Looking for advice filling out a new build. Now with 75% more wall of text!

[Tziva]

So most of the things for my build are already purchased, but I have a few last things I need. Looking for some advice/thoughts, specifically on RAM. Preemptive appologies for the wall of text; brevity is not my strong suit.

Stuff I do

This computer will be used both for work and for gaming. I also do regular video editing, but usually smaller projects. I would like to be able to stream without having in-game lag every time. I don't do 3D rendering. Being strong for gaming is really the important thing to me.

For gaming I play a shitton of different stuff from very simple graphics to 3D open world environments so I can't really give a specific game or even genre to optimise around. Overwatch is probably the most demanding thing I am playing currently, but obviously this changes based on what games are out and how much they hook me. I also raid in WoW.

Should suppport 1440p at high settings, and the ability to be play other games that come along at higher settings is important to me too. I am not expecting to run everything ever on max but I'd like to be able to use settings on the higher end for most games. And I'd like to be able to run a stream while doing it.

90% of my job is browser based and mostly involves a lot of active browser tabs at once, so I'm not concerned about designing the build around it. Mostly mentioning in case there are small changes I can make that will be beneficial here.

Already owned or purchased

I have a new case, new OS drive (970 evo), new gpu (1070ti) that are already bought cos I crossed some sweet sales. I will recyle my psu (EVGA Supernova 650 G2) and a couple overflow storage drives (8tb hdd and an 850 evo) from my current machine.

OS is handled, and I don't need any peripherals.

To Buy

I'm likely going to buy a 9600k for cpu. I could maaaaybe budget for a 9700k if it would be a significant improvement for what I do, but it doesn't seem like it is. I'm probably going to pick up a used D15 noctua off a friend for the cooler; I'd like to stick with air cooling because water is outside my comfort zone since I've never built with it before. (also there's an needed optical drive where the resevoir would go in my case anyway. I can always move to it later if I'm feeling brave)

For the mobo, I want rgb support for my case fans, m.2 for ssd (is nvme standard now?), support for at least x3 sata, and something with a good longevity reputation because I rebuild so very rarely. I'm looking at ASUS TUF z3p0 plus just because it is on amazon, seems good at that price point, and I've had decent past experiences with asus. However, more than willing to take recommendations in that price range ($150-170).

I haven't the slightest fucking idea on RAM. Benchmarks and reviews I've found are all over the place. I've been looking at 16gb kits (x2 8gb) DD4 in the ~3000MHz range because that's what I see in most gaming builds. Most stuff is CL15 or 16 and I'm not sure how much that one point matters. I'm looking at kits in the $130-160 range, but if it's worth allotting a little more money here, then let me know. So far considered: Corsair Vengeance LED (mainly because it's cheaper than the LPX on Amazon but I think the same otherwse?), G.Skill TridentZ RGB or Aegis (is there a difference besides cosmetic? I don't care about the RGB itself), and Night Hawk RBG (which is 3200mhz but does that matter much?). I know jackshit about RAM nowadays so I welcome insight and suggestions. Maybe I'm not even looking at the right speeds or amount.

Aside from mobo and ram, is there anything I'm forgetting that would be a worthwhile inclusion or that it might be worth going better on?

Budget

For the stuff I still need, I'd like to spend around $600-650. That said, if there's really something that is worthwhile to go better on, I have the ability to spend a little more.

ALSO. I have Amazon gift certificates for covering most of this so unless something is drastically better or cheaper elsewhere, I need parts that are available there. I understand that for some things that means paying slightly more and having smaller selection.

Also, because I can't shut up...

How are thermal pads in comparison to thermal paste nowadays? Thermal paste is easy in theory but in reality I have messed it up lots of times and have had to carefully clean it off and reapply, which is just a real pain in the ass. Something that makes it idiotproof is appealing to me, as an idiot. I see some stuff online saying they aren't as effective as paste but much of what I see is years old, and I wonder if it's caught up and better now. If viable, is there a specific one folks recommend? Definitely willing to pay a little more here if it's not a compromise on cooling.

tl;dr

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/sWhQgw (includes already owned parts for convenience). Help, please and thanks.

