9.0 General Discussion

[therumblings]

Shadowlands looks exciting for sure, and it has lots of cosmetics like Legion did. BFA was insanely lackluster outside of the heritage sets and some of the first warfront sets.

Worgen Heritage armor still makes me cry

[EbaumsTipster]

With the torments gone, the biggest point of contention seems to be covenant abilities. I'm wondering if they will announce a talent row system for them after all.

[therumblings]

They need to work on actual talents instead of building rental power systems every single expansion, I liked that one guy's concept on reddit of mixing both talent systems of the past.

[Aresk]

I'm surprised they didn't retcon Thros out of existence.

I mean, they sort of did, right? According to Chronicles, the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands are different planes. According to 2018 Blizzcon, Thros was part of the Emerald Dream (a section of the Nightmare, specifically), and according to the recent Ardenweald article, Thros is part of the Shadowlands. They literally retconned it out of one plane of existence and into another.

Then again, Cenarius returned from the Emerald Dream in Slash and Burn, whereas we know now he would have actually come from Ardenweald, so maybe this is just to keep things consistent. Or Chronicle is wrong and the Emerald Dream/Shadowlands aren't separate realms. Who knows anymore?

[therumblings]

I mean, they sort of did, right? According to Chronicles, the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands are different planes. According to 2018 Blizzcon, Thros was part of the Emerald Dream (a section of the Nightmare, specifically), and according to the recent Ardenweald article, Thros is part of the Shadowlands. They literally retconned it out of one plane of existence and into another.

Then again, Cenarius returned from the Emerald Dream in Slash and Burn, whereas we know now he would have actually come from Ardenweald, so maybe this is just to keep things consistent. Or Chronicle is wrong and the Emerald Dream/Shadowlands aren't separate realms. Who knows anymore?

It always made more sense for Thros to be part of the Shadowlands as opposed to the Emerald Dream, besides what he was saying was probably malleable and not yet set in stone.

[EbaumsTipster]

I mean, they sort of did, right? According to Chronicles, the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands are different planes. According to 2018 Blizzcon, Thros was part of the Emerald Dream (a section of the Nightmare, specifically), and according to the recent Ardenweald article, Thros is part of the Shadowlands. They literally retconned it out of one plane of existence and into another.

Then again, Cenarius returned from the Emerald Dream in Slash and Burn, whereas we know now he would have actually come from Ardenweald, so maybe this is just to keep things consistent. Or Chronicle is wrong and the Emerald Dream/Shadowlands aren't separate realms. Who knows anymore?

Nothing on that page says that Thros is in Ardenweald, it says the Drust are attacking FROM Thros.

Thros being a corrupted section of the ED (the Drustvar part specifically) means they can attack Azeroth AND Ardenweald, as the ED is connected to Ardenweald being both are life realms (ED is a titan made life realm, Ardenweald is the galactic nexus of dead life spirits). No lore is broken here.

[therumblings]

Nothing on that page says that Thros is in Ardenweald, it says the Drust are attacking FROM Thros.

Thros being a corrupted section of the ED (the Drustvar part specifically) means they can attack Azeroth AND Ardenweald, as the ED is connected to Ardenweald being both are life realms (ED is a titan made life realm, Ardenweald is the galactic nexus of dead life spirits). No lore is broken here.

I guess this is also true, I'd like to see a Thros patch of Shadowlands similar in size to maybe Mechagon or Nazjatar though.

[FlubberPuddy]

With the torments gone, the biggest point of contention seems to be covenant abilities. I'm wondering if they will announce a talent row system for them after all.

I think they're going to wait to have the entire system in before they make changes to it (soulbinds/conduits/legendaries).

Because it would feel really dumb to say make them a talent row, and then your soulbinds still only affect that one specific ability.

If they go the route of saying 'fuck it let's let them get any soulbind/legendary/conduit' well then they just make choosing a covenant very superficial. It would feel like the difference between playing the War Campaign on an Alliance character vs a Horde character - sure the set pieces may be different but the differences weren't impactful at all (unlike the Class Order Hall campaigns for instance).

[EbaumsTipster]

I guess this is also true, I'd like to see a Thros patch of Shadowlands similar in size to maybe Mechagon or Nazjatar though.

Thros likely isn't a real zone because as we see in BFA, it's just a blue/misty version of Drustvar. This matches up with the lore that the Emerald Dream is more or less an exact copy of Azeroth (and likely why it was never a real zone: because the devs couldn't find a way to make "Azeroth but greener" interesting enough).

As the Drust are vrykul and somehow have knowledge of the Shadowlands, enough to breach Ardenweald, I think they'll likely have a connection to Helya or the Jailer in some way fruther down the road. But because they are a repeat threat Blizz isn't going to use them THAT much.

[Sondrelk]

Worgen Heritage armor still makes me cry

In hindsight i think the problem with it is more that male Worgen have to use it. It looks great on the human models as well as the female Worgen model. But on the male Worgen it looks far too bulky and top-heavy.
It is pretty great to use in combination with other pieces though. And honestly I would rather it be that than a set that only works as a whole and nothing else.

The coat should have been longer though.

- - - Updated - - -

Thros likely isn't a real zone because as we see in BFA, it's just a blue/misty version of Drustvar. This matches up with the lore that the Emerald Dream is more or less an exact copy of Azeroth (and likely why it was never a real zone: because the devs couldn't find a way to make "Azeroth but greener" interesting enough).

As the Drust are vrykul and somehow have knowledge of the Shadowlands, enough to breach Ardenweald, I think they'll likely have a connection to Helya or the Jailer in some way fruther down the road. But because they are a repeat threat Blizz isn't going to use them THAT much.

