Uncommon observations on the new Night elf quest line.

[ravenmoon]

So I have heard a lot of talk, about various things, but now I am seeing the quest for myself, I have noticed the community not picking up on a few things and focusing heavily on others. This as always tends to skew the perspective of those who read the forums, and in the future creates distorted impressions. Saying that, here ar e afew things I noticed.

Opening Quest and Dilaogue between the Alliance Leaders.

• Anduin actually wants to help the night elves, but asks for a little bit more patience from Tyrande - who refuses
• Genn chooses to follow Tyrande and offer Worgen aid, but Velen stays silent and does nothing from the Draenei.
• Anduin neither forbids Genn nor Tyrande - indicating that he recgonises these are his allies, not his subjects. You get the impression he feels for this, but must play the strategist rather than the hero.0
• Anduin is the one that asks the alliance hero to help out - it is odd if you do this as a night elf though, you are spoken as if you aren't in with your races, but loyal first to the alliance. This comes as no surprise though, we have been framed as having a faction identity first before race, which is true of soldiers who put command before family.
• Maiev recognises your loyalty and welcomes your help, this is especially revealing if you play a mage, demon hunter, warlock or DK, powers that Maiev has previously hated and been hostile towards, showing a shift has happened, and you are now judged on your actions rather than the powers you wield, as if she now recognises that there are people who can sufficiently use corrupting powers without falling to the corruption and can be counted on. We saw this first happens when SHE frees the demon hunters, this comes as further evidence of her shift.

The NIght Elves in Darkshore:

• The Wardens finally join the fray.
• No sign of Illidari night elves helping unless you are a demon hunter
• No sign of any highborne helping either
• No sign of druid night elves
• No sign of night elf Moon priests either
• This seems the priest order thing is wardens, sentinels, huntresses and civilizans from the ships crew

Observations:

1. Tyrande at first appears sloppy and careless, as if she is disarmed her bow left, valuable tome carelessly left - but it is intuined that she is leaving clues for the kaldorei who she anticipates are following her.
2. Maiev once more things Tyrande is being foolish and recklessly risking her life. This is similar to WC3 when Tyrande frees Illidan, she seems reckless, but her actions are proven to be right. Thoughts: Night elves don't like reckless use of magic, but it sclear that sometimes things that are considered reckless by over-cautious people aren't actually at all. Who decides where the line is drawn? Clearly Azshara's lot delved too recklessly into magic, yet there clearly are actions that appear reckless but are not.
3. Maiev is convinced the ritual will kill her. Just like those who imprisoned Illidan thought his release a serious error - yet if he had languished in jail, the Legion would have won, even if Malfurion was the one that beat back Archimonde.
4. Maiev thinks the ritual will kill her, and Tyrande can't handle it. BUT she goes to aid Tyrande, not to stop her. THis is demonstration there has been a fundamental SHIFT in Maiev since the events of Legion. Old Maiev would have been pushing to stop Tyrande. And if your character is a demon hunter/mage or arcane user, remember Maiev has welcomed your aid. Her prejudices are re-aligning

In Auberdine as You Land

• We see some imba moves from Maiev and Shandris.
• Maiev acknowledges Teldrassil is lost, but none are giving up on darkshore
• The forsaken are palnning to blight the forest - why? I think it is to make sure the night elves can never return or live here again.
• Sira Moonwarden is shown to be clearly wavering in faith as you land in Auberdine, she wonders why Elune would allow this. Shandris advises her not to lose faith, as the horde wants, but
• It seems that Maiev is clearly back in command of the Wardens again.

Observation 2. You are not judged purely because you use arcane or fel magic by Maiev, but on your actions. This furthers my suspicion that there has been a shift in the rest of the night elves. They are not juding fel demon hunter users anymore purely based on the volatile magic they use, but based on whether they are loyal and their heart is true. The night elves are desperate, they won't turn away help because of prejudices that don't make sense.

Observation 3: The night elves are highly intelligent too (the lore has told us several times), if it makes no sense to be prejudiced against fel usage (like when it made no sense to be prejudiced against arcane users, they will adapt).

Observation 4: Legion really showed that all classes and magic types had people who would use them responsibly. I am noting DKs, Warlocks, DHs, previously shunned by night elves. Also note I don't add mages to that list, because night elves stopped shunning them in WC3, and openly welcomed their class back (even if there were some reservations about the particular highborne in the beginning, which now seem to have passed.

Historical Insight: It appears that when the night elves first conquered Kalimdor, it was not just the power of the arcane well of Eternity that fuelled their success, it was the sacred night warrior ritual that was the game changer. Showing how intertwined the various night elf orders were during those early empire days, before the arcane users got arrogant.