[Temp name]

You say you've never built with water before, an AiO like the Corsair H100i v2 is pretty much just plug and play, it comes pre-assembled and you just screw it in. It's not much harder than an air cooler, if it even is.

Thermal pads: They're within 1-2 degrees of good paste. They're also reusable, so that's something.

CPUs: 9600k is 6/6, 9700k is 8/8. 9700k comes with higher boost out of the box, but you can probably make up for by OC'ing. If you're going to stream, obviously having more cores will help, but it's not super needed.

Mobo: the TUF series seems to be going downhill, so maybe the PRIME Z390-A, also from ASUS.

RAM: It's not super important on Intel. You'll do fine with anything 3000-ish or above. The Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 a fair bit cheaper than the Trident Z.

[Deleted]

A 9600k is fine but I wouldn't capture off the same box, what do you plan for your old PC (add a capture card)?

RAM latency is the important thing for gaming, this is the inverse product of speed/cas latency, so 3200mhz/15 = 213.3, 3200mhz/16 = 200 so the cas15 has a 6% ish lower latency (crudely), or 3200/16 == 3000/15. As stated by Temp name, Intel is less sensitive to this than Ryzen, but it will make a larger difference the harder you OC your CPU, as typically you set cache ratios below that of the cores.

People reckon you get the best results from Samsung B-die memory, but this is not so easy to check against the vendor SKU(there are searches for b-die against SKU on interwebs). Different SKU's within the same product range, e.g LPX or TridentZ have modules from different memory manufacturers on them.

Don't worry about paste application, splodge from a pea to a marble size amount in the centre of the cpu heat-spreader and clamp the heat-sink down with moderate/high pressure. Sure, don't use thermally conductive stuff, but otherwise just let it squidge out the sides, no harm done. On the side of re-use, I spent $10 on some paste (GC Extreme) 5 years ago and despite doing my own and numerous friends PC's I am nowhere near needing another tube.

Asus motherboards in that price range will cope with a 9600k OC but I would look for something with a better a power stage if you go for an 8core (or may down the line), probably MSI.

[Tziva]

Thanks guys, very helpful! (updating pcpartpicker as I get feedback)

So, I should go with the Corsair Vengeance for RAM is sounds like. The LED is actually cheaper than the LPX on Amazon (link vs link), is there any reason not to just go with the LED?

You say you've never built with water before, an AiO like the Corsair H100i v2 is pretty much just plug and play, it comes pre-assembled and you just screw it in. It's not much harder than an air cooler, if it even is.

BUT I'M A VERY ANXIOUS PERSON.

But okay, I'll keep that in mind.

Asus motherboards in that price range will cope with a 9600k OC but I would look for something with a better a power stage if you go for an 8core (or may down the line), probably MSI.

Do you have a specific one you'd recommend?

Don't worry about paste application, splodge from a pea to a marble size amount in the centre of the cpu heat-spreader and clamp the heat-sink down with moderate/high pressure. Sure, don't use thermally conductive stuff, but otherwise just let it squidge out the sides, no harm done. On the side of re-use, I spent $10 on some paste (GC Extreme) 5 years ago and despite doing my own and numerous friends PC's I am nowhere near needing another tube.

Oh, I know how to do thermal paste, but never overestimate a moron with butterfingers. It's a minor issue but it is one that really irritates me so if I can do away with it, that would be really nice.

And yeah reusability isn't a factor for me since besides the fact I rebuild like once a decade anyway, as you said the tubes last awhile. I still have plenty of paste leftover from when I built my spouse a computer last year if I go that route.

[Tziva]

looking at mobos online, a couple additional thoughts: the ones that have heatsinks for m2 slots built in (like this one although not sure how good this specific one is) seem really nice.

also I dont care about wifi as a feature. my desktop is right by the router so I will only be used wired anyway.

[Kagthul]

The M.2 heatsinks dont really do anything. They look nice though, and they dont hurt.

I'd suggest the 9700K over the 9600K if you can afford it because its simply more future proof and will be faster at the non-gaming things you do.

