Who'd still be fighting who even if horde and alliance made a peace or truce

[Beloren]

As for Night elves: While Night elves will have a reason to hate the undead (well, more specifically Sylvanas), I think their hatred for orcs and repeated deforesting of Ashenvale runs deeper.
As for orcs and Draenei: if you did not notice, most Draenei let go of that hatred, because they know it was instigated by the Legion (which is now pretty much defeated). Current orcs have very little characters old enough to remember the Draenor war (look at Saurfang and his age - he's one of the few who remember) and the Draenei (which are few in numbers already) have very little of those who'd have vengeful intentions, let alone act on them. If you look well, there are Draenei and Broken in the Earthen Ring, which is still predominantly orc-based group (as those have the strongest 'roots' in shamanism). It's probably not likely for them to ever be friends outside of ER but it's unlikely to go into a full war without outside provocation (such as Maraad's bad memories being sparked by the Iron Horde).
---

End of the war might also bring a renewal of human-blood elf cooperation (which was the base of Kirin Tor), as well as more participation from the remaining high elves.
It'd also be interesting what connections could Kul Tirans form through their druids and shamans if some of those join Earthen Ring and Cenarion Circle respectively. There would be tension between KTs and Orcs for historical reasons but not as much towards the Tauren, for example (which were not part of the second war).

Actually that's a good point. Unless they deepen the draeni to be more than just compassionate people.. it's so similar to the night elves.. that whole benevolence vibe. Maybe if they had some Eredar rejoin it coudl liven things up, also make more out of the draenei's unique techno crystal engineering - magi-tech basically.

Then there are broken, who can also be far less forgiving. Could be interesting.

[Mace]

They are quite literally agents and manifestations of opposed cosmic powers. The clash between Light and Void is literally the starting point of the entire setting post-Chronicle. The very touch of the two has them blasted apart and repelled. They're thematically in complete opposition, hope vs. despair, and endgoal of stasis vs no endgoal, contentment vs. rage, one vision vs. many, etc. The Lightforged were for 25k years not only infused by the raw essence of this cosmic power but their leader considered the void ground for execution and destruction and opposed all learning of it. They have not built their entire society around honor and loyalty, they've built it around the Light and the Light has these as its consequence within a narrow field. Though even using the word society shows another problem of the Lightforged namely that being essentially at war 24/7 for millenia and having no civilians in no way informs their characterization. They've no reason to consider the void anything but the ultimate evil and even if they had such a reason, their nature as beings of the Light should render them incapable of acting upon such reasons as both sides are total in their being. Least of all to suborn their issues with the void to their loyalty to a faction on a different planet that they've been a part of for months at best at the time this happens.

Now, you are right that the Lightforged are a complete carfire long before we get to that point. Forgiving Illidan and the demon hunters and forgetting that a demon fried their leader apropo of nothing being one. Everyone being fine with Alleria except Xe'ra being another. A human and an elf who've been around them for 1k years, less than 4% of their existence, being their leadership and being able to upend their entire relationship with the power they're forged by because they're fucking is the peak however. What should be executors of the will of a cosmic power who will make everyone peaceful and prevent conflict by force if need be and accept no deviation from this are instead just draenei with a handful more skin tones. To concur with @Kyphael, The Lightbound are what the Lightforged should have been and error 404 is what the void elves should've been. Neither should've been playable as they turn any future cosmic conflict into a milquetoast 'everyone is fine with everything provided it's in moderation' and nobody minding that there's an entire subset who have the outer gods whispering in their heads to kill their families 24/7 and are basically vessels of cosmic entropy.

Except in the Great Dark, both light and void influence each other, and people are connected to both, so can wield both. The aim ofc being to show that we are more poweful than the forces of light and dark, and they are ultimately ours to dominate and use .. cos in Warcraft, ew are the ultimate.

Which is why void elves can do what they do, and Xe'ra can behave like that nad still be "light based" - Ofc let's not forget Illidan's hypocrisy of "sacrificing everything to defeat theLegion" - except his scars.

[Super Dickmann]

Except in the Great Dark, both light and void influence each other, and people are connected to both, so can wield both. The aim ofc being to show that we are more poweful than the forces of light and dark, and they are ultimately ours to dominate and use .. cos in Warcraft, ew are the ultimate.

Which is why void elves can do what they do, and Xe'ra can behave like that nad still be "light based" - Ofc let's not forget Illidan's hypocrisy of "sacrificing everything to defeat theLegion" - except his scars.

Xe'ra isn't acting counter to the Light. She's in fact the truest manifestation of the Light. That the two clash doesn't mean the two aren't fundamentally opposed, their fundamental opposition is why they clash. Except when it's PCs, then it's suddenly kumbaya time. Both Locus Walker and Xal'atath hint that this clash is part of the cycle of these powers, but while the Void considers the Light a wayward sibling in denial about what it's actually doing, the Light considers the void to be the essence of all that is evil.

