9.0 General Discussion

[formerShandalay]

Is that what she's doing? If she wanted to avoid suffering she could have just put on the Helm of Domination & become an untouchable, immortal queen. And that's why I brought up Illidan: Illidan joined up with Sargeras specifically to ultimately destroy Sargeras: Do you see how there are some parallels there?

I put that in quotes because it's how the developers keep referring to it. If it's a weird phrase everyone working on the game is using it's probably important. And like you said she's not a god. She doesn't have the power to break the afterlife system, so why do people keep insinuating she's the one who broke it when that's never been established? In fact she the only reason we know there's a problem.

I'm not even defending Sylvanas. I'm just pointing out your false information & logical errors.

What she is doing has nothing to do with 'fixing' anything. She is trying to destroy the cosmos, because it is self-righteous and uncaring. How ironic. ^^ She is not a god indeed, she is simply the tool that the Jailer needed to finally make his move. For this she has made bargains, accumulated (and continues to seek) power, made promises. She thinks the Jailer shares her sentiment that the 'ladder of lives' has to be dismantled all at once, but we already know what he wants is the same thing Sargeras wanted, the world soul under his control. And as I said, I think once she finds out that he has no intention of keeping his promises, she'll try and turn on him, which will fail, because all of her borrowed power will be gone and she'll just be a Banshee again, with not even Nathanos to care about her anymore.

And I disagree that Illidan was in any way shape or form redeemed in Legion (or his book). He is still just as bad as he was and we were even shown how oblivious he was to his own misdeeds and how he thought people should have praised him for what he did to them. He is an a**hole through and through, with only one factor that made him our ally this time instead of our enemy: he tries to save Azeroth.
The deciding thing, as usual, being: what are you fighting for. Revenge and annihilation or saving something/someone?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What she is doing has nothing to do with 'fixing' anything. She is trying to destroy the cosmos, because it is self-righteous and uncaring. How ironic. ^^ She is not a god indeed, she is simply the tool that the Jailer needed to finally make his move. For this she has made bargains, accumulated (and continues to seek) power, made promises. She thinks the Jailer shares her sentiment that the 'ladder of lives' has to be dismantled all at once, but we already know what he wants is the same thing Sargeras wanted, the world soul under his control. And as I said, I think once she finds out that he has no intention of keeping his promises, she'll try and turn on him, which will fail, because all of her borrowed power will be gone and she'll just be a Banshee again, with not even Nathanos to care about her anymore.

And I disagree that Illidan was in any way shape or form redeemed in Legion (or his book). He is still just as bad as he was and we were even shown how oblivious he was to his own misdeeds and how he thought people should have praised him for what he did to them. He is an a**hole through and through, with only one factor that made him our ally this time instead of our enemy: he tries to save Azeroth.
The deciding thing, as usual, being: what are you fighting for. Revenge and annihilation or saving something/someone?

If Illidan ended the lives of his own people(Nelves) and some demon lords at the same time, he would be even more questionable then he already is. Illidan never wanted to dismantle a machine thats more or less system of how life works. He just wanted to stop the Legion whatever the cost.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I checked out the PTR a bit and noticed that some items (including venthyr/necrolords) made it into the in-game appearance tab, but for some reason amyn others that were datamined didn't. Is this the case in beta as well?

I'm also a bit confused that the raid pieces have the orobos models linked to them.

[arandomuser]

where will the 9.1 raid be do u guys think ( if there will be one)

[Dreen]

where will the 9.1 raid be do u guys think ( if there will be one)

clueless tbh, i mean helya shows up in the maw so im hoping for some helya vs odyn conclusion raid but they might just do a .5 raid again.
Id say by stopping denathrius from funneling anima into the maw, the jailer either has enough power to go for a move on his own or someone else takes over, think its really hard to judge since all 4 covenants end of questlines are still locked which probably open up some more story narratives. The only concluding storyline we basically have is denathrius beeing stopped in the first raid.
.1 has historically been something thats been setup by existing storylines while .2 were rather "out of the air" but connected to further the plot

[Adoxe]

where will the 9.1 raid be do u guys think ( if there will be one)

