9.0 General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

This doesn't seem congruent with reality.
People will always want you to perform as well as possible. That means the best talents, the best Azerite traits, the best essences, the best corruption.

Players expect a certain level of competence, sure. But unless you fall far outside that curve then most people woudlnt give a toss what choices led you to that point.

[Marlamin]

Y'all slow

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23310980

[Raetary]

This doesn't seem congruent with reality.
People will always want you to perform as well as possible. That means the best talents, the best Azerite traits, the best essences, the best corruption.

The (high) majority of players is definitely not gonna fully check out anyones profile.
They'll glance over your .io score and/or ask for an achievement which can be faked easily and then invite you based on that tiny amount of info.

I've fooled enough people for invites to know that.

[johnny download]

Y'all slow

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23310980

hooooooooo ty!

[Sondrelk]

Y'all slow

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23310980

Hunter stable size has increased! Praise RNGeus. Our prayers have been heard!!

[Raetary]

Y'all slow

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23310980

Alter Time also comes back from the past, allowing Mages of all specs to show off their temporal mastery. When cast, this spell gives the Mage the ability to return to their initial location, with the same health and mana, after casting it a second time or after a short duration.

YEEEEEEES.
Good fuck i missed alter time.

[Hyrja]

@Laubman

[FlubberPuddy]

Y'all slow

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23310980

Thank you Mr. Birb!

[johnny download]

Two hand frost, leggo

[Yarathir]

The return of 2H Frost DK is pretty based.
Right in time for a Frostmourne weapon transmog.

[Makorus]

Weird how they bring onehanded and twohanded styles back for everything but Fury

[Yarathir]

YEEEEEEES.
Good fuck i missed alter time.

Same. I always loved the idea of playing something akin to a Chronomancer.

Nightborne made it more desirable.

[EbaumsTipster]

Weird how they bring onehanded and twohanded styles back for everything but Fury

Yeah I have no idea. Maybe to make it super speshul despite that being the one thing every Fury player wants back?

[Makorus]

Yeah I have no idea. Maybe to make it super speshul despite that being the one thing every Fury player wants back?

I mean, dont get me wrong, I think two onehanded Fury is incredibly stupid and boring and I dont know why you would choose that over wielding two twohanders, but its just so odd, because might as well go all the way.

[EbaumsTipster]

I mean, dont get me wrong, I think two onehanded Fury is incredibly stupid and boring and I dont know why you would choose that over wielding two twohanders, but its just so odd, because might as well go all the way.

Some people don't like using two stupidly giant weapons and would like to use normal looking swords without playing Rogue or (now) DK.

[Sondrelk]

Kinda worried by the seeming lack of changes to MM, might be more comprehensive with smaller QoL changes, but the changes we seem to be getting doesnt make me think they are getting to the root of the problems with the spec at the moment.

[Sharby]

This doesn't seem congruent with reality.
People will always want you to perform as well as possible. That means the best talents, the best Azerite traits, the best essences, the best corruption.

Also the idea that people only have these expectations because they're dickheads is a myth.


Things like RIO, Aotc, etc etc exist because when making a pug group you don't know any of the players who are applying for your group, which means each of them is a risk. These parameters exist not because people are toxic but to minimize risk and increase the chance they will help you succeed, which is just logical as succeeding in this game, especially in a timely manner(M+) rewards objectively better rewards.


Sure Johnny could be an amazing player and perform excellently with shitty essences and talents, but I don't know that because I don't know him. And I'm not going to risk him single-handedly cooking my key when I can invite Bella who is optimized with a good IO.

I have nothing against Johnny, I just care about my time.

I would be really curious to know what percentage of the players (that pull their own weight in group activities) enjoy swapping talents for each activity they do, vs those that feel obliged and find it tedious, vs those that don’t care/don’t swap and still participate in raiding, pvp and m+.
Elements that make mmorpgs fun for me are lost when you can, at will, switch around who your character is/what he does.

But then what do you think about being able to swap talents in any rested area, or the idea that Blizzard specifically put in an item that lets you respect anywhere? Why should Covenants be different? When everything similar in the game is easily swappable?

Historically Blizzard has been supporting player flexibility more and more as time goes on with the introduction of dual-spec and eventually multi-spec as well as going from gold cost to respect talents to it being free in rested areas. Obviously flexibility does have negative consequences (removal of PvP vendors) but this shows that they are not against the idea of being versatile with your character. Nor should they, because versatility helps extend an MMO's longevity, if I get bored of M+ I can join a guild a raid at the same level, if I get bored of raiding I am able to do high-end pvp, etc. I play longer because there is more to do. Yes, you could still do this with the current covenant system, but only if you are the type of player to not care about performance, which means any high-end content and even some mid-range content is locked to you. Basically pigeonholing players into either not giving a shit or stressing out over it when in the past this was very rare to run into.

Legiondaries had the same issue at the start that if you got unlucky you could get a very terrible legendary for the content you were doing (>5% performance difference) until you unlocked more. The difference with Legiondaries and Covenants is that eventually you would have every single Legiondary for your spec and could swap them at any time to suit whatever it is that you're doing.


Covenants(so far) don't have that perk, and instead are essentially are like if once you unlocked two Legiondaries, if you wanted different ones you would have to destroy the two you currently have. Or even for example if you couldn't collect every essence and had to regrind Naz/Mech to unlock them again if you needed them.

This doesn't work in a game where time is so closely related to effectiveness.

[Valysar]

In addition, Immolation Aura (originally a Vengeance-only ability) will be available to both specs.

Well... IA was a Havoc talent, so, weird to say that it was a Vengeance only ability

[EbaumsTipster]

Kinda worried by the seeming lack of changes to MM, might be more comprehensive with smaller QoL changes, but the changes we seem to be getting doesnt make me think they are getting to the root of the problems with the spec at the moment.

Between their big thing being MORE STABLES! for Hunters (and lack of anything for SV) I think they recognize that 99% of hunter players are casual BM pet-collectors and don't give a shit about the other specs. Waste of time for them.

[serra2]

Kinda worried by the seeming lack of changes to MM, might be more comprehensive with smaller QoL changes, but the changes we seem to be getting doesnt make me think they are getting to the root of the problems with the spec at the moment.

Meanwhile, Survival's big class changes are.... some damage buffs to low performing talents, and a focus cost reduction for an ability I forgot we had.