The term 'BiS'

[tclphz]

You run a raid, you get a helm with your 2 best stats. You get it. You're now done. You will not replace that piece for the rest of the tier. You do that more times for each piece of gear. You now have no real reason to run the raid again. There are no more possible ups. There is no more progression to be had. This is bad.

I was paraphrasing a very common statement I've seen on this forums. That doing the same raid/dungeon on a higher difficulty does not constitute content, nor does doing it again on alts. A statement I disagree with.

Probably because these people will only play games on easiest difficulty setting and never try anything higher.

[GreenJesus]

An item isn't BiS unless it titanforged to max item level because a shitty item that's 15 ilv higher can be better than your "BiS" item

[FelPlague]

Every so often I come across something in WoW that I should know, but is suddenly confusing.

What does BiS mean, to you?

Last night a helm dropped that was an upgrade for me. Let's call it helm 1. I went to various guides before rolling and seen that it was listed as BiS. I said this in my note, but as we discussed the helm, someone replied to me saying it's not my BiS, in fact helm 2 is much better. I was fuzzy thinking at the time and let it go.

Today I asked around and people are saying that the guy that simmed using dropoptimizer, is an idiot, because he simmed my current gear. Meaning that helm 1 is better for me over helm 2, right now, but helm 1 is still BiS overall.

That brings me onto what BiS actually means, because I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. I always thought BiS means 'the best possible gear set' so if I had the that list, it'd be the best I could have. Other people say BiS lists are trash and they say because it doesn't take into account your current gear. Which, as I wrote above, is what got that other guy called an idiot. Some people also say BiS just means 'a good piece of gear'

So what do you think about BiS lists?

1. Does BiS mean 'this item is best in slot' IF you have every other item on this list.
2. Does BiS mean 'this item is the best item you can get right now with your current gear'

"Best in slot" means you will not be replacing it
it does not mean "it is better then the item i currently have"


If you are in mythic, trying to a 415 weapon, and you have a 400 weapon.
a random 410 dropping is not sudenly your "BIS" your "BIS" is still the 415 with the correct stats.

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An item isn't BiS unless it titanforged to max item level because a shitty item that's 15 ilv higher can be better than your "BiS" item

and titanforging to the max titanforging level is quite easy... cause itso nly 420.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

So you prefer the "I've got my BiS, done the achieves, downed the final boss, I'm done I can unsub until next tier" way?

Yeah, except that people always continued raiding to get everybody else their BiS aswell, get everybody their "last boss mounts", and just competing for logs/speed kills all the way up until the next tier during WotLK/Cata/early MoP aswell.

Of all the stupid arguments in favour of TFing, this one has got the be the absolutely worst one.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I used to know what BiS meant, but then Titanforging came along.

Now I just take the gear that drops and fuck the rest.

[prwraith]

BiS doesn't exist anymore.

They ruined it with warforge / titanforge.

God forbid a person get the best gear in every slot. Noooo. Now you've got to get the best gear AND it has to roll the best possible stats / slots combo. Fuck blizzard so hard up their mothers asses for that shit.

[iamthedevil]

It's pretty simple. BiS may not be BiS like it used to be, but it's still BiS to the setup it's applied to.

IMO, it's better this way because it adds options. Options are the condiments of life.

[Kaibhan]

BIS means this piece along with the rest of the pieces provides max damage making it the best piece for that slot. Bis "right now" isn't anything but a regular upgrade.

[ablib]

To me, BiS hasn't been in the game since Titanforging was introduced. Which is a shame. I miss clear guidelines for gear.

Back in the day, if X helm dropped there was no question it was BiS. Not this, well...it needs to be upgraded to 4/4 first with valor points, or you have to have EXTREME luck to get the titanforged version.

Back in the day you used to get hearty GRATS's when your BiS dropped. Now you get, awww it's my BiS, but it's not Titanforged....so I guess it's not BiS.