At the Moonwell of Purity in Bashal'aran

• The nature of the ritual suggests that the conquest was retaliatory, the night warrior is an avatar of wrathful vengeance. THis indicates that the night elves were frequently attacked and likely others sought to wipe them out. As night elves are generally peaceful, it stands to reason that the aracne warriors and priestly ones rose in vengeful wrath to eliminate evil, and the befoulment of their enemies.
• Tyrande is channelling arcane energy/power in the ritual. Once again it is clear that night elf priesthood is arcanised /arcane linked, this is not new, when they were introduced, their priesthood was distinctive with it's star/moon magic, when the magic types were clarified in wow, it was arcane - this matches the night elves arcane birth and power linked to the well, and the link Elune has to the WEll of eternity. It also serves to make their priesthood quite unique. This aspect is often ignored by players who loike to think night elves are purely nature based despite their name not being forest or nature elves but night elves, the fact that in history the divine, arcane and nature are really deeply intertwined in the night elves is lost on a lot of fans. They mostly recognise the nature parts but fail to observe the arcane at play.
• Tyrande zaps all the horde members at the end of her transformation, In this instance it is arcane power that is used.
• Elune magic on the offensive has only ever been shown as arcnae or void magic. However her defensive use of power has been holy. Not ever seen Tyrande or a preist of ELun use holy magic offensively like holy priests or paladins, they instead use arcane and of 8.1 we see void, but in War of the ancients, void (shadow) was used by pain mistresses)
• The time for mercy is passed, as Tyrande explains. Night elves are very merciful buit not endlessly so, they have compassion, but they will also strike. they are not pacifists, never were. There is a limit
• Tyrande once again zaps all the horde forces using Star arcane magic. THis is similar to the what balance druids use and what arcane mages of kaldorei settings like the ones we see in the Nighthold and Moonguard stronghold. THis is the night elves' unique type of magic, and it is arcane based. arcane and astral. This is another tribute to what the children of the stars mean even though the lore of that is still rather mysterious.
• When Tyrande confronts Nathanos, she switches gear, up the pace, arcane moon magic becomes void moon magic.
• We cannot dwellin the past, not with our very future at stake! Tyrande tells Maiev when she is surprised to be asked to command their forces: This again and again shows night elves willing to put past greviances and disagreements aside. Some think it surprising Tyrande and Malfurion and the ngiht elves would accept the shen'dralar or arcane users as if it is some impossible thing, yet they put those differences aside, Tyrande is the one that asks malfurion to accept the Demon hunters aid in Stormwind at the start of legion, wiling to give those wiling to help a chance, and having an uncanny perceptive ability to know when they can be trusted.
• Whether it is those that were guilty of murder like Maiev or Illidan, or those who were once on the wrong side, Tyrande and the story of the night elves have shown they ofc are willing to accept those who they were once at odds with when they are willing to fight for the right cause. Those who think Tyrande would never have accepted the nightborne don't know their lore at all, they forget the shen'dralar, the illidari, and they are shown it again with Maiev.

My observation: AT this point it seems Human races, dwarves, gnomes, void elves, lightforged and draenei are all in support of one another. Dashes my desire and hopes of night elf friendships with void elves and draenei - those either haven't happened yet (void elf) or are in the past (draenei)./

While the worgen are the only race to fully stand alongside the night elves here, the alliance war effort at least partially agrees to help as the war effort is accessbile from Kul'tiras

[Rozz]

I do agree that the NEs and Tyrande have changed, but not fundamentally. They only accepted outcasts out of necessity, rather than show a shift in ideology (which lead to a degree of tolerance, but wasn't based upon it). The only exception I can think of are the worgen, who they helped out of genuine guilt and kindness.

I don't think that unless there was a disaster that forced the NEs to look the other way and ask for handouts, they would ever accept the Illidari, Highborne, Maiev, etc. They are a race too proud to change until they're forced to. Tyrande accepted Highborne but hardly properly protected them when Maiev slaughtered them, she 'accepts' Illidari but still casts shade on lllidan, etc. I don't think she would accept races like the NB at all unless the situation demanded it. Tyrande at the end of the day, never changes and just reverts to a previous state when each expansion ends.

She will always feel she knows best, she will always cast doubt, and she will always beg for help from outcasts the second she needs meat shields for her people.

As for the Draenei, I can see why they sat out. They fought really hard for all of Legion, while most of the races did next to nothing. He deserves a break!

[Magnagarde]

[*]No sign of any highborne helping either

Mordent Evenshade is the Alliance elite NPC guarding a point captured by the night elves. The Highborne are definitely present.

[Moonstream]

This may not be the spot for this but it's what was nagging me at the beginning of the questline or has been covered somewhere else that I missed.

How come Tyrande completely does a 180 from her stance in the book, on retaking nelf land? In the book it seems she gets it, that the alliance cannot assist at the moment and would never let that cause a division with her people and the Alliance.

Impatience? I guess that does seem to be a reoccurring feature of hers.....

[Scrysis]

Nice to see a remembrance of the Night elf heritage in the spells. As an example, if you played a night elf priest in vanilla, the priest racial spell was an arcane, star-related damage spell.

[Kwento]

This may not be the spot for this but it's what was nagging me at the beginning of the questline or has been covered somewhere else that I missed.

How come Tyrande completely does a 180 from her stance in the book, on retaking nelf land? In the book it seems she gets it, that the alliance cannot assist at the moment and would never let that cause a division with her people and the Alliance.

Impatience? I guess that does seem to be a reoccurring feature of hers.....

Not impatience. Warcraft characters suffer from being written by multiple people, making it sometimes seem like they have multiple personality disorder.
Garrosh, Vol’jin, Baine, Thrall and many other characters are already like that.

[Leodok]

[*]Anduin is the one that asks the alliance hero to help out - it is odd if you do this as a night elf though, you are spoken as if you aren't in with your races, but loyal first to the alliance. This comes as no surprise though, we have been framed as having a faction identity first before race, which is true of soldiers who put command before family.[*] Maiev recognises your loyalty and welcomes your help, this is especially revealing if you play a mage, demon hunter, warlock or DK, powers that Maiev has previously hated and been hostile towards, showing a shift has happened, and you are now judged on your actions rather than the powers you wield, as if she now recognises that there are people who can sufficiently use corrupting powers without falling to the corruption and can be counted on. We saw this first happens when SHE frees the demon hunters, this comes as further evidence of her shift.

I think these are more related to gameplay limitations, they probably didn't want to make different versions for different races or classes.

No sign of druid night elves

Technically, Malfurion is there. There was also a lieutenant or something in the Horde questline, and I'm sure there are more druidic elements in the warfront itself.

The forsaken are palnning to blight the forest - why? I think it is to make sure the night elves can never return or live here again.

The night elves also have an advantage in the forests, so destroying parts of them makes it easier for the Horde to win.