The issue isn't us dominating said powers, Shadow Priests f. eg are fine. Because Shadow Priests are infused by the power but aren't composed of it. That's why paladins can all use the Light despite disagreeing or being on different sides. But those infused with the very heart of that power and shaped by it are the purest representation of that power there can be agenda-wise. To have them be essentially indistingushable from their uninfused peers makes the existence of these races pointless and the clout given to these powers bunk since they're so weak they can't even influence mortals who're composed partly of this cosmic matter.

[Mace]

Xe'ra isn't acting counter to the Light. She's in fact the truest manifestation of the Light..

Point is they redefined what the Light was, it wasn't this babsolute source of good, because the Light can now do bad - and last time I checked, forcing someone to your will directly through your power is not a good thing.

Also at the same time we find out you can use the void without being evil or going evil, and thus use those dark power for good.

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The issue isn't us dominating said powers, Shadow Priests f. eg are fine. Because Shadow Priests are infused by the power but aren't composed of it. That's why paladins can all use the Light despite disagreeing or being on different sides. But those infused with the very heart of that power and shaped by it are the purest representation of that power there can be agenda-wise. To have them be essentially indistingushable from their uninfused peers makes the existence of these races pointless and the clout given to these powers bunk since they're so weak they can't even influence mortals who're composed partly of this cosmic matter.

I was talking about the overall perspective of our place in the Warcraft universe and why the "change" in approach was permissible to the point I feel the Light and void are actually recast in 7.3 Legion.

Your explanation here is fine, I actually agree with you and it is a good point to make, just not neccessarily

[Kyphael]

This. If Blizzard really was so keen on giving the Thalassian elf model to the Alliance, then they should have just bitten the bullet and call them High Elves. Have them hail Alleria as their leader and follow her into the Sunwell, where she almost !@#&ed it up big time - then they get their asses kicked out of Silvermoon and all of Quel'thalas. It would have made a lot more sense than the incredibly contrived "exiled BEs" meme - as if BEs weren't 100% OK with adepts to dangerous magics (such as warlocks, shadow priests and even necromancers unholy DKs) already.

But since Blizz decided to go all the way with the "void elf" thing, then all those fancy LF goats make no sense at all in the Alliance. LFDs are very close to the religious zealot archetype, and they should have absolutely freaked out at those blueberry folks. Them not doing anything about it would almost certainly spell mind control if it happened in the Horde. But since it happens Alliance-side, I will just chalk it up to Anduin's charisma

At this point, I'm almost hoping the next faction war happens Alliance-side. The only caveat is, it would ultimately be pointless. While "crazy Garrosh and crazy Sylvanas" can be swept under the rug at the conclusion of the story as a splinter group that is separate from the player base, they can't ultimately exile Void Elves or Lightforged because they cant stand each other due to game play reasons, and they couldn't remain playable because what makes them distinct are Light/Void, something that can't be changed later to justify them co-existing after trying to murder each other. So yeah, we're stuck with boring "risky but will never go crazy and murder everyone" Void Elves and "more-light touched but not religiously-crazed Lightforged Draenei." We'll have to wait for Yrel and her Lightbound to get quasi-interesting Light-anything Draenei.

And Void Elves will just continue to exist in their pitiful incarnation to appease the Horde players who didn't even want Thalassian elves shared across faction to begin with because of some antiquated, idealistic stance that it blurs faction lines even though they now have night elves and both have had Pandaren for years.

[Beloren]

Definitely the best criticism regarding the lack of class identity in WoW in 2019. Lightforged is a stupid idea to begin with (Lightbound would be the more logical concept) considering Velen has always been a walking embodiment of Draenei's affinity and proximity to The Light. Void Elves was terrible in concept and execution, and only use the void for portal hopping at their leisure with no mental repercussions to speak of which is what being a Void Elf is supposed to be to begin with. They're just High Elves with emo haircuts or Shadow Priests blood elves in their in-game representation.

I think that may be true only if you consider them a brand new full race. As an allied race, they don't have to have set distinction or thing.. they are just a variation on the high elf so you can have a fancier model that has a little interesting twist or variation of the normal theme.. sometimes not even that, sometimes just a cosmetic option or a different story for a different group expanding the original core race.

[scubi666stacy]

The Ren'dorei will continue to fight against the Blood Elves as one of their goals is to set the Blood Elves on the path of redemption and bring Silvermoon back into the fold. The High Elves would obviously help them in their struggle, especially when you consider the bond between Alleria and Vereesa. However, the true objective of the Ren'dorei will not be a political one. They will play an important role when the Void Lords make their move, so I think that their priority would still be the fight against the Void, and would make a truce with the Blood Elves if need be.


Their conflict can end in a peaceful way, it depends if Theron and Rommath had a change of heart and are no longer bigots.