[Will]

For it to be 'best' in slot it has to be the best available item in that slot, in other words optimal secondary stats, titanforged or warforged to the ilvl limit (typically 425 atm) AND with a socket. BiS is still in the game but it's a ridiculous thing to aim for.

But the term is used more loosely to refer to the item for that slot with the best secondary allocation prior to any warforging or socket.

[MrExcelion]

It's just a word for the sake of convenience really, like Blizzard decided to keep using "heroic" to explain a certain difficulty of 5 man. Like others said it shouldn't be taken too literally, especially in a titanforge world

[FelPlague]

BiS exists, it’s just slightly more nebulous. BiS means this (item name) it the most optimised base piece of gear. Slight ilvl is beat by stat weights, however, in many situations. So it requires more knowledge to parse who benefits most. That part still falls on loot council to determine.

and with titanforge cap being 420 and mythic gear being 415, and weapons+azerite unable to titanforge.
BIS still very much exists, getting a mythic piece with +5 is ez
and well azerite gear cant titanforge so, yes that gear and weapons VERY MUCH still has BIS

[Shelly]

It's best to think of BiS as a spectrum rather than a specific item.

For example Fury warriors your BiS is going to be the 2-handed sword that drops from Champions of the Light in BoDA.

Now it can certainly be outclassed by the axe from Stormwall Blockade, but that's dependent on item-level and such.

So you have to evaluate each item as it exists at base level versus each other item of equal item level for that slot.

From that you can then choose how to spend your bonus rolls and whether or not to pass an item along to someone else.

Like let's say I got a mastery/vers belt of equal item level to a crit/haste belt on my Fury warrior, I'd want to then pass that along to another player because for Fury the stats do matter quite a bit, so I'd pass it over without even thinking. Then if that belt had any upgrades at all roll on it - WF/TF, socket or a combination of - I'd need to sim it.

Which then gets into class knowledge. Like my DK I wouldn't bother simming at all, secondary stats to a DK scale about as well as a fat man trying to climb a 6 foot wall. A fury warrior though is a different beast and not only scales well with their secondary stats but tends to have a balance point between crit/haste/mastery that can depend a lot on what Azerite traits you take as there's one very specific one that boosts the value of crit by quite a bit.

Anyway, the point is that you can know what your BiS list is in general for a baseline and that any WF/TF above or beyond that list need to be simmed depending on your class.

[Relapses]

In a world of TF and the stupid drag-you-by-dick gearing scheme which Blizzard has developed post-Legion the term "BiS" is completely meaningless.

[Nnyco]

One would think that "best in slot" is self-explanatory.

Gotta say tho, people in this thread acting like getting +10 warforged for bis is like winning a lottery are pretty hillarious.

BiS doesn't exist anymore.

They ruined it with warforge / titanforge.

God forbid a person get the best gear in every slot. Noooo. Now you've got to get the best gear AND it has to roll the best possible stats / slots combo. Fuck blizzard so hard up their mothers asses for that shit.

Mythic drops 415, azerite doesnt war/titanforge, max is 425... tell me how bis does not exist?

[cparle87]

I'm unsure if you're agreeing with my comment or not.

I do agree that once you have full BiS items, you are done with the current content. That has never changed. They just tried making BiS much more difficult to get with the abomination of WF/TF. Almost, dare I say, an way to keep people playing? At it's core, Blizzard wouldn't care if you played 1 minute or 18 hours a day. You're still paying $12.99 regardless of how much you play. However, keeping people playing will increase the likelihood that they will purchase from the shop as that's the core philosophy behind cash shops. It's much easier to "understand" (not saying you don't) this when shops have items, potions, boosts, etc. Your chance of buying those things if you only played for 1 minute is MUCH less than if you played 18 hours a day. In Blizzards case, they have an insanely easy way to get people to inherently buy from the shop. Mount collector? Easy money.

I do personally think different difficulties equates to "content", even if different difficulties have added abilities. Sure, it makes things DIFFERENT, but it is certainly in no way new content. The raid, is the raid.

