Chances the meta will be different between Classic and unnamed servers.

[Fascinate]

First off i fully understand that unnamed servers aren't to be discussed on this forum, but given the topic im hoping the mods can agree that it has value. These players are big reason why classic is happening, and they shouldnt be completely ignored.

The reason i bring this thread up is to prepare unnamed server players for a game, that might not be the one they remember or have experience with. Readily do i see threads or videos talking about a certain meta that wasnt how i remember it in 2006. Now this could be a fault of my memory or it could also be a consequence of poor coding/scripting on said servers.

Is there a chance classic will be so different from these servers it will feel like a different game? Will pvp meta's match up to what they know?

Most of my experience in vanilla was actually during the 1.12 patch in 2006, so if what blizzard says is true and they have the original source code i think personally i am in good hands in regards to being able to relive the game i remember, im just a bit worried unnamed server players wont have the same experience.

[Rooskie1993]

It wont be that different, the reason the meta is different now is a lot of people have a lot more information and experience compared to back in 2006 and a lot of things have been done multiple times over, 2006 it was fresh and a new game that we barely had any ways to get info on things as well.

[Thunderball]

It could be exactly the same (if they stick to what is the norm for those servers in terms of stat/patch progression) or it could be vastly different if they change things up in a major way. For example imagine Bonereaver's Edge having it's final stats from the start - the weapon would be BiS for PvE on Horde and PvP on both factions forever.

[Knolan]

First off i fully understand that unnamed servers aren't to be discussed on this forum, but given the topic im hoping the mods can agree that it has value. These players are big reason why classic is happening, and they shouldnt be completely ignored.

The reason i bring this thread up is to prepare unnamed server players for a game, that might not be the one they remember or have experience with. Readily do i see threads or videos talking about a certain meta that wasnt how i remember it in 2006. Now this could be a fault of my memory or it could also be a consequence of poor coding/scripting on said servers.

Is there a chance classic will be so different from these servers it will feel like a different game? Will pvp meta's match up to what they know?

Most of my experience in vanilla was actually during the 1.12 patch in 2006, so if what blizzard says is true and they have the original source code i think personally i am in good hands in regards to being able to relive the game i remember, im just a bit worried unnamed server players wont have the same experience.

One huge different will be the net code, vanilla is incredibly unresponsive and does not have skill queueing (meaning you had to wait for the global to actually end before sending another skill, nowadays if you press a skill during global CD, the server saves the skill and uses it immediately after the gcd is finished, which makes a huge difference if you play with higher ping).

As for mechanisms:
- Unnamed servers have a very few restrictions on world buffs (they were much harder to access on official servers).
- All resistances and armor values are estimates on unnamed servers, meaning bosses can be much stronger or weaker on classic.
- Some monsters are bugged on unnamed servers, meaning they do no use abilities they should. Some suggested grind spots you find online will be actually be far more ineffective.
- Sit to get critically hit does not appear to work on the official classic server, so some leveling builds (namely: paladin, shamans and priests) will not work.
- Frontstabbing (using back stab or shred from the front of enemies by running side by side inside their hitbox) does not work on classic (this will make leveling as a feral MUCH slower).
- Some trinket proc rates and items will work differently (Hand of justice trinket is highly overpowered, for instance).

For meta I hardly see it changing to be honest, maybe we will see some classes doing more or less damage (I am betting casters will be more powerful at the start of the expansion), but I believe overall the hierarchy of healing, tanking and DPS will be about the same.

[FelPlague]

First off i fully understand that unnamed servers aren't to be discussed on this forum, but given the topic im hoping the mods can agree that it has value. These players are big reason why classic is happening, and they shouldnt be completely ignored.

The reason i bring this thread up is to prepare unnamed server players for a game, that might not be the one they remember or have experience with. Readily do i see threads or videos talking about a certain meta that wasnt how i remember it in 2006. Now this could be a fault of my memory or it could also be a consequence of poor coding/scripting on said servers.

Is there a chance classic will be so different from these servers it will feel like a different game? Will pvp meta's match up to what they know?

Most of my experience in vanilla was actually during the 1.12 patch in 2006, so if what blizzard says is true and they have the original source code i think personally i am in good hands in regards to being able to relive the game i remember, im just a bit worried unnamed server players wont have the same experience.

It is almost guaranteed it iwll be very different simply because these illegal servers are really just messes of TBC and vanilla mixed together.
they have already been proven to give up to 50% more exp from quests.
also the illegal servers commonly have messed up coe, which means some things are meta that were not normally.