Tyrande is channelling arcane energy/power in the ritual. Once again it is clear that night elf priesthood is arcanised /arcane linked, this is not new, when they were introduced, their priesthood was distinctive with it's star/moon magic, when the magic types were clarified in wow, it was arcane - this matches the night elves arcane birth and power linked to the well, and the link Elune has to the WEll of eternity. It also serves to make their priesthood quite unique. This aspect is often ignored by players who loike to think night elves are purely nature based despite their name not being forest or nature elves but night elves, the fact that in history the divine, arcane and nature are really deeply intertwined in the night elves is lost on a lot of fans. They mostly recognise the nature parts but fail to observe the arcane at play.
Tyrande zaps all the horde members at the end of her transformation, In this instance it is arcane power that is used.
Elune magic on the offensive has only ever been shown as arcnae or void magic. However her defensive use of power has been holy. Not ever seen Tyrande or a preist of ELun use holy magic offensively like holy priests or paladins, they instead use arcane and of 8.1 we see void, but in War of the ancients, void (shadow) was used by pain mistresses)
When Tyrande confronts Nathanos, she switches gear, up the pace, arcane moon magic becomes void moon magic.

I'm still not convinced it's arcane. They were against the use of arcane magic for a long time, there is a clear distiction between Elune's power and even the arcane that came straight from the Well of Eternity. Elune has also been associated with the Light a few times (creating Xe'ra and stuff). Her magic is Light, just not golden.
Light becoming Void also makes a lot more sense than Arcane doing the same, especially as Light and Shadow are said to be "two sides of the same coin". There's an association with the phases of the moon.

[omeomorfismo]

im sorry to break your speculation, but considering that we are in a game were npcs refeers to forsaken and dk as they are normal, to the point to call them explicity living, i doubt that maiev or nelf changed something about arcane/fel/necromancy users. its only game limitations that dont allow to have custom text for all combinations of culture-races/classes....

[Feanoro]

There are definitely druids, moon priestesses, dryads, ancients, hippogryphs, chimaeras, and sons of Cenarius available in the warfront itself.

[Kwento]

im sorry to break your speculation, but considering that we are in a game were npcs refeers to forsaken and dk as they are normal, to the point to call them explicity living, i doubt that maiev or nelf changed something about arcane/fel/necromancy users. its only game limitations that dont allow to have custom text for all combinations of culture-races/classes....

Game limitations have nothing to do with it. There are quests that give different texts depending on your character’s race. It’s just Blizzard being extremely lazy.

[ravenmoon]

I think these are more related to gameplay limitations, they probably didn't want to make different versions for different races or classes.

Yeh, they never do, but seeing that only rogues/warrior/hunters are none magic using classes, and judging from her actions in Legion, esp after her teaming up with Khadgar at the start, I am convinced she has changed.

It fits the night elves are desperate, but don't forget the night elves have drastically changed set views

Technically, Malfurion is there. There was also a lieutenant or something in the Horde questline, and I'm sure there are more druidic elements in the warfront itself.

Yes, loads in the warfront, was just referring to the opening sequence. But yes Malf is there.

The night elves also have an advantage in the forests, so destroying parts of them makes it easier for the Horde to win.

True, but with a destroyed land, night elves can't use, reclaiming becomes pointless no?

I'm still not convinced it's arcane. They were against the use of arcane magic for a long time, there is a clear distiction between Elune's power and even the arcane that came straight from the Well of Eternity. Elune has also been associated with the Light a few times (creating Xe'ra and stuff). Her magic is Light, just not golden.
Light becoming Void also makes a lot more sense than Arcane doing the same, especially as Light and Shadow are said to be "two sides of the same coin". There's an association with the phases of the moon.

It definitely is the arcane. It always has been, and I'm glad it hasn't changed because I still believe it is significant and offers clues into understanding the Night elves that are easy to miss because we haven't had much moon priestess action in wow for Night elves, mostly druid and sentinel, and more recently mages.

The lore actually doesn't prohibit it as being arcane, the clue on why lies in figuring out what exactly the night elves relation, reaction and views on the arcane were rather than generalise.

I have always believed that with night elves, blizzard tried to be a bit more mysterious and clever. Enigmatic was their approach, so many things aren't so straightforward. This is intentional, and meant to entice the more curious

Observation and Theory on arcane
Given all the clues given in the lore since Wc3, and assuming it is a cohesive mystery that has had clues to piece together, this is what i have come to conclude things work with the night elves and the arcane, sorcery, the priest and druid spells. Blizzard doesn't really explain, they tell a story and show things working, but leave it up to y ou to figure it out. Sometimes things do make sense with a bit of figuring out and clue finding. Some people give up on the mystery and chalk it down to blizz retcons or laziness/carelessness, but sometimes there is a logic and it isnt random or careless, but specifically designed.

Arcane and Sorcery, What was actually Banned and why
Night elves technically were against the use of sorcery from the well of eternity power source because it's usage lit up Azeroth like a beacon in the twisting nether drawing the legion. Also, the Well of Eternity was the only power source sufficient enough to power a gateway for the legion to invade and for sorcery to be used as night elves knew it and on the scale they were used to. Remember night elves only later discover how to use magic from the atmosphere due to the magic released into it from the implosion of the first well. As far as they knew at that point, sorcery was only possible from the Well of Eternity and this was banned to prevent the Legion.

You must bear in mind what sorcery is too, its not any odd arcane magic usage, like some troll spells or creature spells will be arcane, it is an advanced discipline, a high level, highly mastered craft of great complexity and power.. this is what the mage class is and it is this that is banned for the power it draws. Remmebr the lore has them using magic to do phenomenal works, building their cities like Suramar was one such example using arcane power of the well and nature magic of the druidic ancient trees. It is powerful magic that can win wars, landscape environments, cities, forests as well as a whole bunch of complex and intensive applications, to the point that near the legions arrival, the constant churning of the well through usage has many night elves concerned, with ominous foreboding that the highborne in Zin'azshari or over doing it.

This is why the arcane is important in understanding so much about the night elves, and helps to understand why it makes sense that it is accepted now and not hated like some fans assume (its not bad writing from Nlizzard or blizz forgetting their own lore), and how intrinsic the arcane is to the night elf, which is why the race is not called nature elf or forest elf.

