(Loot Box's) Number of child gamblers quadruples in just two years....

[Kumorii]

Don't deflect and you didn't answer the bottom part.

Once again why is it ok for Company's to exploit bad parents and kids?

Why is it ok for the ESRB to not do its job? Don't deflect, Answer the questions outright.

Hate to break it to you but if these company's don't start doing their job, The governments will.

Deflect what? You are the one deflecting by trying to shift to something else... I'm not giving pass on companies exploiting parents. So why bring it up?

I'm simply saying that parents are 100% responsible for giving the ut their credit card info to their kids without supervision. It's not exploitation to be have an in game store when parents have a choice in giving them credit card info or not.

Still waiting for you to answer how people can be emptied of their bank accounts without usage of credit cards when it comes to games... So far you are the one not giving straight answers.

[Jtbrig7390]

Agree. That's bullshit behaviour. Though i put the crafting and tailoring of microtx system into the same bucket with companies just denying or buying time when they're asked how much money they're getting via this sketchy systems.

To me it sounds like the good old pyramid systems, where gullible people are responsible for themselves, but in the end responsibility falls also in the hands of the ones creating and marketing them.

Well said.

- - - Updated - - -

Still waiting for you to answer how people can be emptied of their bank accounts without usage of credit cards when it comes to games... So far you are the one not giving straight answers.

It can happen via the card already being tied to the account and the child not knowing what they are doing.

Once again a parent wouldn't expect a E rated title to allow such things in it. Its almost like if the game had better labeling or you know no gambling it wouldn't be a issue.

Once again both are at fault for different reasons, but you seem to keep ignoring this part of my post.

[Kumorii]

Well said.

- - - Updated - - -


It can happen via the card already being tied to the account and the child not knowing what they are doing.

Which still means they put it in willingly and set it all up....
Even then it's still usage of credit cards, which you previously said wasn't necessary.

Once again both are at fault for different reasons, but you seem to keep ignoring this part of my post.

Parents giving out credit card info to their kids is all on parents, which is the only point i've made. Putting them in games and that the rating is lower than it should is not on the parents which I never argued against. However, this doesn't not lead to or make it mandatory for parents to give credit card info to kids.

My point has always been that parents or families being cleaned out is all on them because they approved credit card usage. You seem to think that I say 100% of the credit card issue means that the ratings and how lootboxes should be handled in general is also on the parents... no. As you said, for different reasons and different points they have both things needed to be fixed, which we are in the process of doing.
Credit card usage is STILL 100% parents fault. The key thing is that credit card usage and ratings are different points in the same matter.

[Jtbrig7390]

Credit card usage is STILL 100% parents fault. The key thing is that credit card usage and ratings are different points in the same matter.

Credit card usage is 100% of the parents fault I agree.

But as a busy adult you may not notice a $2.99 charge here and there even more so if you use a credit card because of interest. Most bank's and credit card company's won't even flag a account unless a decent amount $300+ has been spent.

Parents are not perfect and never will be but that doesn't ok exploiting kids ether.

On top of that why should a parent worry about their info being tied to a account when all the kid plays is FIFA? You would think a child wouldn't be able to access said funds via playing a sports title. It wouldn't be a issue at all if company's like EA didn't put loot box's in the game to begin with. No loot box's no money getting spent.

Also this thread is also about child gamblers in general and you can buy lootbox's without needing your parents info. There is ways to get money outside of asking your parents for it.

[Popastique]

To me it sounds like the good old pyramid systems, where gullible people are responsible for themselves, but in the end responsibility falls also in the hands of the ones creating and marketing them.

Pretty much this. I just wish news outlets didn't try to make parents look like saints who did everything right, but instead put the blame on both parents and companies.

[Coldkil]

Pretty much this. I just wish news outlets didn't try to make parents look like saints who did everything right, but instead put the blame on both parents and companies.

