Would you raid/dungeon without TF/WF

[Jowany]

Hey everybody, at first I am not discussing if is titanforging and warforging good or bad, it's cons and pros..

Just imagine days in older xpacks like Wrath of the Lich King, you had specific ilvl gear from raid/dungeon. I played WotLK on private server, where one content/raid was like one year, whole xpack took like 5 years. I collected gear in few months and after that I raided just for fun with guild and enjoyed the raid and bosses.

Will you continue with raiding and doing dungeons if you collected all bis items without any chance for upgrade due to nonexisted TF/WF? Or you will just collect best gear and end raiding until next raid?

4 days ago I leveled my blood DK, now I am at 396 ilvl after normal/hc BoD and 1st boss myth, all dungeons myth 0, and few pluses. Now I can get 400 from 10+ myth dungeons and BoD HC and I am done, but I am "forced" to continue due to chance for TF. So you are always in state with posible upgrade with low chance, but there is a chance.

Let me know, if you lose motivation for doing content if TF/WF isn't a thing.

[Nnyco]

I would definitly do alot less m+.

[Soisoisoi]

Even with TF I stopped raiding once the content for the guild was complete, I don't find it fun to spam raids over and over to "gear up for the next raid" when catch up mechanics will happen. I don't raid world first (or at all this expansion), and often the people I'd be playing with would be far more likely to hinder our progress than my lack of gear.

M+ is a different story, but, you can just keep going higher and higher keys for better gear, to a point. There's more you can do in a week with them than a raid.


tl;dr - for raids I'd prefer WF/TF gone completely, for m+ I don't really care. I do neither currently so my opinion doesn't really matter. For PvP, it shouldn't be a thing.

[Bombademar]

I would get BIS and probably stop doing them besides maybe the odd heroic run in full mythic gear to show off my big dick dps. (maybe some keys too)
Gearing is fun for some time, but it is also fun to reach your goal and be done with it for a while so you can, you know, finally play the game.

[lappee]

Getting BiS and then aiming for rankings was the reason to raid on farm, now its just a chore to get ready for next raid which is why I'm not doing it at all.

[Jowany]

Gearing is fun for some time, but it is also fun to reach your goal and be done with it for a while so you can, you know, finally play the game.

This, you have point, when you're done with gearing and you can for weeks play your toon, or just chill and play in different style, focus on PVP, achievements, or just rest. Now I feel forced to keep in raid until I am burned out or I have full TF gear (what's nearly impossible with bis stats).

[owbu]

Our guild usually raids until everyone has killed the endboss at least once, then does a week of achievements and stops until the next patch. So WF/TF doesnt make me raid for longer than I want to, it just makes rekilling bosses for other peoples gear more interesting, once you yourself have enough gear to beat the boss you are progressing on.

I think BFA, unlike Legion, has a pretty good balance on TF. It's not really worth it to rekill instead of extend, when everyone is equipped at the current itemlvl that drops (without TF/WF), but rekilling is a bit less gruesome, if you had a bunch of new people join your guild and you have to rekill to equip them.

[Alphatorg]

This, you have point, when you're done with gearing and you can for weeks play your toon, or just chill and play in different style, focus on PVP, achievements, or just rest. Now I feel forced to keep in raid until I am burned out or I have full TF gear (what's nearly impossible with bis stats).

If you're in a mythic guild then you have to farm bosses every week either way and TF is just a little motivational bonus at that point.
If you're raiding N/HC and literally just keep on farming for the sake of TF, so you can maybe get a couple of hundred sim DPS on bosses you outgear by like at least 20-25ilvl anyway, then you only have yourself to blame.

[Mightytasty]

Getting BiS and then aiming for rankings was the reason to raid on farm, now its just a chore to get ready for next raid which is why I'm not doing it at all.

Man, it was so goddamn satisfying to get your BiS weapon drop back in the day. I would buy my enchant + epic gems in advance and save them in my bags for when I get the drop because I knew it wasn’t being replaced. Or getting your BiS trinket and then immediately put it to the test it in a random BG...

I could name just about every piece of gear my character had equipped.

[Claitraith]

I still play using a very outdated method. I raid until I am geared and the content is on farm within the guild. Once this is done, I either focus on alt's or take a break. i don't work to getting everything WF/TF. It is a requirement of high end guilds to focus on the absolute best gear out there, but for me there is no requirement to burn myself out for the next tier where more than likely I will do HC mode and half on mythic. Each to their own but I am not a fan of all the different levels of gear out there. It has led to stat bloating over the years.

I actually liked it more back when you knew what boss dropped your BIS and it didn't involve having to run it over and over again just for a better version.

[Gilmour]

I personally hate this titan and warforging. My guildie, my competitor actually cos we fight for spot in mythic raid got lucky with titanforged Dawnbreaker and warforged Gettiku in Kings Rest while I in 5 weeks and 5 bonus rolles got zero dawnbreakers and no Getikku at all. This forces me to spam m+ Siege, Kings, Motherload for weapon that my guildie got month ago cos he is luckier but not better than me which makes for him easier to fight for a spot in mythic BoD. I start hating this game.