A lot of moon/star spells draw their arcane source from the stars and moon itself, hence they are not sorcery and hence not banned. Those dont come from the well, now if the power of those spells was boosted by the well, that woukd be sorcery, and that was banned.

Long Vigil Sorcery Not Arcane Prejudice
Night elf prejudice was never towards the arcane itself anyway, it was towards arrogance and reckless use of magic, especially seeing whose attention it drew. The arcane properties of the 2nd well of eternity are used constantly throughout the long vigil in moonwells boosting life and undergo a blessing purification by the priests and a tie to the land by the druids demonstrating arcane, divine and nature working in tandem all throughout the ling vigil. The only thing missing is sorcery because it uses the Well and well usage draws the legion.

In the long vigil, night elves did not forget or just subtract the arcane from their lives like the less diligent lore fan assumes from mis construed forum discussions, no, they simply altered how and in what way they related to it, it still is a very large part of their life, and it takes this expression because of the Legion. This is why some fans now expect night elves to combine the best of the pre-sundering era with the best of the long vigil era to give the full recovery of the night elves, now the legion is gone and the huge missing sorcery component is back in their society.

Long vigil Highborne (a good portion who become high elves) are banned because they attempt to use this during the long vigil and are exiled.

Quel'thalas, Dalaran and how They fit
Why do you think the night elves dont invade Quel'thalas or Dalaran later, it's because they are using arcane magic not from the well of eternity source, the high elves sunwelll signature is masked by the Ban'dinoriel, however human use is from the techniques discovered by the elves of using arcane from the atmosphere.

The night elves were not aware the demons could trace and find Azeroth through those means, they likely weren't even aware sorcery could be used without the well, just as they didnt believe Darth'remar when he postulated the arcane could be used successfully hidden from the twisting nether. Something the shen'dralar were doing straight up after the sundering, but cleverly enough. Sorcey to a night elf would be on a whole different scale to what human mages were doing, and quite possibly allow them to fly under the radar. High elf magic using tthe sunwelll woukd have been closer, except the sunwell and high elf magic usage was properly masked by the ban'dinoriel and it was a much weaker well of power.

Conclusions
Night elf attitude towards the arcane is not straightforward as many want it to be. But the night elf is Made from the arcane, and is filled with its power, this is why night elf and nightborne alike eyes glow silver. Once the nightwell is drained, the eyes of the nightborne still glow silver, because their night elven make up isn't removed by the nightwell transformation, the nightwell change adds to it, so when the nightwell is gone, the underlying power is still there. The high elves however on exiled are cut off, one of the lore sources says the druids cut them off, this is why the exile was so hard, no more immunities, no more immortality from the tree, but also no well connection, so their eyes stop glowing silver, their skin and hair change overtime, when Darth'remar arrives in Quel'thalas in the comic, his hair is already Blondie red, and his skin colour hue is is only a little purple, by the time the sunwelll is up and Quel'thalas built they are pink/ skinned.

[Highelf]

The only observation I made was Malfurion who is basically a demi god and Tyrande who is now, went toe to toe with an undead hunter that used to be a loot piñata.

[Deleted]

Nice observations indeed. My thoughts:

- in the Tyrande scenario and even Warfront itself, priesthood of Elune is missing. Priestesses are almost nowhere to find, except with NPC at the Altar of Elders. Given that many priestesses died during the Burning, I wonder how their sisterhood fares these days, especially with Tyrande's new status of Night Warrior. I have a feeling she is stepping down from the position of High Priestess, but it's still too soon to judge.
- BfA focuses heavily on death themes (Drust and Blighted Lands, Loa of Death, Sylvanas and her "in the end, they will all serve me" attitude, etc.), I wonder if Tyrande as a night warrior will be able to summon vengeful spirits like Wardens did. I actually quite expected that considering Night Warrior is to be pinacle of Elune's Vengeance.
- As the powers of Night Warrior hints heavily on shadow and void, I wonder if there will be interactions with Void elves in the future?

On more general topics:
- Night elves are not the only one responsible for the bad relations with Sin'dorei. You know, during Third War, when Tyrande and Maiev traveled to Lordaeron to chase Illidan, they helped Kael without any hostilities. They seemed to have no real problem with blood elves who practise magic. When night elves joined the Alliance, they also shown little concerns for human, gnome and later draenei mages. I believe the main point is that blood elves were toying with dangerous and unpredictable magic, closely tied to the Legion. In the eyes of night elves, such power could easily bring attention of the Legion and also feared that power hungry elves would betray Azeroth to the Legion once again, which actually happened. It is even more reinforced by fact that the Alliance is home of High Elves, which refused the dangerous use of magic, and some of them were allowed to stay in Kalimdor (Fiora Longears).
- Tyrande didn't express any hate towards Shal'dorei. She was only cautious, because she remembered the role they played in the War of Ancients, which was that they cowardly hide from the rest of the world. She never mentioned she have problem with their culture and use of magic. That fear is only brought by Thalyssra, but it have no real evidence with her conversation with Tyrande herself. The fact that Shal'dorei joined Horde, which burned night elven forests only few months later, actually proved Tyrande right with her concerns regarding Nighborne and their future "betrayal". Tyrande was only wrong that Shal'dorei was urged by lust for freedom, not for power.
- I really wish night elves will form new seat of power (aka Capital) in Kalimdor. They need to be there. I also believe it will be nice if Blizzard makes capitals for several races, instead of having multiple dead cities. In my mind, I can imagine capital in Kalimdor for Night elves, Worgen and Void elves (as for the noctural and dark races of the Alliance), Stormwind for Humans, Draenei, Lightforged - for the light worshipping races of the Alliance, and Ironforge for Dwarves, Gnomes and Dark Irons - for the technical and industial races of the Alliance. Same for the Horde of course.

