Would you raid/dungeon without TF/WF

[Xath]

I would actually play this game again if that was a possibility. Fighting for rankings on equal items was what made farm fun.

[Mlz]

If there was no TF (WF +5 or so is ok), I would consider raiding again, so yes.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Would absolutely consider raiding again if tf/random sockets were removed and bis became a thing again - sadly that will never happen while the current dev team keep their jobs.

[Kuruption]

If the raid and the group I raid with is fun, yes I would.

I'd probably keep doing m+ just because I enjoy the group I run with on those too.

So yes, I would if they got rid of this awful system.

[JepJepa]

raid, yes. mythic+ ? not as much.

[Druitz]

For m+ at hgher level and other affixes every week - yes but no for raids

[Low Hanging Fruit]

For sure. I won't sit here and lie to you that when I or a member of the raid team gets a big old TF it doesn't make me happy. But at the same exact time it makes all the other drops that didn't seem almost like garbage. Which means a majority of loot doesn't feel as good as it should.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

For sure. I won't sit here and lie to you that when I or a member of the raid team gets a big old TF it doesn't make me happy. But at the same exact time it makes all the other drops that didn't seem almost like garbage. Which means a majority of loot doesn't feel as good as it should.

This. Anything that's not 425 TF/socket feels bad. It leaves a sour taste in your mouth, when you get the 415 base version of your BiS item, but then remember "Oh well, it could have been better).

The current system of completley random TF/socket procs belongs in Diablo, not WoW. End of discussion. If they truly want to keep it in the game, they should simply add some kind of way to upgrade base items with currency, like the VP upgrades in MoP/WoD. A TF would be a nice temporary boost, but not a permanent advantage, as people would be able to upgrade their base items to match the power of TFing over time.

[Depakote]

I'd raid more if they put out LFR first with every mechanic that normal and heroic have so that people can learn the encounters.

[Osmeric]

This. Anything that's not 425 TF/socket feels bad.

You realize you have just given an argument for stripping M raiding out of the game, right? Because if a 415 feels bad, how does a 400 feel? Or a 385?

If you respond "they should be happy getting what they're getting", then I'll throw that statement right back at you about 415s.

[Softbottom]

WF/TF has never enticed me to keep running the same content over and over when i already have the base version of that item (in my case heroic items as i mainly just raid heroic). I cant be bothered.

I didn't mind WF in MoP when it was in ToT but TF stuff is just plain retarded.

[Volitar]

I would probably still want to play. Parsing was fun when everyone was on equal footing.

[Canderous1]

titanforging has no bearing on whether i raid or not

[ThrashMetalFtw]

You realize you have just given an argument for stripping M raiding out of the game, right? Because if a 415 feels bad, how does a 400 feel? Or a 385?

If you respond "they should be happy getting what they're getting", then I'll throw that statement right back at you about 415s.

Must be the worst argument of all time in that case. Absolutely absurd.

[Azerate]

Heroic is my end game, so no. I see no reason to come back to a raid after I'm done clearing it completely, except maybe 1-2 times to do it with guildies who weren't there and didn't manage to get the kill.

In fact, I don't think I'd even be motivated to farm it for my bis items after the first full clear of the raid...I mean why. The reason to do it now is to gear up for the next raid from wf/tf, and this helps me progress heroic faster then.

Maybe if I were a mythic raider it would be different, because then you get this sense of having the absolute best item in the game, but for heroic and normal raiders this is meaningless.

And yeah, I love that whenever I kill a heroic farm boss, I have a chance to get an upgrade. People who don't know shit about the life of heroic raiders should keep their dirty hands off wf/tf system.

[Trumpcat]

I much prefer the traditional chance for loot on bosses and a steady buildup system (such as badges/currency) on top of it.

Say steadily collecting currency from every boss that will eventually allow me to purchase an item or a "titanforge" token, something that is in my control. The more bosses you kill per week the more currency you get. Thus time and effort awarded. You know, when rewards were cool instead of a reason of pissing off people

I have an example in my guild of a guy who doesn't raid, but he gets ilevel 400+ upgrades every-single-time from the weekly dungeon quest, the Darkshore warfront quest, the Darkshore WB and a rare weekly M+ chest, everything with a nice ratio of war/titanforge procs. This guy is better geared than another guildie who is in every raid, does a few M+ per week and on top of that does everything the previous guy does. The raider guy spends a lot more time and a lot more effort (considering heroic raiding is harder than afk'ing for 400s) and he bloody gets procs and non upgrades for the same slots repeatedly!

I personally got three 410 weapons in a row from weekly M+ chest, my Darkshore stuff also duplicates on gloves.

It's complete nonsense. The "raider guy" is so pissed off he barely plays and started to pass on raids and we can't blame him. Neither the first nor the second guy are to blame, it's Blizzard's game design. Talk about RNG adding excitement longevity.

Along with a number of other terrible game design decisions, such as the boring class design and degradation compared to previous expansions, this nonsense RNG in rewarding effort is among the things that will be the deciding factor if I quit on the next expansion.
Why don't I quit now if I am so whiny about it? Because I have an attachment to the game that can't be broken that fast, Blizzard loves me for it.

[Donald Hellscream]

Of course I would, I raid for the enjoyment of killing bosses. Since my guild only raids heroic my raiding activity usually go down dramatically after heroic has been on farm for a while. With or without titanforging/warforging.

[ID811717]

Yes and No.
Yes: I would stop raiding right away.
No: I would push M+ even more.

Thankfully, the game is moving in the right direction. No tier sets and no warforges on azerite pieces already made raiding a lot less beneficial for players who only want to push high keys. The next possible steps could be: make raid trinkets unable to warforge/titanforge, make a proper M+ ranking system or ladder, and start awarding mythic raid quality gear to top M+ players. Then the next step: remove WF/TF from the game altogether. The gear acquisition should be merit based, not luck based.

[Raelbo]

I mean, It's Lappee. That name should ring a bell if you happened to play anytime between Wotlk and Legion and followed the world first race.

Not saying he is older/wiser/smarter, just saying theres a lot of experience behind the screen.

And therein lies the problem. Just because he is experienced at the game doesn't mean he has the analytical skills necessary to be having this conversation. And his entire argument just demonstrates this.

It's all about how he hates WF/TF and that if other people can't see why it's a big problem, we're just scrubs or entitled brats. Yet when it comes to putting together an actual argument...nothing. Yeah, I get it. He's not enjoying WF/TF. But maybe, just maybe, if he stopped being so stubborn and arrogant he'd recognise where the real problem lay.

[Osmeric]

I would raid until i get my full set and stop when i have everything I need.

The good thing about WF/TF is that it gives you a reason to run raids even after you get everything you want.
There is always a good chance for "OMG this 425 with socket trinket is amazing"

It also serves as a way to funnel loot to carries. In other words, a catch up mechanic.