Kel'thuzad raid in Maldraxxus

[tristannarutofan]

Tbh the current world quest design is beyond broken. People naturally will just do the fastest quests. Replacing it with a scenario to complete might feel more immersive. But if it does take that long it should not be 4 per day

The fix should be that the longer more involved quests should have better rewards., nazjatar was almost right, many of the rares and especially elite rares cant be killed by less than 3 to 5 ppl, less now with all the corruption and gear inflation. However the non rare quests were made even worse. Like the manta ray meat one.. i think if the quests to "kill 8 things and collect 10 things" gave 300 gold instead of 100 or 150 then id do more

- - - Updated - - -

They need to do it from a time perspective not difficulty since all quests in open world can be trivialized if enough ppl are online. Dungeons is were difficulty should amp rewards since u can only have x ppl

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

where will the 9.1 raid be do u guys think ( if there will be one)

Either the Drust or Kel'Thuzad I could see as the next raid focus.

[razorpax]

i want them to do the second raid as a mini raid
9.1 as the two final covenant raids and a few covenant boosts including new soulbinds and easier swapping maybe a new dungeon i hope
9.2 first threat in the maw raid
9.3 final raid we face off against the jailer in a cradle of life like raid

[FlemmMinis]

The 9.1 raid will be naxxramas. Calling it.

[LordyLordy]

My most important personal findings about the beta so far:


Negatives:
1. The end-game experience is quite confusing for a good while shortly after you hit L60. There is so much stuff to do and a number of different systems that you get disoriented a bit with figuring out what to do first or not.
It probably didn't help that the L58-L60 quest / end-game flow is plagued with numerous bugs at the moment on Beta either. (People getting their pick a covenant quest at L58 that causes phasing issues with dailies / main questline entities not spawning or being in the correct phase).

2. The daily quests / new paragon chest system feels rather tedious. There are very few daily quests up at a time, but every daily quest is about at least 2-3x as long as the daily quests we're used to in BfA. This is something I personally don't like... at all. I'm not used to doing a daily quest that tells me to kill 15 mobs, collect 5 of this ... and then once I'm done shows me a new 2nd phase objective of freeing 10 souls... and then once that is done a third objective of asking me to kill a super-high hp named mob. Just to get a single daily quest done. The fact that it then asks you to do 4 of them for one of those covenant paragon dailies just makes it feel very tedious. It feels closer like having to do 12-20 BfA dailies just to get your paragon reward...


Positives:
1. The dungeons are well designed. Fun mechanics etc.
2. Torghast is great fun... perhaps the most fun I've had in the game in a long while.
3. The afterlife theme and stories are really engaging, the leveling experience is great.
4. Even though there are many systems in place and they tend to confuse new L60ies... I do enjoy them as it gives me a strong sense that there is a lot of stuff to do and lots of stuff I can work on to keep improving my character and performance.

I agree with you a lot.

Once you hit 60 you are just slapped with all the systems and currencies, and oh boy there are a lot of currencies... And no information about where you collect certain currencies, or where do you use them. I’m looking at you Anima (source unknown) and Freed Souls (use unknown). At some point there were 4 different kinds of souls. Ush!

The World Quests at lvl 60 are boring drag. 7 different objectives on a quest that rewards 100 rep gets really tedious really fast. I really hope Blizzard breaks the quests down. Or increases the rewards. Right now it feels like unrewarding chore. Especially because the WQs are competing for your time with Torghast.

And Torghast rules! I’ve only run it solo, but the dungeons feel different with different themes, and randomness of the corridors and anima powers really make interesting gameplay. I just don’t want to do the boring grinds, because i just want to run 6 floors of Torghast instead. Lot of people really complain about the 6-lvl structure, but it makes an excellent gameplay when you have 30-40 mins to kill. I love exploring the halls of Torghast.

Leveling is FUN (except Maldraxus is an endless errand boy quest chain). And new zones are gorgeous (again, except Maldraxus). The majority of stories are left for end game though, so levelling really feels like an Act I. You WILL miss most of the story unless you have 3 alts.