[Ornerybear]

while i appreciate and am intrigued by your observations, i think it is important to be careful making lore conclusions based off gameplay interactions

[Deleted]

Night Elves consist of:

Sisterhood of Elune (which is gone)
Druidism (taken from them and were given to horde as well)
Ancients (afk, no mention of them like they don't even exist)
Demon hunters (taken from them and were given to horde as well)
Wardens (now horde has a loyal and willing dark wardens)
Sentinels (punching bags)
High priestess of Elune (no longer exist and turned to night warrior)
First Archdruid who saved the world several times (nerfed to the ground)

Blizz should've changed the name of this race tbh.

Regarding Sisterhood, I would wait how the story will go until claiming they are gone. Blizzard do not care about numbers or consistency, so even if it looks like most of the priestesses burned, Blizzard never officialy confirmed it, so they can still pull army of priestesses at any time. The fact they are missing in this scenario and Warfront does not mean they are gone. I am more interested in seeing how the Sisterhood will change with Tyrande's status of Night Warrior, and I hope Blizzard will not turn them into vengeful fanatics which are later going to be redeemed by humanity.
I also don't really see necessity to turn Tyrande into vengeance driven character, since we already have Maiev. They could easily make them active both in the conflict, having their own distinctive traits established in lore... but I guess Blizzard likes to have some changes.

As for others... yes, druids were turned neutral mostly for gameplay issues, and still it feels the whole class is strongly build around night elves. Addition of Zandalari and Kul Tiran make it different a little, but it's still too late to keep night elven druidism solely only for night elves (and worgen to some extent). Demon Hunters are "neutral" since Burning Legion and blood elven demon hunters make sense, given the connection Illidan had with Kael. Horde have one single Dark Warden, which is killed shortly after, on the other hand now we see previously neutral wardens fighting for the Kaldorei only. I do agree with the image of sentinels thou.

I really hope that next warfront will be Northern Barrens, where the Alliance is attacking from Ashenvale, which would imply that Darkshore and majority of Ashenvale was reclaimed. One may dream.

[Beloren]

Night elves are even more boring now. I did the warfront, - and I was like..what is this?

Night elves window to be interesting has passed. they have shipped everything amazing about them away from them.

1. Immortality - shipped to teh draenei/forsaken
2. Arcane well of power - shipped to the blood elves
3. Children of the stars shit - shipped to the Pandaren.
4. Priesthood priest stuff - shipped to draenei
5. Elven arcane stuff - discontinued, night elven arcane stuff revived but kept away from them.
6. Demon hunter stuff - shared with blood elves [ the only thing that is genuinely shared]
7. Druidsm - slowly turned over to tauren/troll/human
8. Wild gods - ported over to the trolls

technically everything in this list is shared except immortality - at least in lore. Problem is none of them play a meaningful role in them in game - as far as exposure goes apart from druidsm.Now Night elves are just about trees and woods, they were cool when this was just one aspect of a star filled world of wonder - with wonder filled arcane side that had the promise of returning too add to that and the mystic of the moon goddess elements in the priesthood, in their origin, the connection it has betwen arcane and light and nature with more mystery coming... it could have been something i could have really liked, but its just so dead boring, has been so for a long time.

I think this dark moon night warrior stuff is too little too late, i don't see them doing anything but little doggy bones for fans. Blizzard don't really go big scale on races, it's all about the alliance and the horde fighting and tearing each other down, - and while they went big showing you night elf empire in 7.0 and troll empire in 8.0 , when they tell the story

- - - Updated - - -

Night Elves consist of:

Sisterhood of Elune (which is gone)
Druidism (taken from them and were given to horde as well)
Ancients (afk, no mention of them like they don't even exist)
Demon hunters (taken from them and were given to horde as well)
Wardens (now horde has a loyal and willing dark wardens)
Sentinels (punching bags)
High priestess of Elune (no longer exist and turned to night warrior)
First Archdruid who saved the world several times (nerfed to the ground)

Blizz should've changed the name of this race tbh.

omg.. I just saw your post.. literally after writing mine. And I'm a horde fun.. lol.. this is soo uncany. You didn't mention the night elf star and arcane stuff too, but don't worry i caught that.

Night elves are boring, bland, and the only people they will appeal to are naturiests, when they could have felt like a proper race. Now they are some niche forest elf group.

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Nice observations indeed. My thoughts:

- in the Tyrande scenario and even Warfront itself, priesthood of Elune is missing. Priestesses are almost nowhere to find, except with NPC at the Altar of Elders. Given that many priestesses died during the Burning, I wonder how their sisterhood fares these days, especially with Tyrande's new status of Night Warrior. I have a feeling she is stepping down from the position of High Priestess, but it's still too soon to judge.
- BfA focuses heavily on death themes (Drust and Blighted Lands, Loa of Death, Sylvanas and her "in the end, they will all serve me" attitude, etc.), I wonder if Tyrande as a night warrior will be able to summon vengeful spirits like Wardens did. I actually quite expected that considering Night Warrior is to be pinacle of Elune's Vengeance.
- As the powers of Night Warrior hints heavily on shadow and void, I wonder if there will be interactions with Void elves in the future?