When streaming, unless you can stream at absurdly high data rates anyway, just use the iGPU and Quicksync.

I use the thermal pads from IC: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Its margin-of-error differences between that and good paste, and its way less hassle. Just put it on, and done. If you have to remove and remount... its reusable, and way less time consuming. It also wont dry out like paste may (which isnt a huge concern, since it doesn't happen that often anyway). I highly recommend it as just a QoL thing if nothing else.

As was suggested an AIO water cooler is really not "water cooling" in the sense you're thinking. Its all self-contained. You just install it and go. They are easier to install than big air coolers, IMO, because the CPU block is so much easier to get at and mount, and the radiator/fans are just.. mounting fans. The difference in cooling isn't huge, though. Its about surface area more than medium - so a big air cooler like a D15 will cool about as well as a 240/280mm radiator on an AIO since they have about the same amount of radiation surface.

Go with what you're comfy with, but dont be gunshy on AIO cooling. Its just as easy or easier than a big air cooler. Also they tend to look cleaner/be easier to RGB out. A lot of them have pump blocks that are RGB.

[Tziva]

The M.2 heatsinks dont really do anything. They look nice though, and they dont hurt.

Ah okay, I know people who had heat issues with earlier gens of nvme so I thought maybe the heatsink might be nice. But also maybe not an issue with this gen. I've never used one before so new territory for me.

I'd suggest the 9700K over the 9600K if you can afford it because its simply more future proof and will be faster at the non-gaming things you do.

I can swing it, it just seemed like an easy way to save a bit. Future proofing is definitely appealing for me because I do only rebuild very, very rarely (although obviously piecemeal upgrades like gpus do happen). I'm only rebuilding my current machine after 6 years because I'm starting to have some issues, otherwise it probably would have been at least a few more. I'll update partpicker and it ends up being too high, I can always go back down to 9600k when it comes time to buy.

I am also somewhat hoping I can get some black friday deals but since I'm trying to get stuff on amazon to use my credit that'll be a bit harder.

[mrgreenthump]

Ah okay, I know people who had heat issues with earlier gens of nvme so I thought maybe the heatsink might be nice. But also maybe not an issue with this gen. I've never used one before so new territory for me.

It was the controller chip that got hot and think some still do after extended use. But in your use case you should never hit those temps. And some heatsinks do help with the temps as they are properly designed to cool the chip. Although the difference is negligible for the new controllers.

[BicycleMafioso]

I dislike the notion of throwing future proofing around like that.
Because it's not really. It increases longevity, absolutely. But future proofing would be more akin with going for an AMD Ryzen and having upgrade paths on the same motherboard (since they typically reuse it for several (4?) generations, unlike Intel).
If you are set on Intel I would go with the 9600K today if you don't have any realistic scenario that would make use of the 9700K on the near horizon.

RAM, however, is one area where I could see you spending more money. I personally feel like the 12 I am sitting on today (yay DDR3) is what is holding me back more than my ancient 4770k or even my GTX 680. Having multiple browser tabs up AND a game (ie wow or MTG:A) at the same time? Yeah, this painful. Sometimes having the browser running for too long by itself eats up too much of it.
And these days, I am running 4-8 tabs. When I was physically healthy enough to be able to sit at my computer for long periods instead of be in a hospital bed, I had like 30+ all the time.
I am thinking that if your primary work / job is involving browser based activity, I would splurge on RAM capacity over other factors in RAM. This depends on the particular browser you use, of course.
3-3.2k seems fast enough. Lower timings are better of course. But Intel doesn't scale as well with memory speeds as AMD does, so it's not as important.


I was unaware that thermal pads for CPUs were even a thing now. Cool. If it truly is, as someone posted here, within margin of error, then absolutely. If it gives you peace of mind, that is always the correct approach.
That said, I would say thermal compound would remain my preferred method. Thermal compound does not have cooling capacity, it's a bridging mechanism for the micro-gaps due to the metal not being perfectly smooth for connection. So less really is more, and mounting pressure should be enough as far as spread goes.
You probably know this already, I just write because I like the sound of my own, uh, text.

