Should the Night Elves make Risen Zin'Azshari their new home?

[Dellis0991]

Yes, if only so one day the spell that keeps sea at bay can run out and drown them all once again.

That was cold blooded...

[ravenmoon]

I think you're assuming that those big names and their armies make up more of the survivors than what might have been. What of the Kaldorei empire residing in Hyjal, Eldre'thalas... pretty much everhwere on what later became kalimdor?

The people of Eldre'thalas did not join the resistance, they defeated their attackers with the help of Goldrinn, then his there, believed destroyed and forgotten, but instead capturing a demon of immense power and using it to continue their magic fuelled lifestyle, in denial of the catastrophe of the war and sundering. The anger at the shen'dralar highborne when they approached the Darnassians for allying was that they didnt lift a finger to stop the queen unleashing demons against the realm until their city was under attack. It was not for calling the demons to Azeroth cos they were not directly involved with that altho they were highborne. We are told this literally in wolf heart.

Hyjal was not occupied by any night elves during that period - WotA The Sundering novel tells you this outright. It was the place of the wild gods - Chronicles 1 tells and also shares the Queen did not like it towards the end of her reign.

The night elves did not flee their to commune with nature, it was the nearest highest ground to avoid being swallowed up by the sinking landmasses the sundering caused. The Sundering novel tells you this. If I recall correctly, the dragons took the palace and Zin'Azshari attack survivors there and all who survived were informed to gather there. Most of the army was encamped on the outskirts, which as you see from the east of Azshara zone did not all submerge.

It is only later with the new well established and Nordrassil grown to hide its power signature from the twisting nether that Malfurion leads the first druids and makes a pact with Ysera. Druid spirituality in connection with the wild gods develops from there.

Priest spirituality continues unrelated to the Hyjal wild gods, Elune is their focus.

Though the arcane is also present in the Well it is prohibited from being utilised for anything including rebuilding so the Legion doesn't discover it remains nor have the means to return. The night elves, Azeroth defenders, incl Cenarius and the dragons all believe from the night elves that the magic well is the true objective of the Legion, and it and casting spells from it is the only thing that can cause the legion to find Azeroth and portal them in. [hence the tree grown to mask the signature and casting from it prohibited - which results in zero detection, and ensuring no return happens - based on their then understanding which we find out much later was wrong]

They would learn 10k years later they were wrong on every count and Illidan was right. Although this was the case, I don't think people appreciate the enormous change they were willing to undergo and sacrifice of using the arcane to keep the world safe and protect it. Thinking the arcane was hated undermines the value and nobility and misses all the key points and motivations all of these decisions were made? Yes given the information they had, such a decision (as banning the arcane) and course of action (like not rebuilding or living without arcane magic) was a no brainer to noble honourable types when you understand what they believed would result if they used their precious magic or rebuilt, but it was still a huge sacrifice. People get lost in arcane hate of the night elves, missing the whole point.

This wasn't done because of arcane hate, it was done to prevent the legion from returning. The hate was at the Legion, not the arcane, the determination action to prevent arcane usage was not motivated out of hate for the arcane but out of preventing g the hated legion that would destroy Azeroth from returning, and if it was arcane magic that was their goal then they would deny them this source.

If you think about it, it doesn't make sense the night elves would hate arcane magic itself, which is what made them nufpght elves, enlightened them, and what they used to do wo ders. It makes perfect sense they would hate the legion and would choose living an existence without arcane magic if that is what ensured the legion returned.

It makes sense they would hate the culprits responsible for bri going the legion i,e, the Palacs highbornr and the attitudes that caused them to do such foolishness, I.e. arrogance, recklessness and addiction, it doesn't make sense they would hate civilization, great and very good things done with their power. These types would go without their kit d of civilization (which is an arcane based one) to prevent the evil world destroyers returning ing and wiping out everything, catterall, life without arcane is possible 8f far from ideal (except if you are a druid ofc)


Think about it. I did, it's been there all along. I may get emo sometimes, angry too with certain directions, sometimes make silly or very stretching posts, however I am not a complete idiot, not everything I say is silly or wrong or dtretching.