On more general topics:
- Night elves are not the only one responsible for the bad relations with Sin'dorei. You know, during Third War, when Tyrande and Maiev traveled to Lordaeron to chase Illidan, they helped Kael without any hostilities. They seemed to have no real problem with blood elves who practise magic. When night elves joined the Alliance, they also shown little concerns for human, gnome and later draenei mages. I believe the main point is that blood elves were toying with dangerous and unpredictable magic, closely tied to the Legion. In the eyes of night elves, such power could easily bring attention of the Legion and also feared that power hungry elves would betray Azeroth to the Legion once again, which actually happened. It is even more reinforced by fact that the Alliance is home of High Elves, which refused the dangerous use of magic, and some of them were allowed to stay in Kalimdor (Fiora Longears).
- Tyrande didn't express any hate towards Shal'dorei. She was only cautious, because she remembered the role they played in the War of Ancients, which was that they cowardly hide from the rest of the world. She never mentioned she have problem with their culture and use of magic. That fear is only brought by Thalyssra, but it have no real evidence with her conversation with Tyrande herself. The fact that Shal'dorei joined Horde, which burned night elven forests only few months later, actually proved Tyrande right with her concerns regarding Nighborne and their future "betrayal". Tyrande was only wrong that Shal'dorei was urged by lust for freedom, not for power.
- I really wish night elves will form new seat of power (aka Capital) in Kalimdor. They need to be there. I also believe it will be nice if Blizzard makes capitals for several races, instead of having multiple dead cities. In my mind, I can imagine capital in Kalimdor for Night elves, Worgen and Void elves (as for the noctural and dark races of the Alliance), Stormwind for Humans, Draenei, Lightforged - for the light worshipping races of the Alliance, and Ironforge for Dwarves, Gnomes and Dark Irons - for the technical and industial races of the Alliance. Same for the Horde of course.

Yeah.. I think you are right here, for a change what OP is saying makes a lot of sense too. I am beginning to agree it is fans that have mixed things up a bit.

Night elves technically were against the use of sorcery from the well of eternity power source because it's usage lit up Azeroth like a beacon in the twisting nether drawing the legion.

Night elf prejudice was never towards the arcane itself anyway, it was towards arrogance and reckless use of magic, especially seeing whose attention it drew.

This actuall has a logic to it, but you can't forget that it was not just that, they were also angry at the highborne for being ARROGANT and that arrogance leading to what they did.

So they are both staying away from arcane only because it brings back the legion, and all things highborne - at least palace highborne because of what that group did.

Question then becomes, what are that night elf groups reaction when they meet other highborne? i.e. shen'dralar, nightborne highborne and Farondis highborne too - these are 3 groups that have remarkably different behaviour and attitude to the classic Azshara highborne. They already met the darth'remar highborne who become high elves, and they were also different - but their problem was they were part of the group that actually opened the portals, the other 3 highborne groups were not, especially the Farondis highborne who were the first to rebel and try to stop the queen.

Why does everyone continue to assume night elves will hate these night elves because they are highborne? I mean how dumb is that.

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while i appreciate and am intrigued by your observations, i think it is important to be careful making lore conclusions based off gameplay interactions

I'm not so sure, the precedence is that it is all canon until a direct source paints differently, then you can just chalk it down to a gameplay interaction or blizzard inconsistency.

He was buffed by Valkrys. When we killed 1 he runed away.

btw. don't u think that Malfurion in this scenario is weird? He says few words. He didn't even ask Tyrande how she feel after transformation.

He sounds so corny and cliched, like a trophy husband. It's hilarious.

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Regarding Sisterhood, I would wait how the story will go until claiming they are gone. Blizzard do not care about numbers or consistency, so even if it looks like most of the priestesses burned, Blizzard never officialy confirmed it, so they can still pull army of priestesses at any time. The fact they are missing in this scenario and Warfront does not mean they are gone. I am more interested in seeing how the Sisterhood will change with Tyrande's status of Night Warrior, and I hope Blizzard will not turn them into vengeful fanatics which are later going to be redeemed by humanity.
I also don't really see necessity to turn Tyrande into vengeance driven character, since we already have Maiev. They could easily make them active both in the conflict, having their own distinctive traits established in lore... but I guess Blizzard likes to have some changes.

As for others... yes, druids were turned neutral mostly for gameplay issues, and still it feels the whole class is strongly build around night elves. Addition of Zandalari and Kul Tiran make it different a little, but it's still too late to keep night elven druidism solely only for night elves (and worgen to some extent). Demon Hunters are "neutral" since Burning Legion and blood elven demon hunters make sense, given the connection Illidan had with Kael. Horde have one single Dark Warden, which is killed shortly after, on the other hand now we see previously neutral wardens fighting for the Kaldorei only. I do agree with the image of sentinels thou.

I really hope that next warfront will be Northern Barrens, where the Alliance is attacking from Ashenvale, which would imply that Darkshore and majority of Ashenvale was reclaimed. One may dream.

And you're forgetting night elf arcane wing and highborne too.

My version ----
Is it just me or would it not have been cool that when you went on the alliance you experienced night elf arcane with cities and mages, night elf forestry and wilds with the druids and nature, night elf priesthood with Elune and their unique vein of religion. Then when you went on the horde, the elven stuff you experienced was blood elven arcane stuff with it's bright day theme, golds and reds in its own unique make up, with it's light based elven paladin/priesthood and its farstrider/botanist forestry and nature stuff? So that both sides were clearly different and distinct? I don't get why the nightborne or at least the night elven stuff they have aren't on the alliance. The few nightborne that get to join the horde should not really bring any night elf based stuff, they should lose that to the alliance, then we get to see what their reaction is lwhen they experience wonderful world of Blood elves

Vice versa for the few void elves that get to join the alliance, don't bring any of the blood elf based stuff with them either from the horde, and we get to see them react to night elf cities like Suramar, forests like val'sharah and temples like Elune - especially now Elune is showing void stuff. [pst, I like the idea of someone wrote about having nightborne linked to the sunwell and having some lighter skin tones, I think it was topic here a few months ago]

While I don't mind a little mixture, of personnel, the elven night theme thing should exist on one faction, and the day/thalassian thing on the other in a 2 faction system - any thalassian elf on the alliance should be an exile /refuge group that has to make do with buddying up with the alliance elves or humans, like wise any night elf on the horde should be an exile/refuge group that makes do with buddying up with the horde elves. So when they clash in battle, it's a clear night vs day thing. I think I would have liked that more. it's weird i was gloating so much that we got both the best of the night elves and the blood elves, but now it's boring - and i must admit, i'd much rather a redone silvermoon than suramar - I hated questing in it.