That's another story but yeah, it's pretty easy for media to fall in the "DURR VIDEOGAMES BAD HURR" and "who thinks of the children" trap as (quite hilariously again) they're targeted to the very same audience that is clueless about the videogames as a whole and are directly responsible for their kids actions.

The more i think about the whole thing, the more it looks like a fantastic loop of ignorance and exploitation. Tells a lot about who's in charge of what.

[Vash The Stampede]

Which still means they put it in willingly and set it all up....
Even then it's still usage of credit cards, which you previously said wasn't necessary.

Parents giving out credit card info to their kids is all on parents, which is the only point i've made. Putting them in games and that the rating is lower than it should is not on the parents which I never argued against. However, this doesn't not lead to or make it mandatory for parents to give credit card info to kids.

To this day the Google Play store reminds me to add a payment option every time I try to download a free app. Google knows that even though I don't buy apps, they hope that by having payment info entered that I may accidentally buy something from in app purchases. And that's as an adult, so imagine what a child who has no concept of money can do with this? It's like going to McDonalds and they ask if you wanna super size it. At some point you will, except once that payment info is entered in you just opened up an easily abusive system for children. You really can't fault the parents when they work a full time job and don't want to have to deal with a child crying over batwings in Roblox. So you will buy them Robux and forget you entered that payment info in.

My point has always been that parents or families being cleaned out is all on them because they approved credit card usage. You seem to think that I say 100% of the credit card issue means that the ratings and how lootboxes should be handled in general is also on the parents... no. As you said, for different reasons and different points they have both things needed to be fixed, which we are in the process of doing.
Credit card usage is STILL 100% parents fault. The key thing is that credit card usage and ratings are different points in the same matter.

Gambling is a nasty habit that we universally agree is a terrible practice and should be stopped. It's an addiction that some people can't help themselves as adults, so what chance does a child have in a video game? To blame the parents for entering credit card info is wrong and isn't productive in anyway. Loot boxes and micro-transactions serve no purpose other than to enrich the corporations and their share holders. There's no benefit for children to learn to gamble, and there no benefit to teach children to be fiscally irresponsible. Micro-transactions and loot boxes should be illegal for games and we should hold the game developers responsible, not the parents. These systems are predatory in nature towards children. All loot boxes and micro-transactions should be eligible for a full refund at any point in time, because they're preying on user addiction. Arguing that parents are responsible for entering credit card info shows a lack of empathy for both the parents and the children.

[WoWGoneBad]

Granted that I have only reviewed the last 3-5 pages, but

With the people blaming the parents, have any of you not EVER stolen money from your parents? Have any of you not ever heard of a child sneaking a credit card and doing things online with it? Or say writing down the information so that they can use it whenever they want?

I would go to think that a good number of kids that are into this loot box thing are kids that have parents that said no, but they took their cards and did it anyway. While yes the blame can be put on the parents for not keeping track of their kids and parents credit cards, there are plenty of ways for kids to get their parents info and fake it til they break the bank.

Hell with my inlaws info, I can create about 10 different cards under their name have the card shipped to a friends house spend thousands and they would never know the diference until they get their credit reports. With all the online green palerless routes, the bill will never go to the house and kids can spend their asses of.

As a parent, I sill gotta as Jt did, why does a video game meant for kids 13 and under need a loot box system in it? Why does any game with a rating under 18+ need to have loot boxes. Each of them require a credit card to get the lootboxes, and if credit cards are not gained until the age of 18 why should a video game have it in there? This is promoting the art of stealing from parents(lets be honest about it) and then blaming the parents for the sake of bigger profits.

[InFamous Gerbil]

I am sad to see there are people actually blaming the parents. Lootboxes is a cancer that needs to be eliminited. Gaming companies are taking advantage of our youth. They are giving them the idea that gambling is ok and there is nothing wrong with it.
I feel like people defending gaming companies and putting all the blame on parents are the younger generation. They grew up with mtx and lootboxes so it is accepted and ok for them. So so sad for them. Never got to experience gaming before all this garbage.

