9.0 General Discussion

[ercarp]

I still think the Jailer is a titan who drew the short straw and got the "shitty job" of hanging out in the death realm. Maybe Aman'Thul's son or brother or something along those lines.

[Merryck]

I still think the Jailer is a titan who drew the short straw and got the "shitty job" of hanging out in the death realm. Maybe Aman'Thul's son or brother or something along those lines.

yeah he definitely could be the hades of WoW.

[EbaumsTipster]

I still think the Jailer is a titan who drew the short straw and got the "shitty job" of hanging out in the death realm. Maybe Aman'Thul's son or brother or something along those lines.

We already have a death titan in the form of Argus, unless he was not supposed to be what he turned out to be (unlikely, considering that Shadowlands was definitely cooking at that time and he is a blue guy shooting blue orbs of death).

[Sondrelk]

I still think the Jailer is a titan who drew the short straw and got the "shitty job" of hanging out in the death realm. Maybe Aman'Thul's son or brother or something along those lines.

I find that hard to believe, as it would be a pretty blatant retcon where none is needed. It would also cause several pertinent questions, like what is the jailers elemental affinity, because we know that it cannot really be death, since Argus already occupies that spot.

Overall i would prefer if the Jailer is a separate entity, and just happens to look similar.

[Onikaroshi]

I do not think that is correct at all. Only really if you consider faction war a strict "red vs. blue" throughout. A different valid interpretation is that faction war is fighting against enemies that are not unlike yourself. Garrosh is the leader of the Horde, whether the Horde agreed with him or not. And we fought him for ideological reasons, not strictly for survival like with old gods or the Burning Legion.

Even beyond that, the inviting incident of MoP is Garrosh attacking the Alliance. This thread carries over the entire expansion until we defeat Garrosh in Orgrimmar. Sure the horde players were aligned with Garrosh at the beginning and fought against him at the end, but it is still a derivative of faction war. It was just not strictly Alliance vs. Horde. But instead Alliance and Horde vs Slightly different Horde. It is still factions.
Similarly in BfA the inciting incident is Sylvanas burning Teldrassil, this thread carries over the expansion until 8.2.5, when it is quickly dropped in favor of N'zoth. With the idea that it will continue in Shadowlands. Which ironically means that the faction war is still ongoing.

That's only if you consider every group of enemies in the game a "faction". But for a general sense, Faction War in wow ALWAYS refers to the very Red v. Blue Horde v. Alliance.

Once the player horde turns against garrosh, it's not a faction war in the WoW sense.

If you consider a faction war as in Garrosh's faction, or N'zoths faction, then EVERY war is a faction war. The fight against the Lich King would be very much a faction war at that point.

[EbaumsTipster]

I find that hard to believe, as it would be a pretty blatant retcon where none is needed. It would also cause several pertinent questions, like what is the jailers elemental affinity, because we know that it cannot really be death, since Argus already occupies that spot.

Overall i would prefer if the Jailer is a separate entity, and just happens to look similar.

I would much prefer that Jailer is just Alt Aman'thul or something closely related to him over there being another titan they sent into Shadowlands because they didn't know where Argus was.

[Merryck]

Maybe Argus is thanatos and The Jailer is hades

[formerShandalay]

I'm starting to think those stills with everyone being ghosty and getting on the ghosty boats may be more credible than we thought.

I have been thinking about those a lot in the context of a possible pre-patch, since we learned the world of Azeroth was going to get overrun by undead after the Helm of Domination gets broken.

[Pyreo]

I still think the Jailer is a titan who drew the short straw and got the "shitty job" of hanging out in the death realm. Maybe Aman'Thul's son or brother or something along those lines.

Didn't they say that the Shadowlands pre-date the Titans at Blizzcon?

[ercarp]

we know that it cannot really be death, since Argus already occupies that spot.

Argus occupies that role on Argus. Could be that the Jailer is just the Argus of Azeroth. But that raises even more questions, like why would he be named after the planet instead of just being another "Jailer"? I'm not that big into speculating to be honest. I'm just waiting to be either blown away or disappointed.

[Fluffernut]

I have been thinking about those a lot in the context of a possible pre-patch, since we learned the world of Azeroth was going to get overrun by undead after the Helm of Domination gets broken.

Same - I am guessing pre-patch but hoping for SUPERSURPIRSEENDINGCINEMATIC!

[EbaumsTipster]

Keep in mind that Jailer seems to be a much less integral "role" in the Shadowlands aside from keeping watch over the Maw. I think that was done intentionally so someone like Sylvanas can get shoved into it and Jailer get axed without breaking the universe as we know it.

The added bonus is that it makes the Jailer character less integrated to "Death" than the Arbiter, so it may be something less connected to death as much as something else (like Time if he's Aman'thul or Void if he's a void lord).

[Sondrelk]

That's only if you consider every group of enemies in the game a "faction". But for a general sense, Faction War in wow ALWAYS refers to the very Red v. Blue Horde v. Alliance.