[Deleted]

And you're forgetting night elf arcane wing and highborne too.

My version ----
Is it just me or would it not have been cool that when you went on the alliance you experienced night elf arcane with cities and mages, night elf forestry and wilds with the druids and nature, night elf priesthood with Elune and their unique vein of religion. Then when you went on the horde, the elven stuff you experienced was blood elven arcane stuff with it's bright day theme, golds and reds in its own unique make up, with it's light based elven paladin/priesthood and its farstrider/botanist forestry and nature stuff? So that both sides were clearly different and distinct? I don't get why the nightborne or at least the night elven stuff they have aren't on the alliance. The few nightborne that get to join the horde should not really bring any night elf based stuff, they should lose that to the alliance, then we get to see what their reaction is lwhen they experience wonderful world of Blood elves

Vice versa for the few void elves that get to join the alliance, don't bring any of the blood elf based stuff with them either from the horde, and we get to see them react to night elf cities like Suramar, forests like val'sharah and temples like Elune - especially now Elune is showing void stuff. [pst, I like the idea of someone wrote about having nightborne linked to the sunwell and having some lighter skin tones, I think it was topic here a few months ago]

While I don't mind a little mixture, of personnel, the elven night theme thing should exist on one faction, and the day/thalassian thing on the other in a 2 faction system - any thalassian elf on the alliance should be an exile /refuge group that has to make do with buddying up with the alliance elves or humans, like wise any night elf on the horde should be an exile/refuge group that makes do with buddying up with the horde elves. So when they clash in battle, it's a clear night vs day thing. I think I would have liked that more. it's weird i was gloating so much that we got both the best of the night elves and the blood elves, but now it's boring - and i must admit, i'd much rather a redone silvermoon than suramar - I hated questing in it.

I agree with you. Nightborne should go Alliance and Void elves Horde. The way they choose is... awkward. Suramar campaign showed us how nightfallen were humbled and wanted to learn from their mistakes. Interactions with Vale keeper and Moon guard and Val'sharah refugees set up solid background and ties with Kaldorei. The decision Thalyssra made to destroy Nightwell felt more like something night elf would do. Shal'dorei joining Alliance would bring more interesting storytelling potential - showing us how the rest of Kaldorei overcome their distrust towards spellcasters and embrace their arcane heritage. To be honest, Nightborne brings nothing new to the Horde, since they already have spellcasting arrogant aristocrat elves already, only in different colors. In the same way, Void elves would bring that dangerous flavor to blood elves they lost after restoration of Sunwell. Like it or not, Sin'dorei are now just more pretty humans on the horde. They lost their spark over years. Void elves could be way to give them their sinister and dark appeal back. I am also not fan of sharing sillouetes and themes among factions...

I also agree that this Night Warrior is just cheap offer for desperate fans. I also think they should stay strickly with stellar/lunar/astral themes with night elves and do not mess with void there. They say this is beginning of the new storytelling for night elves, so let's see. So far, stories around night elves were disapointing as hell, especially Good War and Ellegy - it was clear that Teldrasill will be lost, but at least sentinels could track horde rogues and slaughter them instead of getting ganked by them in their own forest. It would change nothing, Horde already outnumbered sentinels greatly, but it would atleast showed nelves in better light, which would make Horde fans more happy to fight decent enemy, and Alliance fans happy that they fight fiercely. Instead we got what we got...

[ravenmoon]

I also agree that this Night Warrior is just cheap offer for desperate fans. I also think they should stay strickly with stellar/lunar/astral themes with night elves and do not mess with void there.

I'm all for new stuff, but I think blizzard has a lot of good stuff going in the night elves they should rather bring back to life, than focus on new void stuff.

It makes no sense discarding night elf identity and core pillars before they were even fleshed out. Elune, the arcane, the wardens, demon hunters, sentinels - only druidsm has serious air time with the night elves in wow and it still has a lot of gaps with wild gods, emerald dream etc, it's not even told and they've taken most of druidsm to other non-elf races. And they are children of the stars... you know.. STARS!! - where's that stuff? where is them showing sentinels are badass and powerful without a night warrior buff.. the power level in the lore for the night elves is potentially quite high.. it seems a bit silly to add new stuff without first reviving some of the existing stuff - I mean they have great arcane expertise from highborne and still have connection to the Well of Eternity, they have great nature expertise from druids AND wild gods, not to mention access to a world tree that is natural in to the Emerald dream. Then off course Elune, which we have aseen a little more of, nice to see a darkside, but we are still clueless on the side we've been aware of since the start.


So really, I am thinking they need to reconnect them with their arcane and druidic powers, and delve more into the elune stuff then they can add the void thing. The void thing they can use to connect to the void elves, it will be interesting how they play this. But seeing how few night elves, they can start using the well of eternity, use shaladrassil and the emerald dream and Elune's night warrior dark moon stuff, and become really powerful, it is still not an army.

So far, stories around night elves were disapointing as hell, especially Good War and Ellegy - it was clear that Teldrasill will be lost, but at least sentinels could track horde rogues and slaughter them instead of getting ganked by them in their own forest. It would change nothing, Horde already outnumbered sentinels greatly, but it would atleast showed nelves in better light, which would make Horde fans more happy to fight decent enemy, and Alliance fans happy that they fight fiercely. Instead we got what we got...

It's nice to see there are some fans who still see this. I guess most of the ones who cared, stopped playing a long time ago. But totally right. Druids are lords of the forest, it was terrible to see a horde rogue gank druids in their own forest. I would have written the druids to have been tearing into their most elite forces, and given the blood elf a genius idea of exposing them or luring them so that the numbers of the army could get hold of them, then given the druids a hell of a battle scene before killing them off.