[Greevir]

I feel trading card games are no different than lootboxes. If lootboxes are so "cancerous" that they need to be removed, then so do TCGs. Imo, parents simply need to pay attention to their children rather than letting electronics do their job for them.

[Krastyn]

Well said for someone who has never raised a child in their life.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...l-to-Authority

People will take your arguments a lot more seriously if you a) don't assume things about them and b) don't just brush off comments due to some arbitrary reason.

I've raised kids. My parents raised me. My grandparents raised them. My grandparents would not be someone to talk to about this topic, because they don't use tablets, smart phones, or play video games. Yet by your statements, they are better qualified to talk on this subject than @Popastique because they have raised a kid. That's ludicrous logic.

[Dextroden]

I feel trading card games are no different than lootboxes. If lootboxes are so "cancerous" that they need to be removed, then so do TCGs. Imo, parents simply need to pay attention to their children rather than letting electronics do their job for them.

They really aren't that different. But people make excuses for it since Jim Sterling hasn't told people to turn on tcgs.

What I wonder is what the brilliant strategy of "Rated M for gambling" does for

1. Mtxs that don't use loot boxes
2. The fact there is no punishments or anything realistic to stop them.

I like that JT actually informs parents. But he can't do jackshit about a game bought through the console or steam stores.

[Vash The Stampede]

Hell with my inlaws info, I can create about 10 different cards under their name have the card shipped to a friends house spend thousands and they would never know the diference until they get their credit reports. With all the online green palerless routes, the bill will never go to the house and kids can spend their asses of.

I have nieces and nephews who will steal credit cards and the gift cards in stores to get Robux for Roblox. My adult cousin used his fathers credit score to get himself credit cards with his name on it, and to this day the debt collectors are after my uncle for payments. Credit card fraud is rampant and easy, so what chance do parents have against their children?

I feel trading card games are no different than lootboxes. If lootboxes are so "cancerous" that they need to be removed, then so do TCGs. Imo, parents simply need to pay attention to their children rather than letting electronics do their job for them.

Getting trading cards is a physical property, so it isn't the same thing as loot boxes. Also I believe that trading cards should disclose what cards you're getting when you buy the pack. Seems stupid that you don't know what you're getting until you open it. That's like buying a coffee machine and you don't know what color you'll get until you open the box. Clearly a gambling mechanic that was long overlooked and needs to be stopped.

[Heladys]

Here's the thing though, most parents don't know you can buy hundreds of dollars worth of shit in games.

To gamers, it sounds obvious because we've been dealing with this shit for years. But just like how fixing cars isn't necessarily obvious to non-menachically inclined people, neither is games rated for "Everyone" having literal gambling in it really obvious to the general population.

What do you expect parents to do, hover over their kids at all times to check if their games have microtransactions?

Here's the thing though, *intelligent* parents don't give their kids access to spend their money. That's the whole problem here. The fact that kids overspend when given the ability is completely self-evident and unavoidable so long as parents aren't holding the purse-strings.

[qwerty123456]

They really aren't that different. But people make excuses for it since Jim Sterling hasn't told people to turn on tcgs.

What I wonder is what the brilliant strategy of "Rated M for gambling" does for

1. Mtxs that don't use loot boxes
2. The fact there is no punishments or anything realistic to stop them.

I like that JT actually informs parents. But he can't do jackshit about a game bought through the console or steam stores.

They are pretty different. One is physical and a finite resource and is balanced around the game. Unless a kid is purchasing them online there is only so much they can buy. While Lootboxes are unlimited and are typically only purchasable with an unlimited money device(credit card).

And while some cards are more useful than others they are all cards for the game you won't have packs filled with shitty name tag stickers for cards with one percent of packs actually containing a game card you can use.

And Googling the prices of shit, the only horrendously priced cards I could find are after market cards someone else is selling (either a single that rare or discontinued box) and yet in many games with micro transactions they can have 50-100$ loot boxes for a digital only item.