Lore on what the Emerald Dream looks like seems like it changes every otehr expansion though.
First it was a completely separate realm that literally was supposed to look like a dev area. Then it was a green tint on the overworld. Then in Legion we learned that there were layers to it, and that the further down you went the more likely you were to get weird geography.

Thros could be really interesting if they go by the assumption of deep layer of the Dream corrupted by death magic.

[therumblings]

In hindsight i think the problem with it is more that male Worgen have to use it. It looks great on the human models as well as the female Worgen model. But on the male Worgen it looks far too bulky and top-heavy.
It is pretty great to use in combination with other pieces though. And honestly I would rather it be that than a set that only works as a whole and nothing else.

The coat should have been longer though.

The textures aren't even that good either. Compare the bulky oversized top hat, shoulders and the flat short 2d leathery parts to Greymane's armor. It's enough to make a grown man cry... in disappointment

[EbaumsTipster]

Lore on what the Emerald Dream looks like seems like it changes every otehr expansion though.
First it was a completely separate realm that literally was supposed to look like a dev area. Then it was a green tint on the overworld. Then in Legion we learned that there were layers to it, and that the further down you went the more likely you were to get weird geography.

Thros could be really interesting if they go by the assumption of deep layer of the Dream corrupted by death magic.

Thros could absolutely be a patch content but it can't be just Drustvar again. They MIGHT make it so that it's generally the "Vrykul death realm" (where Helheim is a part of) and have that patch deal with Helya and Odyn, who seem to be missing at the moment.

Vrykul stuff fits in with the overall Lich King theme and is missing at the moment.

[kaid]

Realistic: Ion will talk about max level content on Alpha beside Torghast.

Optimistic: He will announce Beta this month.

Pessimistic: Recap about stuff we already know.

And revealing release date 5-6 months before launch doesn't make sense for me.



So in your world same people work in art and design teams and Ion just swap resources between them?

I have to assume the big announce is beta wave starting this month. The timing is right for it and I think the last major zones are in and all the classes up in torgast.

[Aresk]

Nothing on that page says that Thros is in Ardenweald, it says the Drust are attacking FROM Thros.

Thros being a corrupted section of the ED (the Drustvar part specifically) means they can attack Azeroth AND Ardenweald, as the ED is connected to Ardenweald being both are life realms (ED is a titan made life realm, Ardenweald is the galactic nexus of dead life spirits). No lore is broken here.

My bad, read that as Thros being a nightmarish realm of the Shadowlands (sort of neighboring Ardenweald), but having reread the article, I realize I was projecting some mental conception that wasn't really there. Thanks for calling me out on that!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Lore on what the Emerald Dream looks like seems like it changes every otehr expansion though.
First it was a completely separate realm that literally was supposed to look like a dev area. Then it was a green tint on the overworld. Then in Legion we learned that there were layers to it, and that the further down you went the more likely you were to get weird geography.

Thros could be really interesting if they go by the assumption of deep layer of the Dream corrupted by death magic.

I don't think it changed much from Legion, Thros obviously has a connection to it and Ardenwald as well.

[Yhvh]

This twitter user was showing interesting strings... Female Thinhuman? I mean, the male thinhuman we have now for NPCs, but why they would add this specifically?

Pure speculative, but fingers crossed that this means a possible 2nd body option for Kul Tirans in the future.

[EbaumsTipster]

This twitter user was showing interesting strings... Female Thinhuman? I mean, the male thinhuman we have now for NPCs, but why they would add this specifically?

Pure speculative, but fingers crossed that this means a possible 2nd body option for Kul Tirans in the future.

It feels like a coding joke to me, but absolutely could mean they are adding skinny bodies for Kul Tirans. Which would open up a HUGE can of worms as it would be the first race with two body models (and no, Male Orcs are not two bodies).

They could remedy this by letting Forsaken have standard and Human-model bodies.

[Sondrelk]

Thros could absolutely be a patch content but it can't be just Drustvar again. They MIGHT make it so that it's generally the "Vrykul death realm" (where Helheim is a part of) and have that patch deal with Helya and Odyn, who seem to be missing at the moment.

Vrykul stuff fits in with the overall Lich King theme and is missing at the moment.

Full on Vrykul for 9.2 would be pretty cool, honestly. Maybe the return of Odyn, as well as getting some more Val'kyr bot good and bad. Would also tie in pretty well to Sylvanas' plan back in Legion.
And of course I would love to get some Vrykul themed armor and mounts.
Could frame the entire thing around Ragnarok, would be cool to see.

Only thing I am not sure of is wherein the Shadowlands it would take place. Guess it could be Thros, but if Helya is there maybe it should be Helheim instead.

[EbaumsTipster]

Only thing I am not sure of is wherein the Shadowlands it would take place. Guess it could be Thros, but if Helya is there maybe it should be Helheim instead.

I think the term "Thros" has been thrown around so much that it's the name of the general Vrykul Death Realm (with Emerald Dream Drustvar being one area), but they could make it just one corner of the place. Helheim seems too centered around Helya in particular. Alternatively they're both two areas of an entirely different named place.

[therumblings]

Full on Vrykul for 9.2 would be pretty cool, honestly. Maybe the return of Odyn, as well as getting some more Val'kyr bot good and bad. Would also tie in pretty well to Sylvanas' plan back in Legion.
And of course I would love to get some Vrykul themed armor and mounts.
Could frame the entire thing around Ragnarok, would be cool to see.

Only thing I am not sure of is wherein the Shadowlands it would take place. Guess it could be Thros, but if Helya is there maybe it should be Helheim instead.

They kinda already explored the Vrykul death realms with Legion. I guess they could have Thros be the Vrykul/Drust death realm in the Shadowlands before Odyn screwed it up.