But sometimes I wonder if I over estimate the night elves or the developers just don't study their own lore well enough. It was like the highborne shen'dralar in Cataclysm, they should have been turning some battles they were involved with with the sort of magic they are supposed to possess, but I don't think you see one shen'dralar fight anything, except Estulan beating up that Ogre - they did get it right when they showed the nightborne, even though the nightborne get beaten, they looked powerful and like they were a group who's arcane magic 10,000 years ago was above everyone elses, let alone having 10,000 years to improve - even if in limited settings and slowly. Though the moonguard really eat into the nightborne attackers taking far more of them out they do them, the nightborne still look quite strong when you invade the city and when you invade the nighthold. That's how you do it.

I agree with you. Nightborne should go Alliance and Void elves Horde. The way they choose is... awkward. Suramar campaign showed us how nightfallen were humbled and wanted to learn from their mistakes. Interactions with Vale keeper and Moon guard and Val'sharah refugees set up solid background and ties with Kaldorei. The decision Thalyssra made to destroy Nightwell felt more like something night elf would do. Shal'dorei joining Alliance would bring more interesting storytelling potential - showing us how the rest of Kaldorei overcome their distrust towards spellcasters and embrace their arcane heritage. To be honest, Nightborne brings nothing new to the Horde, since they already have spellcasting arrogant aristocrat elves already, only in different colors. In the same way, Void elves would bring that dangerous flavor to blood elves they lost after restoration of Sunwell. Like it or not, Sin'dorei are now just more pretty humans on the horde. They lost their spark over years. Void elves could be way to give them their sinister and dark appeal back. I am also not fan of sharing sillouetes and themes among factions...

Agreed spot on. On every point. The nightfallen rebels, are exactly converted through a very similar humbling experience into what the long vigil/post vigil darnassian types are, bringing out (like it did with them) the original night elven code of honour/conduct, humbling experience etc. In this format, they match the darnassians well in vision and identity while differing from them enormously culturally with the pre-sundering era culture and their use of arcane magic. It made them ideal candidates to partner up, the exact same thing with the Farondis too, especially Prince Farondis himself, you felt you were dealing with the noble (i.e. highborne) counterpart of Malfurion Stormrage that wielded devastating arcane magic instead nature magic. His honour, his sense of right and wrong, his willingness to make amends, even though his highborne actually rebelled against Azshara, notice how he is also humbled by the treatment his people give him, but doesn't side with the queen or go back on it, does the right thing even further, and his entire people fall in line with him when they see what's gone on. Look at how he refuses to let the renegade ghosts abuse the arcane to lift the curse - that is so kaldorei - people think kaldorei are anti-magic, but no they are anti foolish reckless behaviour, not anti-arcane. Thalyssra's nightborne rebels and FArondis fit perfectly in the alliance.
@Mace was saying how they should split the nighborne to fix this, causing most of the rebel bunch to defect to the alliance kaldorei, and help them, and eventually turn back into kaldorei, while a fewer amount stay nightborne and go over the horde.

I'm not sure the situation is fixable however. void elves in my opinion are exactly how nightborne should have gone down with the horde, a small group, exiled. And while you are right that void elves could have given a darker edge to the blood elves, restoring part of their original thing to them, the truth is they can achieve that via shadow priests, warlocks and especially san'layn allied race which would actually be more fitting for that.


I would say, to fix things, a remnant of nightborne remain on the horde, get linked to the sunwell, live with the blood elves, while the void elves forge ties with night elves over the dark moon stuff, the void elves are already a remnant group. Then introduce the san'layn as a blood elf allied race, and use them to bring the evil side. Meanwhile most of the nightborne defected to the alliance and turned back into kaldorei so alliance don't get nightborne, but they get the rebels and nightborne who share their vision and they get their night stuff. Win win win.




But, never going to happen, never, never , never. Because 1. I have seen no sign of void elves and night elves getting along. 2. I have seen no action or movement from the nightborne showing interest in the kaldorei or dissatisfied with the horde - they are quite fine with completely forgetting who they were in 7.0 , the san'layn had a small chance of becoming an allied race, but the guy died - blizzard make it so hard to get into their lore these days.

I think this dark moon night warrior stuff is too little too late, i don't see them doing anything but little doggy bones for fans. Blizzard don't really go big scale on races, it's all about the alliance and the horde fighting and tearing each other down, - and while they went big showing you night elf empire in 7.0 and troll empire in 8.0 , when they tell the story

I think it still has potential, but I am not optimistic about it, night elf stuff is very good for disappointing.

But for the rest of what you said, /jaw drop --- so people do actually see this stuff, I thought people didn't care enough about night elves to even bother noticing.
I like your version of things, it has a consistency to it, rather than jumbling everything with it. Wow use to be faction based strongly divided on racial lines. Yes some allying and sometimes crossing occurred, but it was very much the minority - each group was in a sense "distinct" by their racial identity.

wow today is everyone doesn't matter, it's all squashed together and given a faction identity, so everyone gets pretty much everything, and we can mix and match. On your horde side, blood elves quite happily mix with orcs and trolls and tauren or forsaken rather than looking down at them, pissed off to have to be with them or downward struggling to hold down their hate because of how they remind them of the scourge. Instead they get along all rosy and peach, like they are one united family whose identity is not blood elf or orc or forsaken, but is horde. Race is only secondary and flavour. The only identity that matters is faction.

I don't like it. I think it is a big mistake, I think it is the easier option, giving up the rich diversity people got attached to their race and character because they have so much depth, to then erode that and drive the story forward in terms of factions mainly weakens it.

[Highelf]

He was buffed by Valkrys. When we killed 1 he runed away.

btw. don't u think that Malfurion in this scenario is weird? He says few words. He didn't even ask Tyrande how she feel after transformation.

He was buffed by one. Didn't malf tank the other while we dps it down? Is one Valk really supposed to be that strong?

[Kelthos]

I wish every nelf lore thread didnt have the same handful of posters who insist on every one of their posts being an 8 page thesis... :<