[Dracullus]

Imo it will be something like that:

- 9.1 will be raid somewhere in Maw with Sylvanas as final boss
- Kel'Thuzad will either have mini-raid or megadungeon
- 9.2 will have new SL realm(s), Arthas will be reintroduced to story (even as side character for patch), no idea who could be boss; maybe mind controlled Bolvar? he already looks like raid boss
- 9.3 will have some unexplored parts of Maw, last boss will be Jailer (duh) and he will cross to Azeroth in last stage or for whole fight.

[Sarethion]

The daily quests / new paragon chest system feels rather tedious. There are very few daily quests up at a time, but every daily quest is about at least 2-3x as long as the daily quests we're used to in BfA. This is something I personally don't like... at all. I'm not used to doing a daily quest that tells me to kill 15 mobs, collect 5 of this ... and then once I'm done shows me a new 2nd phase objective of freeing 10 souls... and then once that is done a third objective of asking me to kill a super-high hp named mob. Just to get a single daily quest done. The fact that it then asks you to do 4 of them for one of those covenant paragon dailies just makes it feel very tedious. It feels closer like having to do 12-20 BfA dailies just to get your paragon reward...

Honestly - this just sounds really awful.

I've though that the whole idea behind the longer world quests was to make people spend more time doing the actual objectives rather than traveling between them. And that's fine, but from what you've said - they potentially made it worse. I mean, if you still have to do 4 world quests then travel time won't be reduced at all. In fact, if there are less world quests on the map, it might actually take longer, because you likely won't get a nice cluster of world quests around the same area... Smh.

Hopefully once people who regularly do world content see how tedious this is, they will complain enough to make Blizzard nerf it.

[Sondrelk]

Having to do 4 longer world quests definitely seems like a bit of a step back.
I am all for making the process more involved, especially seeing as the current system is just picking the 4 easiest and fastest world quests and making a beeline for them, but I somehow doubt that the fix is to make all the available world quests time-consuming.

That said I do have hope for this iteration of world quests. At least it isnt just going to boil down to always picking the same kill a rare loop by the time flying is unlocked.

[Gaidax]

Having to do 4 longer world quests definitely seems like a bit of a step back.

I hope they will drop it to "2" instead.

[Sondrelk]

I hope they will drop it to "2" instead.

If they are as long as described then I think 2 world quests + a mini-scenario at the end should be the ideal.

[Gaidax]

If they are as long as described then I think 2 world quests + a mini-scenario at the end should be the ideal.

I mean I just did one WQ in Kyrian zone and it was basically:

a) Kill 15 of specific mob and gather shards from other type of mob to create 3 items, use these items to restore some clickables spread around.
b) Kill an elite mob
c) Go to NPC and take slow flight around some pillar - click on 5 items in that pillar.

That's one World Quest.

Now not all the World Quests are like that, for example I did another one in Revendreth where it was the usual stock WQ of kill 12 "boars" and gather 5 "boar" asses and that's it.

[Doffen]

So nice that you can see some of the covenant transmogs on the PTR already. Looking good!

[Jamie081]

The daily quests / new paragon chest system feels rather tedious. There are very few daily quests up at a time, but every daily quest is about at least 2-3x as long as the daily quests we're used to in BfA. This is something I personally don't like... at all. I'm not used to doing a daily quest that tells me to kill 15 mobs, collect 5 of this ... and then once I'm done shows me a new 2nd phase objective of freeing 10 souls... and then once that is done a third objective of asking me to kill a super-high hp named mob. Just to get a single daily quest done. The fact that it then asks you to do 4 of them for one of those covenant paragon dailies just makes it feel very tedious. It feels closer like having to do 12-20 BfA dailies just to get your paragon reward...

The whole concept of stages for quests being locked behind the previous stages sounds exactly like Tanaan Jungle, which are probably the worst type of daily content Blizzard ever did. Fill a bar and then go back to hand the quest in, then you unlock another daily quest that asks you to do the exact same thing but in a different area.

[Dracullus]

Tanaan quest didn't have any stages, it was just "do whatever and fill the bar" and every mob gave like 1%. It was 8.3, but without any events and on smaller area.