I can't accurately foretell what blizzard will do with Naz'jatar or night elves or the next pac or even Queen Azshara, so my thoughts on those are just guesses, however I can understand and read what they have already written on a race I've always been keen on, and I don't think you should dismiss everything g I say when it makes sense, especially when it sticks to the narrative and information

[mickybrighteyes]

The people of Eldre'thalas did not join the resistance, they defeated their attackers with the help of Goldrinn, then his there, believed destroyed and forgotten, but instead capturing a demon of immense power and using it to continue their magic fuelled lifestyle, in denial of the catastrophe of the war and sundering. The anger at the shen'dralar highborne when they approached the Darnassians for allying was that they didnt lift a finger to stop the queen unleashing demons against the realm until their city was under attack. It was not for calling the demons to Azeroth cos they were not directly involved with that altho they were highborne. We are told this literally in wolf heart.

Hyjal was not occupied by any night elves during that period - WotA The Sundering novel tells you this outright, it was the place of the wild gods, Chronicles 1 tells and the Queen did not like it towards the end of her reign.

Hyjal may have not been inhabited but it was still labeled as Kaldorei territory... as was ashenvale with holdings of some sort, hell basically the entirety of kalimdor is within the empire. With a smattering of named locations that have stuck around in some fashion, particularly in Ashenvale and the old forested regions of the continent. We see the remnants of old elven architecture all the way tot eh western coast of the continent from Feralas and Desolace on northward till the northern coast. So again, Hyjal might not have been very populated, but what about the regions that would become felwood and desolace or Ashenvale and Stonetalon? IT seems rather dubious to argue the majority of the current elves are from one location on the other side of the world when the empire was stated to cover almost the entire known world.

I'm going to once again say you might be too focused on your view of what Night elves are rather than what we're shown.

[Eazy]

Not really. That's not only a bad idea, but also a very stupid one. We won't use a place available for everyone to be an Alliance hub in the future. That never happened and never will.

[ravenmoon]

Hyjal may have not been inhabited but it was still labeled as Kaldorei territory...

Oh was that what you meant? The way you worded it made me feel you thought survivors also comprised of Hyjal night elven residents, further diluting the point that the majority of the Long vigil non-highborne group were night elves from Suramar.


I didn't think you simply meant it was Kaldorei territory, I knew that.

I am curious if you think most of the current Darnassians aren't fro suramar.. do you think that? Why do youthink that when the story has the bulk of the army as the ones that survived and the ones that made their way to Hyjal and started this different society. It does say survivors from all around the shattered empire made their way there, but the whole account describes the night elves experienced a genocide at the hands of the legion - the legion destroyed their cities - not the sundering, the sundering sunk the land masses, but the cities were already destroyed, the people slaughtered. I have no idea what the number of other survivers could be, but by far the largest surviving group (outside those that stayed in Eldre'thalas hiding or those that shielded up in Suramar and remained in the regions that didn't sink like Monguard stronghold and Val'sharah ) could not have been that much.

as was ashenvale with holdings of some sort, hell basically the entirety of kalimdor is within the empire. With a smattering of named locations that have stuck around in some fashion, particularly in Ashenvale and the old forested regions of the continent. We see the remnants of old elven architecture all the way tot eh western coast of the continent from Feralas and Desolace on northward till the northern coast. So again, Hyjal might not have been very populated, but what about the regions that would become felwood and desolace or Ashenvale and Stonetalon? IT seems rather dubious to argue the majority of the current elves are from one location on the other side of the world when the empire was stated to cover almost the entire known world.

I'm going to once again say you might be too focused on your view of what Night elves are rather than what we're shown.

Yes we do, but no I'm not too focused on my view, I'm tyring to be objective, but I think there are some crosswires hire. Yes, Ashenvale, up to Darkshore/Desolace/Feralas in the west was all part of the empire,but all the night elf cities, inhabitants were destroyed by the legion - this is what the account says. The demons were hunting night elves with fel hounds, sucking their magical life force out of them nad destroying them. The legion destroyed all those ciites whose ruins we see, and the homes, and villages.