Once the player horde turns against garrosh, it's not a faction war in the WoW sense.

If you consider a faction war as in Garrosh's faction, or N'zoths faction, then EVERY war is a faction war.

While that is somewhat true, i am not sure what else you would call it.

The burning Legion is certainly a faction, certainly in the literal sense. But the important distinction is that they, and to the same extent Old Gods. Are not part of the collective of "us". They are an outside threat who are opposed to us as a whole.
Alliance and Horde however are loose coalitions who are not actually the same existential threat to eachother. The differences that causes conflict is more ideological than anything. Whereas the Burning Legion kills us because that is just what they do.

Regardless. My point isnt that fighting against Garrosh is literally the same as fighting as the Alliance against the Horde or vice versa, but that Garrosh and his True Horde was a natural escalation of the faction war up to that point that served to give players a convenient scapegoat to pile all the problem onto.
And like it or not, it is still technically Alliance vs. Horde. The Horde players simply rebelled and joined with the Alliance forces to fight themselves. Garrosh was the Horde Warchief at the beginning, and when we fight him he is still the Horde warchief. Most of the Horde races might have left, but Garrosh is still the leader of the Horde, ruling from the traaditional seat of Orgrimmar.

- - - Updated - - -

I would much prefer that Jailer is just Alt Aman'thul or something closely related to him over there being another titan they sent into Shadowlands because they didn't know where Argus was.

Personally i find that to be unecessarily complicated.
The Shadowlands are said to predate the titans, so that means the titans essentially sacrificed one of their own to take care of a realm that as far as they know, worked just fine.
What are we supposed to assume they wanted to do with the Shadowlands, and why was it so pertinent they sacrificed one of their own when their only motivation at that time was to find more titans.

It would also dilute Sargeras' position as the evil titan to have another equally evil titan who wants what i assume to be most of the same. The death of all the cosmos.

[goldentforce]

The Jailer can be an "anti-titan". Does this exist in wow ?

I know most of the cosmic content comes from the book chronicle, which is said to be from a titan POV, which could mean bias, lies,etc. Jailor and arbiter are probably characters that are supposed to tie us into the cosmic elements of death. So probably less "anti" titans but there must be a force of death that is fills the cosmic space, and there must be a reason the void specifically fears death to such a substanial degree. Wouldn't be surprised if theres some lore plottwist that opens up another or multiple cosmic forces. Either we are tricked by death or tricked into fighting death. or we ruin a cosmic balance and another force comes up.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

He might just be a Titan thats not really affiliated with the Pantheon but they were aware of the Jailer's...well identity.

[Onikaroshi]

While that is somewhat true, i am not sure what else you would call it.

The burning Legion is certainly a faction, certainly in the literal sense. But the important distinction is that they, and to the same extent Old Gods. Are not part of the collective of "us". They are an outside threat who are opposed to us as a whole.
Alliance and Horde however are loose coalitions who are not actually the same existential threat to eachother. The differences that causes conflict is more ideological than anything. Whereas the Burning Legion kills us because that is just what they do.

Regardless. My point isnt that fighting against Garrosh is literally the same as fighting as the Alliance against the Horde or vice versa, but that Garrosh and his True Horde was a natural escalation of the faction war up to that point that served to give players a convenient scapegoat to pile all the problem onto.
And like it or not, it is still technically Alliance vs. Horde. The Horde players simply rebelled and joined with the Alliance forces to fight themselves. Garrosh was the Horde Warchief at the beginning, and when we fight him he is still the Horde warchief. Most of the Horde races might have left, but Garrosh is still the leader of the Horde, ruling from the traaditional seat of Orgrimmar.

Most people i've talked to don't see it that way, and I just can't agree, but i think that's enough on that anyway. Shadowlands isn't a standard faction war at least, thankfully, as even if we fight Sylvanas (which i really hope we don't), she's not the warchief anymore, or part of the horde.

[Sondrelk]

Most people i've talked to don't see it that way, and I just can't agree, but i think that's enough on that anyway. Shadowlands isn't a standard faction war at least, thankfully, as even if we fight Sylvanas (which i really hope we don't), she's not the warchief anymore, or part of the horde.

While she is not part of the Horde, and the faction war is therefore ended from that point of view, she is still the inciting villain of BfA, a faction war expansion. And she has yet to be defeated in a way that actually concludes the storyline set up with Teldrassil. So in a way BfA is still ongoing, and it will technically still be ongoing until we defeat her in such a way that it caps off her actions at Teldrassil and beyond.

[Sharby]

Sylvanas should get the same treatment Garrosh did in WoD, have her be the climax to the initial levelling quest chain similar to Jaina's in BFA. Tyrande/Malf deserve to get the killing blow on her and she needs a death cinematic, having her as a dungeon/raid boss would be lame.



Nathanos can be one of the two though, man do I want to farm his dumbass over and over.

[Hyrja]

[Merryck]

-snip-

did this hypetrain ever get all the signatures