[Fascinate]

It wont be that different, the reason the meta is different now is a lot of people have a lot more information and experience compared to back in 2006 and a lot of things have been done multiple times over, 2006 it was fresh and a new game that we barely had any ways to get info on things as well.

This is the million dollar question now isnt it?

I had a convo today with someone who said paladins have the upperhand in a 1v1 vs a rogue with all his CD's up and i literally lol'd, paladins were among the easiest targets i can recall from my days in patch 1.12.

Its really an interesting conversation to be sure, i just hope unnamed servers aren't so different from the classic patch as to be unrecognizable as vanilla wow.

[Thunderball]

One huge different will be the net code, vanilla is incredibly unresponsive and does not have skill queueing (meaning you had to wait for the global to actually end before sending another skill, nowadays if you press a skill during global CD, the server saves the skill and uses it immediately after the gcd is finished, which makes a huge difference if you play with higher ping).

That's not true. That feature existed in later patches of vanilla.

- Unnamed servers have a very few restrictions on world buffs (they were much harder to access on official servers).

That's not going to change much for PvE. For PvP yeah, there's not going to be a bunch of fully world buffed premades anymore, but that has to do mostly with population of those servers, not actual restrictions on WBs.

- All resistances and armor values are estimates on unnamed servers, meaning bosses can be much stronger or weaker on classic.

These values are estimated to be higher than original for most of these servers. Also, for example Classic wont have partial resists on damage not affected by resistances, holy for example (same as retail vanilla), thing that exists on those servers.

- Some monsters are bugged on unnamed servers, meaning they do no use abilities they should. Some suggested grind spots you find online will be actually be far more ineffective.

Could be an issue, but most of the time if a specific type of NPC gets a lot of interaction with players it will most likely get fixed.

- Sit to get critically hit does not appear to work on the official classic server, so some leveling builds (namely: paladin, shamans and priests) will not work.

That only effects paladins, but yes, it's totally a thing.

- Frontstabbing (using back stab or shred from the front of enemies by running side by side inside their hitbox) does not work on classic (this will make leveling as a feral MUCH slower).

Not really. Shred is only worth using if you talent Improved Shred which wont happen until level 27 by which time you already build most of your lead. In reality fast feral leveling is mostly attributed due to low competition in both NE and Tauren starting zones, not actual mechanics that make them level fast.

- Some trinket proc rates and items will work differently (Hand of justice trinket is highly overpowered, for instance).

Can't agree here, most proc rates were gradually nerfed on those servers due to balance reasons.

[Knolan]

That's not true. That feature existed in later patches of vanilla.

Not really. Shred is only worth using if you talent Improved Shred which wont happen until level 27 by which time you already build most of your lead. In reality fast feral leveling is mostly attributed due to low competition in both NE and Tauren starting zones, not actual mechanics that make them level fast.

I am pretty sure this feature was only implemented on MoP.

As for front stabbing, shred deals much, much more damage than claw, not being able to front stab will reduce your leveling speed greatly.
Rogues are largely unaffected as they can level as combat.

[Tic Tacs]

It is almost guaranteed it iwll be very different simply because these illegal servers are really just messes of TBC and vanilla mixed together.
they have already been proven to give up to 50% more exp from quests.
also the illegal servers commonly have messed up coe, which means some things are meta that were not normally.

This is false... I've come across many of these servers over past few years, I won't name them here for obvious reasons but more popular ones offer very much authentic TBC and Vanilla like experience. I'm not denying some of these servers do things differently because they can but these are generally less popular at least to my knowledge.

[FelPlague]

This is false... I've come across many of these servers over past few years, I won't name them here for obvious reasons but more popular ones offer very much authentic TBC and Vanilla like experience. I'm not denying some of these servers do things differently because they can but these are generally less popular at least to my knowledge.

except its true.
https://youtu.be/4wgnuij-Bpo?t=1317
5000
4000
https://youtu.be/16_fiObHoVo?t=1258
2800
2800

top one is a "blizzlike" bottom is actual vanilla
same 2 quests, more exp, because those are the TBC prepatch EXP values. the prepatch made leveling much faster by making quests over level about 30 give more exp, scaling up and up

[Tehterokkar]

That only effects paladins, but yes, it's totally a thing.


Not really. Shred is only worth using if you talent Improved Shred which wont happen until level 27 by which time you already build most of your lead. In reality fast feral leveling is mostly attributed due to low competition in both NE and Tauren starting zones, not actual mechanics that make them level fast.