Also whats the average lifetime of a Fifa game? EA has made 10 Fifa games since 2009. Maybe if it was a single player game you could justify having hundreds of dollars in microtransactions if it could potentially last as long as baseball cards, pokemon, MTG, etc but when the majority of the playerbase moves on to the next game after a year thats just plain evil.

Not only that but many games with micro transactions then make limited time events and shit in game that require micro transactions to either complete the even or rank higher in it depending on what type of event it is. Example: Raid Shadow Legends is a pretty good mobile game but this last event they did required hundreds of dollars of Mtxs to even get close to completing it. You aren't going to be seeing the Yu-Gi-Oh! company have a 10 day card event that requires a Blue Eyes White Dragon but dozens of Mtx games do.


I'm sure there are more reasons why also but thats all I could think of off the top of my head.

[Dextroden]

They are pretty different. One is physical and a finite resource and is balanced around the game. Unless a kid is purchasing them online there is only so much they can buy. While Lootboxes are unlimited and are typically only purchasable with an unlimited money device(credit card).

And while some cards are more useful than others they are all cards for the game you won't have packs filled with shitty name tag stickers for cards with one percent of packs actually containing a game card you can use.

And Googling the prices of shit, the only horrendously priced cards I could find are after market cards someone else is selling (either a single that rare or discontinued box) and yet in many games with micro transactions they can have 50-100$ loot boxes for a digital only item.


Also whats the average lifetime of a Fifa game? EA has made 10 Fifa games since 2009. Maybe if it was a single player game you could justify having hundreds of dollars in microtransactions if it could potentially last as long as baseball cards, pokemon, MTG, etc but when the majority of the playerbase moves on to the next game after a year thats just plain evil.

Not only that but many games with micro transactions then make limited time events and shit in game that require micro transactions to either complete the even or rank higher in it depending on what type of event it is. Example: Raid Shadow Legends is a pretty good mobile game but this last event they did required hundreds of dollars of Mtxs to even get close to completing it. You aren't going to be seeing the Yu-Gi-Oh! company have a 10 day card event that requires a Blue Eyes White Dragon but dozens of Mtx games do.


I'm sure there are more reasons why also but thats all I could think of off the top of my head.

Mmm. Someone doesn't know about duel links to be saying that.

And if people are really dying on the physical hill, then casinos are fine for children since they can get actual money.

[qwerty123456]

Mmm. Someone doesn't know about duel links to be saying that.

And if people are really dying on the physical hill, then casinos are fine for children since they can get actual money.

Is duel links physical or a mobile game?

And its not just that its physical. If you read what I wrote I wrote that MTxs are put into games that are designed to get you to spend like crazy and these games typically have relatively short lifespans like Fifa's 1 year lifespan. Physical items would help tho especially when games price digital items even higher than the shit you can buy in stores.

[Dextroden]

Is duel links physical or a mobile game?

It's mobile with events that favor spending money. But it's mobile tcg, so I guess it's fine.

[Belize]

Here's the thing though, *intelligent* parents don't give their kids access to spend their money. That's the whole problem here. The fact that kids overspend when given the ability is completely self-evident and unavoidable so long as parents aren't holding the purse-strings.

Do me a favor, scroll back up, and give me a solution to kids spending money without their parents knowing, because they learnt how credit cards worked from watching them.


Also tell me how this solves the very common issue of saved payment methods for consoles that both kids and parents use.

- - - Updated - - -

It's mobile with events that favor spending money. But it's mobile tcg, so I guess it's fine.

Digital TCGs have not inherent value, due to cards being generally untradable, and having the ability to just vanish if the game shuts down, so I'd argue it's not fine.

[Popastique]

Do me a favor, scroll back up, and give me a solution to kids spending money without their parents knowing, because they learnt how credit cards worked from watching them.

Raise kids in a way that will make them feel fucken awful for just thinking about having to steal from their own parents? Good parenting ?