9.0 General Discussion

[BullyZJ]

Or, counterpoint:
>Players whined about the guides telling them what to pick, a few players obessively change covenants
>Right before the Nathria opens a big covenant balance patch comes out, all covenants+soulbinds are now as good as equal
>Players who chose what they enjoyed now get that smug feeling that comes from not having to change covenants at the drop of a hat
>Hardcore players who did care complain while more casual players keep enjoying the cosmeitcs and playing what they enjoy

I get your point, but if you look at past, in my opinion, Harbour's version is more likely to happen.

[Sondrelk]

I get your point, but if you look at past, in my opinion, Harbour's version is more likely to happen.

In the past the game also veered harder into the hardcore avenue with unlimited AoE on all classes and generally widening the disparity between different versions of damage.

There is also the fact that the Covenant abilities are fairly straightforward and rarely influence your main rotation much, if at all. Not to mention that unlike Legiondaries and Azerite this is given to you at the beginning, you get to make a choice that has no real strings attached and then you have it, you don't partially have it like Azerite, or have to hope you eventually get it within a reasonable timeframe like Legiondaries. You just pick it and you have it.

[wraysbury]

>Right before the Nathria opens a big covenant balance patch comes out, all covenants+soulbinds are now as good as equal

It must be nice to live in Bizarro world. Do you have covid-19 over there?

[Sondrelk]

It must be nice to live in Bizarro world. Do you have covid-19 over there?

And what exactly makes you think the abilities cannot be balanced? They are single abilities for the most part wholly removed from the rest of your toolkit. This isnt one talent that has knockon effects throughout your spec, it is a single ability you press maybe once every 30 seconds, if not longer.

[HailToTheKing]

For all the incels maybe.

Really? A bunch of you go on and rightly point out the immorality of Sylv's actions, and yet champion the sociopath who for all intents and purposes murdered, spiritually raped, and enslaved her?

I am disappoint.

It's what Sylvanas deserves for being the worst character in the game.

[wraysbury]

And what exactly makes you think the abilities cannot be balanced? They are single abilities for the most part wholly removed from the rest of your toolkit. This isnt one talent that has knockon effects throughout your spec, it is a single ability you press maybe once every 30 seconds, if not longer.

It's not one ability. It's two abilities (the covenant signature ability + the covenant class specific ability), plus whatever the hell conduits will give, which seems quite a lot (similar to azerite traits from what we've seen so far).

Four covenant time 36 specs equals 144 covenant+spec combinations (multiplied by all the conduit setup combinations). It is unrealistic to expect a good balance. Which ones of those will turn out to be grossly overpowered in a specific situation that they didn't test and will have to be nerfed?

Keep also in mind that the current trend of grindy and time gated gear progression promotes a strong min-maxing culture. When it takes ages to geear up, you are incited to minmax to get the most out of whatever gear you did manage to get so far.

[huth]

It's not one ability. It's two abilities (the covenant signature ability + the covenant class specific ability), plus whatever the hell conduits will give, which seems quite a lot (similar to azerite traits from what we've seen so far).

Conduits appear to be global, though, so Covenant choice doesn't really matter there.

[wraysbury]

Conduits appear to be global, though, so Covenant choice doesn't really matter there.

It's kinda of hard to tell yet but the conduit stuff datamined so far by wowhead seemed to have covenant specific themes.

[Dracullus]

Why even mention the time difference in Shadowlands then? It has been brought up multiple times: even in Legion.

The time stuff wouldn't exist unless there was a reason for it.

He just said time flows different in Shadowlands. Who knows what it can mean, it may be even his brain fart. It's not like he came with this to us, he was asked about it in interview and basically said "sure why not".

But he was certain we will be connected to Azeroth to only in gameplay, there will be portal from Oribos and some people will cross to SL this way, including Bolvar. Time skip makes 0 sense in that scenario, unless that connection will be lost (lorewise) in later patches.

[Defend]

Lot of vitriol in here, just know Paul loves you all

[Blayze]

Lot of vitriol in here, just know Paul loves you all

This is moderately confusing, given my name's Paul.

[huth]

It's kinda of hard to tell yet but the conduit stuff datamined so far by wowhead seemed to have covenant specific themes.

No, they don't. The Soulbinds do, the Conduits don't. Conduits appear to be spec specific, but so far we haven't seen any Covenant specific ones.

[Jaggler]

We all are Paul

[wraysbury]

No, they don't. The Soulbinds do, the Conduits don't. Conduits appear to be spec specific, but so far we haven't seen any Covenant specific ones.

Ah yeah, soulbinds, conduits, whatever. That's still another spec specific layer of customization that multiplies the number of combinations.

[EbaumsTipster]

I have no idea how someone can make the conclusion that wanting Arthas to kill Sylvanas is fueled by sexism except in the case of trying to bait for replies.

I understand the idea, even if it's disingenous. Arthas killing Sylvanas would be "problematic" because he was the one massacred her and who turned her into a monster in the first place, for his amusement(?).

HOWEVER, people have been forgetting that Blizzard has been adamant that Frostmourne!Arthas was corrupt and not "actually" Arthas. So any kind of Arthas that appears in Shadowlands would be Uncorrupted.

It actually could be sort of poetic in a fucked up way if Uncorrupted Arthas has to deal with his Corrupted Form's lingering presence in the form of Sylvanas.

[huth]

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/item...trait-covenant

Which can be used with all Covenants from the looks of it. And isn't even remotely finished.

[Yarathir]

What are the odds on Upright Forsaken now?

Not sure what made anyone think they'd just make previously unannounced posture (essentially animation-driven) changes to any race without making any hubhub about it.

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Not very far off either, if you read the description of the book.

Yeah they aren't gonna reward Arthas to make the incels happy, sorry to say.

Why would Arthas being rewarded make Sylvanas fans happy?

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I understand the idea, even if it's disingenous. Arthas killing Sylvanas would be "problematic" because he was the one massacred her and who turned her into a monster in the first place, for his amusement(?).

That doesn't make it problematic, that makes it amusing. The whole basis of her story and what lead up to this is what Arthas did to her, and she's flaunted it as if it is somehow a justification for everything she has done since.

At this point, she's worse than Arthas, so to take the event that most affected her in her life and repeat/finish it before she perishes is karmic.

[FlubberPuddy]

Think of Arthas as Warcraft's Version of Anakin, with Uther being like Obi Wan, but more of a dick, ya know?

Anakin was another character that popped up in my head so that seems accurate enough lol

[Sondrelk]

Anakin was another character that popped up in my head so that seems accurate enough lol

Arthas is in amyn ways the orignal Darth Vader expy. And similarly to Anakin there is no good reason given for why he can't get a redemption arc. Hell, he kinda got a redemption at the end of WotLK with the soft music when he died, giving him a proper redemption but not allowing him to return to Azeroth would in a way be the perfect conclusion to his character, realizing that while he did evil things he can still atone, even if he has to atone forever.

[gunner_recall]

Arthas is in amyn ways the orignal Darth Vader expy. And similarly to Anakin there is no good reason given for why he can't get a redemption arc. Hell, he kinda got a redemption at the end of WotLK with the soft music when he died, giving him a proper redemption but not allowing him to return to Azeroth would in a way be the perfect conclusion to his character, realizing that while he did evil things he can still atone, even if he has to atone forever.

Well, there is one reason.

Vader died saving his son. Arthas is already dead and also doesn't have a son.

But I definitely think he's going to end up either becoming The New Jailer or ascending to be a Kyrian and becoming the New Arbiter.