Want to touch on these 2 matters.

Warriors rely heavily on being able to be crit to proc talents, which is why Fury has been the dominant leveling spec on private servers due to it having strong early talents and the on-crit talents which massively boosts the warrior's DPS.

Also you are wrong about the front-stabbing, it is absolutely what makes Ferals(and Rogues to an extent) level extremely fast in Private servers. Shred and Backstab do humongous amounts of damage per energy, and they are balanced with the "must be behind target" requirement in mind. It still speeds up kill times by a very hefty amount, which translates into less need to pop out of form to regrowth+rejuv and just continue.

Especially for Rogues, front-stabbing makes Rogue leveling go from unbearable shit to pretty decent since you can actually kill mobs in the early levels without losing 80% of your health per mob. Rogues are unbelievably bad for leveling until they can get blue weapons and poisons to help their kill speed and therefore survivability.

[stigz]

It's going to be interesting to play on a server where you know NOBODY is max level yet (unless they have literally no life) for the first few weeks. I wonder how that is going to be

[draynay]

First off i fully understand that unnamed servers aren't to be discussed on this forum

You say you do, but it sure doesn't look that way.

[Akasha64]

It's going to be interesting to play on a server where you know NOBODY is max level yet (unless they have literally no life) for the first few weeks. I wonder how that is going to be

You underestimate what some people can do. There will be a 60 in a few days. There will be a group that helps a single player get there ASAP. The single player caps the mobs, whilst the other kill it for him. This tactic was already used many times.

[FelPlague]

You underestimate what some people can do. There will be a 60 in a few days. There will be a group that helps a single player get there ASAP. The single player caps the mobs, whilst the other kill it for him. This tactic was already used many times.

fastest known is 4 days 20 hours (played) from the video above.
other then that, we dont know anyone who leveled faster in vanilla, but people may have that faster by now, hard to go off "blizzlike" though because they are insanely innacurate.


we most likely will see our first 60's 1 week and a half to 2 weeks into the launch, simply because they wont have BOE's and will have competition.

[Tic Tacs]

except its true.
https://youtu.be/4wgnuij-Bpo?t=1317
5000
4000
https://youtu.be/16_fiObHoVo?t=1258
2800
2800

top one is a "blizzlike" bottom is actual vanilla
same 2 quests, more exp, because those are the TBC prepatch EXP values. the prepatch made leveling much faster by making quests over level about 30 give more exp, scaling up and up

Yes, these are patch 2.x.x something values... to be honest I'm a bit surprised, even though I never played on this specific server but for some reason was under the impression they ran 1.x.x values, I've spent most of my time on K3 if you know what I mean, they run proper values. Thank you for the info.

[FelPlague]

Yes, these are patch 2.x.x something values... to be honest I'm a bit surprised, even though I never played on this specific server but for some reason was under the impression they ran 1.x.x values, I've spent most of my time on K3 if you know what I mean, they run proper values. Thank you for the info.

did they?
cause im pretty sure they ALSO rtan on those values.

[Tic Tacs]

did they?
cause im pretty sure they ALSO rtan on those values.

check PM.

/10char

[FelPlague]

check PM.

/10char

wow they actually fixed it, good on them, i still somewhat doubt they got all of them accurate because of the fact i somewhat doubt they adjusted the exp value of 3154 quests, specially since im pretty sure there wasnt even that many...

[Thunderball]

Want to touch on these 2 matters.

Warriors rely heavily on being able to be crit to proc talents, which is why Fury has been the dominant leveling spec on private servers due to it having strong early talents and the on-crit talents which massively boosts the warrior's DPS.

Also you are wrong about the front-stabbing, it is absolutely what makes Ferals(and Rogues to an extent) level extremely fast in Private servers. Shred and Backstab do humongous amounts of damage per energy, and they are balanced with the "must be behind target" requirement in mind. It still speeds up kill times by a very hefty amount, which translates into less need to pop out of form to regrowth+rejuv and just continue.

Especially for Rogues, front-stabbing makes Rogue leveling go from unbearable shit to pretty decent since you can actually kill mobs in the early levels without losing 80% of your health per mob. Rogues are unbelievably bad for leveling until they can get blue weapons and poisons to help their kill speed and therefore survivability.

1) Fury was always the optimal leveling spec until you get MS. People were just too lazy to respec at 40. Arms is still better after 40.
2) Rogues are not considered fast levellers, even with frontstabbing being a thing.
3) Feral levels fast regardless of you doing frontstabbing or not. Just try it out for yourself.