I'm stating my belief that titanforging is a good thing as it gives raiders the opportunity to continue to raid for small increases in power once they've finished the meat and potatoes of gearing up at their current level. It also gives everyone, even raiders, the incentive to do other content, like dungeons and open world content, because there is a chance that it would be profitable to do so, instead of simply writing off 3/4 of the expansion content as "useless."

As for the still paying their sub part, there is a very cynical part of the playerbase who has become obsessed with the concept of MAU, or some such, which related to time played in some fashion, and believe that every choice Blizz does, from time gating questlines to titanforging for small upgrades, is some insidious evil plot meant to take advantage of players.

And there's also a part of the playerbase who absolutely hate the idea of raid/dungeon difficulties. They go "Blizz is too lazy to give us more raids, so they just add difficulties to them. Why should I want to do a boss on normal or heroic since I've done it on LFR, give me more stuff, Blizz." So to them, they do what they want to, then come to the forums to complain that there's nothing to do, and when they're told "why don't you try the next difficulty up?", they poisonously respond that doing the same thing again on a higher difficulty is "not content."

[Doctor Funkenstein]

It means "I'm reading something written by an elitist douche."

Nothing more, nothing less.

[cparle87]

Yeah, except that people always continued raiding to get everybody else their BiS aswell, get everybody their "last boss mounts", and just competing for logs/speed kills all the way up until the next tier during WotLK/Cata/early MoP aswell.

Of all the stupid arguments in favour of TFing, this one has got the be the absolutely worst one.

Ok, let's play it your way. You continue to raid to get everyone else their BiS, the last boss mounts, for logs and speed kills, AND you still have the chance to get minor power improvements when titanforges, secondaries, and gem sockets drop into your lap. Whereas before there was less in it for you. That is not a bad thing.

[Xath]

BiS doesn't exist anymore.

They ruined it with warforge / titanforge.

God forbid a person get the best gear in every slot. Noooo. Now you've got to get the best gear AND it has to roll the best possible stats / slots combo. Fuck blizzard so hard up their mothers asses for that shit.

accurate the result of this is the current insanity that continues happening between tiers with mythic spam.

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Ok, let's play it your way. You continue to raid to get everyone else their BiS, the last boss mounts, for logs and speed kills, AND you still have the chance to get minor power improvements when titanforges, secondaries, and gem sockets drop into your lap. Whereas before there was less in it for you. That is not a bad thing.

I don't want them it's pretty damn simple. It sucks it completely ruins log competitions. I want to be able to have a max set of gear and actually compete with people not have to pray for a titanforge and socket. It sucks.

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One would think that "best in slot" is self-explanatory.

Gotta say tho, people in this thread acting like getting +10 warforged for bis is like winning a lottery are pretty hillarious.



Mythic drops 415, azerite doesnt war/titanforge, max is 425... tell me how bis does not exist?

+10 warforged plus socket plus teritary stat is basically like winning the lottery.

[Declaron]

Ok, let's play it your way. You continue to raid to get everyone else their BiS, the last boss mounts, for logs and speed kills, AND you still have the chance to get minor power improvements when titanforges, secondaries, and gem sockets drop into your lap. Whereas before there was less in it for you. That is not a bad thing.

Not really, ThrashMetalFtw is right in my opinion. The feeling of getting that last piece of BiS gear so you were in full BiS was AMAZING, and you would feel super powerful and happily crush bosses with your guildies to help them get full BiS too, as for last boss mounts you would just roll on it and eventually your whole group would get it. There is nothing more frustrating than getting a piece of gear and knowing that because it doesnt have a tertiary, because it doesnt have a socket or because its not WF/TF its not BiS even though it should be. Imagine having a full set apart from one piece that was missing a socket. Fucking annoying as fuck, and getting that final upgraded BiS piece wouldn't be celebratory, it would be relief. And the chances of actually getting it are what? 1%? If that? Load of bollocks this system is.