Edit: removed a few redundant uses of 'however'.

[Tziva]

I dislike the notion of throwing future proofing around like that.
Because it's not really. It increases longevity, absolutely.

That's just kinda semantics to me. The point is that I rebuild very rarely so anything that extends that period or makes the end of that period less painful is worth a small amount of additional cost. The 9700k is only about $100 more and it sounds like it might be worth that extra cost for things like streaming based on other feedback? Disagree?

RAM, however, is one area where I could see you spending more money. I personally feel like the 12 I am sitting on today (yay DDR3) is what is holding me back more than my ancient 4770k or even my GTX 680. Having multiple browser tabs up AND a game (ie wow or MTG:A) at the same time? Yeah, this painful. Sometimes having the browser running for too long by itself eats up too much of it.
And these days, I am running 4-8 tabs. When I was physically healthy enough to be able to sit at my computer for long periods instead of be in a hospital bed, I had like 30+ all the time.
I am thinking that if your primary work / job is involving browser based activity, I would splurge on RAM capacity over other factors in RAM. This depends on the particular browser you use, of course.
3-3.2k seems fast enough. Lower timings are better of course. But Intel doesn't scale as well with memory speeds as AMD does, so it's not as important.

Good advice, but do you have any recommendation that you feel is better than what I am looking at without being a ton more expensive?

(it's also probably nice for video editing, but realistically I don't do that more than 5-6 times a month)

[Temp name]

I was unaware that thermal pads for CPUs were even a thing now. Cool. If it truly is, as someone posted here, within margin of error, then absolutely. If it gives you peace of mind, that is always the correct approach.

https://www.amazon.com/Innovation-Co.../dp/B07CKVW18G

LTT is the only decently big channel I could find with a video on it with 2 minutes of searching, it's getting late here and I should have been sleeping an hour ago
https://youtu.be/YpphKzmDiJM

[Kagthul]

Yeah Steve from GN was like "well do a video on those soon!" several months ago and... poof.

[Tziva]

So at this point, I'm trying to get a handful of different motherboards to keep an eye on on Black Friday to pick up. These are the ones I'm currently watching:

SRock Z390 PHANTOM GAMING ($140 on New Egg) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16813157852
ASUS Prime Z380-A ($190 on Amazon) http://a.co/d/feFCPzE
MSI MPG Z390M Gaming Edge ($170 on Amazon) http://a.co/d/i7Hksp8 i cant read
ASUS Rog Strix XZ390-H ($180 on Amazon) http://a.co/d/cV5CQay

Does anyone have any thoughts on any of these (are they all worth keeping an eye on?) or some additional suggestions in that price range that I should also consider? Alternatively, is the NewEgg one such a good deal I should get it right out?

Looking for something with an MSRP below $200, but hopefully with some sales I can get much below that. I'm hoping to actually spend under $150.

Chaud usually makes a news post for Black Friday for deals so I'll probably be stalking his list too

[BicycleMafioso]

I trust you got my pm, too.

Anyway. The boards would all work, but the MSI is an mATX board. Whilst not making much of a difference, it looks a bit weird in an ATX case. Not any worse, except to build on. The rear ports on the Asrock one as far as the i/o goes looks a bit sparse.
I normally don't consider ASUS good options (due to value), but the whiteish one looks good.

I would not go with the Asrock one, due to its width. I have had bad experience working with the thin Asrock ones, mainly due to not being wide enough to support the last mounting hole. It nearly gets there, but not quite. I'm sure it is actually fine, but I really want it more secure rather than flexing there on its own.
I have personally never had a bad experience (knock on wood) with a Gigabyte board yet.
Have you thought about looking at other chipsets, that don't support overclocking or is that important to you?

[Tziva]

I did get your PM thanks

did not notice it was micro. scratch that off; I dont want that.

I have personally never had a bad experience (knock on wood) with a Gigabyte board yet.

my last two builds have both been gigabytes and I like them as well but I didn't see any in the appropriate price range. A link or name for specific board recommendation would be helpful if you have one.