AMD Navi

[mrgreenthump]

I think I'll stick to my Vega 56, which is still the best deal you can get right now at ~240-270€.

Yeah, and the new post processing features may even work for you as they seem to be heavily relying on rapid packed math.

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This is why I was a bit confused, I thought the next-gen playstation and xbox were having ray tracing and using AMD GPUs, so why not the PC cards?

Probably money. It's more expensive to add additional computation cores on a new process.

[Linkedblade]

It's not that amd can't compete with gpus, it's that they choose not to from what I remember. Top-tier gpus make almost no money, so no point r&ding them.

Really wish we had some competition with nvidia though

But the server segment has accelerators that Intel could profit from. And the r&d that goes into that has a side effect of creating tech that is also good for quick-maths that graphics engines need.

And Intel is also looking forward to, iirc, to getting rid of sockets altogether.

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I'm not sure how I feel about the new GPU prices when you can get the 10 series much cheaper on ebay. Oh course, this is a openbox/used/pre-owned comparison with new technology, but they compared to Nvidia's RTX lineup, which has cheaper options available without ray-tracing -- the 10 series. Listed for 2-400 on ebay.

If the new AMD line doesn't have RTX, I don't see why they did this comparison. Has ray tracing been confirmed for Navi?

RTX can be done on any card, it just takes a lot of the calculations from other things. But you should be able to do it on Vega or Pascal, but with severe performance penalties. The rtx 2000 series just has silicon dedicated to performing those calculations.

[dadev]

This is why I was a bit confused, I thought the next-gen playstation and xbox were having ray tracing and using AMD GPUs, so why not the PC cards?

Will they actually have hardware? I wasn't following the announcements really, so all I heard there will be ray tracing, but not sure if anybody said there's going to be hardware accelerated ray tracing.

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Then again last thing we've heard is that Nvidia is skipping 7nm till 2020 with 7nm EUV. So it's going to be impressive for the next 9 months, because Nvidia is still on 12nm.

Maybe it came out wrong, I just meant that from architecture point of view it's not that impressive if at same power they achieve same performance, but with a node ahead. Probably better than before, but they still have a long way to go.

[Puupi]

5700XT looks great. 400e.

GTX 2070 is 600e-870e here.

[Shinzai]

Will they actually have hardware? I wasn't following the announcements really, so all I heard there will be ray tracing, but not sure if anybody said there's going to be hardware accelerated ray tracing.

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Maybe it came out wrong, I just meant that from architecture point of view it's not that impressive if at same power they achieve same performance, but with a node ahead. Probably better than before, but they still have a long way to go.

Yeah, in the end, for being a 7nm part, it's not impressive from that angle. It's a big leap for AMD, but I'm sure Nvidia's equivalent 7nm 2070/2080 parts will be far faster. However, how they price those parts will be a huge issue.

In the end, the 5700 XT is only $50 higher than I'd hoped and its completely acceptable, given its performance so far and the fact that it looks to have really solid overclocking/AiB value.

A 10%+ over clock puts it just behind the 1080ti and even 2080 in some cases. I find that pretty compelling myself.

[Temp name]

Yeah, in the end, for being a 7nm part, it's not impressive from that angle. It's a big leap for AMD, but I'm sure Nvidia's equivalent 7nm 2070/2080 parts will be far faster. However, how they price those parts will be a huge issue.

In the end, the 5700 XT is only $50 higher than I'd hoped and its completely acceptable, given its performance so far and the fact that it looks to have really solid overclocking/AiB value.

A 10%+ over clock puts it just behind the 1080ti and even 2080 in some cases. I find that pretty compelling myself.

Yeah, but only overclocking one of them seems a bit silly.. You can also get 10%+ on decent 1080ti/2080's

[Shinzai]

Yeah, but only overclocking one of them seems a bit silly.. You can also get 10%+ on decent 1080ti/2080's

I know, but I'm more interested in a fairly priced card punching above its weight.

The 3700XT performs like an overclocked 2070 as is, and with its overhead, it puts it right next to the big hitters.