We thought every thing was wiped out but those who gathered in Hyjal, the ones who formed the resistance we felt were the only survivors until we found out Eldre'thalas survived but chose to remain hidden in their city, and a part of Suramar survived too, though no one knew people were living or survived under that shield.

It is after the sundering that the night elf survivors guard the secret of the well atop mount hyjal by patrolling vigorously the areas of the surrounding forests - we find the druids during the long vigil have a major presence in Hyjal and Stonetalon mountain, it is from stonetalon mountain they suppress the use of arcane magic, in efforts of preventing detection or another race discovering this and repeating their mistakes, they also shroud the continent in mists which is why Eastern Kingdom races can't find kalimdor orknow of it till WC3. Druids don't live in tree homes or houses, they slept in caves (nicely decorated ofc) for millennia at a time working in the eemerlad dream, and while awake roamed the wilds fulfilling hteir duty to nature with the sons and daughters of Cenarius) -

[Beloren]

Would you say Most americans are from New York. While New York is a central feature of and quite established in the american way of Life and a major part of first world economics... I don't think it would be comparable to say every american would view the city or the surrounding area in the same light.

Take for example the Kaldorei empire...


Take note of the size and scope of the empire and where Surumar is located. Now suggesting that every elf is from that one point seems a bit foolish. I will liken Surumar to New York City if you will. Not all elves are likely from Surumar, but a number that have been showcased clearly have been.

Edit: I'm more referring to the city itself rather than a region or kingdom of the same name.

Fair enough, I see your point there. A lot would have come from Suramar, the core and leading bunch too, but a lot would also be from all over.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really. That's not only a bad idea, but also a very stupid one. We won't use a place available for everyone to be an Alliance hub in the future. That never happened and never will.

We would never do or see things we've never done or seen before?

[Eazy]

We would never do or see things we've never done or seen before?

Such a thing I meant.

It's a max-level content area, Blizzard will never change it to an Alliance hub. Can you imagine if Timeless Isle went for the Horde? I don't mean the lore outrage, but the achievements/players/bosses/rares etc.

[Lothaeryn]

It's the Story of the night elves.
"With the majority of the Highborne dead, the kaldorei turned away from their arcane legacy and began a new culture focusing on attunement with nature and their surroundings, settling in the sacred glades around Mount Hyjal."
Source: Wowpedia

They turned away from their arcane heritage and everything that had to do with it, including Zin-Azshari which was the Capital of the Highborne and is a symbol for the arcane empire that lead to the great sundering in the first place.

And they did a full 180 on that the second they accepted the Shen'Dralar into their ranks.

Everyone here saying the Night Elves are "different now" fail to realize why they even took the long vigil route. They were scared as fuck of the Legion returning to finish the job. They saw arcane magic brought them there so they abolished it as a safety measure, nothing more.

Haughty Highborne, being classists like they were, refused on principle, since they knew magics' potential and refused to reduce their stature. They became Blood Elves ultimately.

Just because the majority of the Kaldorei refused to practice magic doesn't mean they abhor it. They didn't want to use magic because it could potentially end the world, one that was permanently scarred and barely survived the first time.

If your survive the nuclear apocalypse. You probably wont be inclined to use nukes or any technology associated with it for a looooong damn while. And if you know alien invaders nearly wiped you out because of the nuclear tech your former society used. You'd probably not use it period until that threat was dealt with.

Well. For all intents and purposes, the Legion is done for; the Long Vigil is over and magic is no longer a threat to society since that looming threat is now dealt with. If the Night elves want, they will use arcane magic. Especially since magic users are now a part of their society and happily training new generations in the ancient art.

[Justintime328]

The burning tree will forever be there home.

[Feanoro]

What I'd like to see is New Darnassus*, specifically keeping touches of the Greek temple mixed with nature style, along with some touches of Suramar but not to the point of its decadence.

What we'll probably see is the park burning from Deathwing... sorry, the tree burning from Sylvanas for about three expansions before they toss a bone.


* One of the better references, the name refers to Mount Parnassus in Greece, where Apollo and the Muses were supposed to be. Fits the arcane/nature theme very well.