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[Raelbo]

Just imagine days in older xpacks like Wrath of the Lich King, you had specific ilvl gear from raid/dungeon. I played WotLK on private server, where one content/raid was like one year, whole xpack took like 5 years. I collected gear in few months and after that I raided just for fun with guild and enjoyed the raid and bosses.

Will you continue with raiding and doing dungeons if you collected all bis items without any chance for upgrade due to nonexisted TF/WF? Or you will just collect best gear and end raiding until next raid?

Although I do get that for many people it is a legitimate question, for me, that's the wrong question. I will raid a tier for as long as I am enjoying it. My primary objective is to clear the raid by beating the final boss, and thereafter it's about perfecting the fight. But once the fight has become trivial, unless there is something I specifically need the gear for, my motivation to keep raiding that tier falls off rapidly.

To me, the idea of farming for BiS is the antithesis of fun. I get why people did it, because they wanted to be in the best possible position to springboard into the next tier when it arrives. But, to me, that just seems like a chore. The fact is that if you've cleared your current tier (and been part of the progression team rather than just boosted) then you'll have enough gear to start tackling the next tier when it lands. And while more gear will help, there should never really be a compulsion to keep farming an old tier unless you enjoy it.

4 days ago I leveled my blood DK, now I am at 396 ilvl after normal/hc BoD and 1st boss myth, all dungeons myth 0, and few pluses. Now I can get 400 from 10+ myth dungeons and BoD HC and I am done, but I am "forced" to continue due to chance for TF. So you are always in state with posible upgrade with low chance, but there is a chance.

Lol. You're not "forced" to do anything. If you're enjoying the raid, then keep doing it. If you've started to grow bored of it, do something else with your time.

What is awesome about WF/TF is that as long as you keep raiding, there will be the possibility of rewards in it for you. And that feels good. But when it becomes your only motivation, then I'd say you're doing it wrong.

[Poppincaps]

Absolutely, I did it for years. Honestly I think Blizzard's whole philosophy behind the game now, is to keep you playing, not to keep you having fun. Between AP farming, and spamming M+ for TF trinkets, it's just not fun and is a big reason why I'm considering quitting. If I don't think the systems in 8.2 look any better it may be for a while.

[rad586]

I don't like this WF/TF system with random sockets on top of it.

I don't care about raiding for WFs/TFs. If I get my items from the mythic bosses and the kills, I just start asking my raid leader to bench me if possible, but I will always be available if needed - playing alts or just staying online while watching youtube or playing SWTOR on different monitor.

[Jowany]

Lol. You're not "forced" to do anything. If you're enjoying the raid, then keep doing it. If you've started to grow bored of it, do something else with your time.

What is awesome about WF/TF is that as long as you keep raiding, there will be the possibility of rewards in it for you. And that feels good. But when it becomes your only motivation, then I'd say you're doing it wrong.

Yes, I am not forced, but I feel forced inside, there is a possibility for upgrade so I have to run that raid. Now I am enjoying tanking with my blood DK, but in short time I managed to overgear every casual/medium active player and I want to keep my character progression and grow to be more powerful, so I will keep raiding and m+, but I like it, bcs I am playing with friends.
And as you said, there is always possibility to get rewarded with WF/TF even if I am fully geared.

But I would like to xpack slowed down, just give me more time to enjoy it. I am heroic raider, we don't have enought active players for stable myth group (raid), but I would welcome to have more time to try it. Now I feel like "Yea, we finally and slowly beated heroic, now slowly to myth, but f*ck new raids incoming in few weeks".

[lappee]

Lol. You're not "forced" to do anything. If you're enjoying the raid, then keep doing it. If you've started to grow bored of it, do something else with your time.

If you really enjoyed raiding then you could do it without loot at all, so why have loot in the game?

mucho sense.

[Zantera]

The upside of TF for me is the feeling that I can always get an upgrade (even if its just minor).

The downside of removing TF for me is that feeling from WotLK/Cata of just running around afk in the city because there's not much to do. I think m+ would be hit quite hard (more people would just do 1 key for weekly) and I think in the long run it would make me less excited knowing once I get the gear there's nothing more.

The best thing would be just to put more of a cap on the TF. There's no reason a normal item should be rolled up to mythic or higher.

[Boricha]

Absolutely. I would feel much more motivated to do raids and dungeons if I felt that BiS was obtainable. I'd also note that farming M+ beyond the weekly chest for titanforges has never been a lucrative way to gear up. In Legion, it was more about farming AP with the small chance of gear. Now it's just a fool's game.

[MisterBigglez]

Thousand times yes

[Freshouttajail]

I got all the items I wanted at 400ilvl because I'm not some casual clown who play 2 hours per week to get a 425 bis on his first run because the loot distribution algorythm is like a drug dealer.