Yes, you can overclock a 2080. But really, so what?

The 2080 and 1080ti sit in a zone where overclocking them tends not to offer any tangible benefits.

Playing Tomb Raider, for example, at 90 fps vs 95 isn't going to change anything.

[Shakadam]

5700XT looks great. 400e.

GTX 2070 is 600e-870e here.

449$ is about the same in € because VAT.

Not sure where you're checking prices but RTX 2070 is around 550€ for multiple models on hinta.fi. Although as usual it's pointless buying anything in this expensive country of ours since you can get them for about 100€ cheaper from Germany.

[Puupi]

449$ is about the same in € because VAT.

Not sure where you're checking prices but RTX 2070 is around 550€ for multiple models on hinta.fi. Although as usual it's pointless buying anything in this expensive country of ours since you can get them for about 100€ cheaper from Germany.

I checked verkkokauppa.com

[nToxik]

Also to note, Navi is AMD's mainstream GPU line. Vega is still their high-end GPU lineup with Vega receiving a likely refresh in 2020.

[Gray_Matter]

AMD already played the 7nm card, Nvidia has yet to

2020 should be good with Nvidias 7nm EUV line-up and possibly "big Navi"

AMD hasn't finished with RDNA yet. This is only the first pass. They should be closer to NVidia next time around.

[Life-Binder]

Next time they won't be up against rtx 2070

[Gray_Matter]

Also to note, Navi is AMD's mainstream GPU line. Vega is still their high-end GPU lineup with Vega receiving a likely refresh in 2020.

My understanding is that the next Navi will replace Vega in the gaming lineup. Basically Navi is the their gaming offering and Vega will be the compute one. AMD have their hands a bit tied with this release. They can't get into a cat fight with NVidia because they don't have a competitive top end. The Radeon 7 is too expensive to drop the price much. Hopefully they will be in a better position with their next Navi release.

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Next time they won't be up against rtx 2070

Exactly, Nvidia isn't standing still either. But, as we are seeing with NVidia, they aren't getting the same jumps in performance. NVidia doesn't have much they can do on the architecture side of things but they will be able to improve by using 7nm as an example. AMD still have some work to do on their architecture. They aren't getting the same gaming performance as NVidia for the same compute performance.

Edit: Just to explain what I mean by architectural changes. AMD are behind NVidia at the moment with the GPU architecture from a gaming standpoint. Design changes can net you very big gains in performance. For example, their are string searching algorithms that can net you a 20 fold increase in speed over a brute force byte by byte comparison. So that means that AMD have a more places that they can optimize. They are already on 7nm so their jumps in performance will have to come from design changes.

[Thunderball]

AMD hasn't finished with RDNA yet. This is only the first pass. They should be closer to NVidia next time around.

RDNA is still GCN. They're not going to be decisively faster without completely new architecture.

[mrgreenthump]

RDNA is still GCN. They're not going to be decisively faster without completely new architecture.

In a sense that it uses GCN as it's ISA, yes. But that's like saying Zen is still X86_64 when comparing to Bulldozer. RDNA changes the compute unit from NCU(actual Vega uArch name) drastically.

Their uArch naming has been a bit of a mess then calling it the same name as the ISA for quite a bit. But they've tried to stray away from callings their uArchs GCN generations for like 3-4 years now and people are still calling Vega GCN gen 5.

[Gray_Matter]

RDNA is still GCN. They're not going to be decisively faster without completely new architecture.

You should read the RDNA architecture presentation (https://gpureport.cz/info/Graphics_A...e_06102019.pdf). RDNA isn't GCN, it still has ties to GCN but it's very different. Page 10 onward is where it gets interesting. It's certainly not as efficient as NVidia but it's a big step in the right direction. They are making further changes for the next revision.

RDNA (5700XT) has fewer transistors than Vega 64 (10.3B vs 12.5B), it has fewer T/FLOPS than Vega 64 (9.75 vs 12.58) yet we are seeing jumps in performance of upwards of 20%. It's far more efficient from a gaming perspective than Vega with GCN. For comparison, the 2070 only has 7.465 T/FLOPS but it performs on a par with the 5700XT.

