly worrying in this? Okeeeey...' ^^ And Agmar, who was supposed to oversee the whole thing and make sure everything was alright was so preoccupied with checking private mail for anything 'treacherous' and yelling how great he was and that his eyes are upon you, that he didn't have the slightest clue about what was going on.
I think everyone just thought.. well, she's only testing this on enemies, so we don't care. And didn't think it through.
And then Varimathras provided her with the perfect scapegoat: himself. Actually... thinking she orchestrated it all (even the coup) makes me want it to be that way, because it seems so ingenious, that I want someone on Azeroth to be this smart for a change.

Of course Sylvanas knew about the experiments. That has been known since Vanilla. She was the one who ordered the creation of RAS and tasked them with creation of a new plague in the first place. But that doesn't mean she knew of Varimathras' own designs. Take Ashbringer comic for example. The Forsaken that joined Darion's party gathered plague shroom samples from Naxxramas. And at the end we had a big reveal with him meeting Varimathras' in secret in the middle of nowhere in Forsaken territory. If Sylvanas knew about that meeting and Varimathras' interest in Naxxramas, why would they need to hide away from her eyes and the eyes of people loyal to her?

[LuminaL]

that changes A LOT of things in horde if it turns out to be true.

starting with saurfang, his son died by the lich kings hands, but would the conversation continue , or the forsaken just acted faster ; it means not only she didnt care about saurfangs son in wrathgate but also she was going to kill him. I believe if this is the case, other horde leaders and horde figures will most likely react badly to sylvanas.

[Thestuff1992]

It’s actually hilarious how many people in this thread even on page 1 are screeching about the writers not remembering their lore when in reality it’s obvious he’s talking about Sylvanas creating the blight which ultimately led to the Wrathgate ordeal.

Are people actually this dumb? How are you gonna talk about the devs forgetting their own lore but then go on to completely misunderstand what this guy is saying?

The wrathgate plague bombing happened because of Sylvanas. She developed or helped to develop the blight so she unintentionally had a hand in the wrathgate regardless of whether it was truly her plan or not.

[Xilurm]

I wish Friendlyimmolation was here right now.

[ello]

It’s actually hilarious how many people in this thread even on page 1 are screeching about the writers not remembering their lore when in reality it’s obvious he’s talking about Sylvanas creating the blight which ultimately led to the Wrathgate ordeal.

Are people actually this dumb? How are you gonna talk about the devs forgetting their own lore but then go on to completely misunderstand what this guy is saying?

The wrathgate plague bombing happened because of Sylvanas. She developed the blight so she unintentionally had a hand in the wrathgate regardless of whether it was truly her plan or not.

To be fair

1) the sentence is kind of awkward

2) This guy *has* forgotten things in the past. He was the one who created the lore aberration that was STM Garrosh. He was the "Isn't Falstad dead?" guy.