I am pretty sure that NVidia also build on their previous architectures with each new release and don't throw everything away and start from scratch each time.

[Thunderball]

In a sense that it uses GCN as it's ISA, yes. But that's like saying Zen is still X86_64 when comparing to Bulldozer. RDNA changes the compute unit from NCU(actual Vega uArch name) drastically.

Their uArch naming has been a bit of a mess then calling it the same name as the ISA for quite a bit. But they've tried to stray away from callings their uArchs GCN generations for like 3-4 years now and people are still calling Vega GCN gen 5.

No. If you look at Zen vs Bulldozer the design is completely different. Yeah, evidently it's a very similar idea, but technology and implementation is completely different. RDNA is literally GCN with minor pipeline optimizations and faster cache.

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You should read the RDNA architecture presentation (https://gpureport.cz/info/Graphics_A...e_06102019.pdf). RDNA isn't GCN, it still has ties to GCN but it's very different. Page 10 onward is where it gets interesting. It's certainly not as efficient as NVidia but it's a big step in the right direction. They are making further changes for the next revision.

RDNA (5700XT) has fewer transistors than Vega 64 (10.3B vs 12.5B), it has fewer T/FLOPS than Vega 64 (9.75 vs 12.58) yet we are seeing jumps in performance of upwards of 20%. It's far more efficient from a gaming perspective than Vega with GCN. For comparison, the 2070 only has 7.465 T/FLOPS but it performs on a par with the 5700XT.

I am pretty sure that NVidia also build on their previous architectures with each new release and don't throw everything away and start from scratch each time.

Doesnt look any interesting to me. They're basically trying to save money here by optimizing GCN for gaming. I dont mean that they're doing anything wrong here, it looks they're targetting all the right things with RDNA. Most of the stuff they're targetting here are their usual problems with huge memory bandwidth requirements (have to address this if you're moving away from HBM2) and CPU usage. Poor scalability - still not addressed, shitty blower coolers on reference models - still not addressed, overclocking support - is getting worse again, power consumption - still very high (more than direct competitors even though Nvidia is still on 12nm). So yeah it looks like they're targetting midrange again: cheaper, smaller GPUs with cheaper memory.

At the same time Turing design is not that interesting compared to Pascal either btw, it's just optimizations they had to do due to DX11 falling off, and also an attempt to utilize their advancements in compute hardware for consumer market.

[dadev]

I am pretty sure that NVidia also build on their previous architectures with each new release and don't throw everything away and start from scratch each time.

That is very likely.
Today building a general purpose CPU or GPU from scratch is an effort of epic proportions, it will require mad amount of funding, highly skilled manpower and long time. If a company already has functioning architecture it will never throw away what it has.
Apple is building its stuff right now from scratch, but the amount of money they can pour into this cannot be matched.

[Ballistic]

The new RX 5700/5700 XT will be dead on arrival, NV is preparing to launch Super line up and I'm sure the MSRP prices of normal/Ti/Super will fill the gaps and it will make anyone pick any NAVI new card is wasting his money. What a shame AMD!!, they should have learned their mistakes with NV series 10 when they did the same trick.

What’s going to happen to the existing, vanilla, RTX 2000 series?
So the next question becomes, what will happen to the vanilla lineup? Well, NVIDIA will almost certainly drop the old series in pricing meaning the Navi GPU is going to go up against the 2070 SUPER/vanilla 2080 – utterly decimating the price/performance proposition of the AMD part. Red team will have no choice but to respond in kind from what I can see, and shed their MSRP as well, diminishing their margins. It’s official: the AMD vs NVIDIA price wars have started and the consumer is going to win.

[Puupi]

The new RX 5700/5700 XT will be dead on arrival, NV is preparing to launch Super line up and I'm sure the MSRP prices of normal/Ti/Super will fill the gaps and it will make anyone pick any NAVI new card is wasting his money. What a shame AMD!!, they should have learned their mistakes with NV series 10 when they did the same trick.

How about we wait and see.