IDK I found them to be rather soft. While allowing Alleria to leave was possibly a diplomatic move, I would have executed Umbric and each and every one of his ilk on the spot if would be the tyrant people paint Lor'themar to be. They have been granted mercy to live on. And if I would writing the story, this would be a big mistake. The void would use every single one of them as pawn, even Alleria.

Well' let's see. I don't think that Blizzard has the guts to write something like that. Still, exile was an act of mercy.

[Varodoc]

IDK I found them to be rather soft. While allowing Alleria to leave was possibly a diplomatic move, I would have executed Umbric and each and every one of his ilk on the spot if would be the tyrant people paint Lor'themar to be. They have been granted mercy to live on. And if I would writing the story, this would be a big mistake. The void would use every single one of them as pawn, even Alleria.

Well' let's see. I don't think that Blizzard has the guts to write something like that. Still, exile was an act of mercy.

Exile would be an act of mercy if half of Quel'thalas wasn't infested with feral undead. The Void can use everyone as pawns, no one is immune to the whispers. That is exactly why Umbric wanted to delve into the Void. He realized that every mortal was vulnerable to the whispers, so he wanted to find a way to resist it and share that knowledge with his people. Was he reckless? Yes, he was, he himself admits it after Alleria saved him. Was Rommath short-sighted? Without a doubt. If Umbric was allowed to conduct his research in peace (and that was possible, just keep him away from the Sunwell Plateau), the results of his studies could have helped Quel'thalas a lot. Now they shall help the Alliance. Karma.

It's not that Theron is painted as tyrant. He actually is a tyrant. Remember those two priests who were brainwashed for speaking out against him?

[Grazrug]

The Ren'dorei will continue to fight against the Blood Elves as one of their goals is to set the Blood Elves on the path of redemption and bring Silvermoon back into the fold. The High Elves would obviously help them in their struggle, especially when you consider the bond between Alleria and Vereesa. However, the true objective of the Ren'dorei will not be a political one. They will play an important role when the Void Lords make their move, so I think that their priority would still be the fight against the Void, and would make a truce with the Blood Elves if need be.


Their conflict can end in a peaceful way, it depends if Theron and Rommath had a change of heart and are no longer bigots.

Lmao there is no redemption needed. YOU are the void addicts here. The Sin'dorei owe you nothing, even less entrance into Silvermoon. You are alliance now, you made your choce. Stay in the human cities like your High Elf friends did since Vanilla.

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Exile would be an act of mercy if half of Quel'thalas wasn't infested with feral undead. The Void can use everyone as pawns, no one is immune to the whispers. That is exactly why Umbric wanted to delve into the Void. He realized that every mortal was vulnerable to the whispers, so he wanted to find a way to resist it and share that knowledge with his people. Was he reckless? Yes, he was, he himself admits it after Alleria saved him. Was Rommath short-sighted? Without a doubt. If Umbric was allowed to conduct his research in peace (and that was possible, just keep him away from the Sunwell Plateau), the results of his studies could have helped Quel'thalas a lot. Now they shall help the Alliance. Karma.

It's not that Theron is painted as tyrant. He actually is a tyrant. Remember those two priests who were brainwashed for speaking out against him?

I changed my mind. Void elf fans are much worse than High Elf fans.

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IDK I found them to be rather soft. While allowing Alleria to leave was possibly a diplomatic move, I would have executed Umbric and each and every one of his ilk on the spot if would be the tyrant people paint Lor'themar to be. They have been granted mercy to live on. And if I would writing the story, this would be a big mistake. The void would use every single one of them as pawn, even Alleria.

Well' let's see. I don't think that Blizzard has the guts to write something like that. Still, exile was an act of mercy.

He isn't a tyrant. Void and High elf fans are just angry Silvermoon ain't part of the Alliance anymore. They bent over to and for their human masters full time.

[Soon-TM]

I don't think that Blizzard has the guts to write something like that.

Blizzard doesn't. With Afrasiabi calling the shots, no Alliance race will ever be depicted as doing shady !@#&, not even VEs.

So far, they've been infusing dinosaur eggs with purple koolaid LOL, reanimating fossil bones, which doesn't even count as necromancy, and (the only interesting part) deploying those single-usage void portals to banish people into oblivion. Even then, the story stops dead since there is no followup, no consequences, no nothing.

Hell, I'm already missing Illidan. If you want an "end justifies the means" type, he's just your guy.

[Grazrug]

Can't wait for the inevitable voidwell plot to get another "Horde is bad and should feel bad." storyline. Probally painting Alleria and Umbric as saviors decpite using the most corrupting and evil source of power that exists for their benefits.

[Varodoc]

Blizzard doesn't. With Afrasiabi calling the shots, no Alliance race will ever be depicted as doing shady !@#&, not even VEs.

So far, they've been infusing dinosaur eggs with purple koolaid LOL, reanimating fossil bones, which doesn't even count as necromancy, and (the only interesting part) deploying those single-usage void portals to banish people into oblivion. Even then, the story stops dead since there is no followup, no consequences, no nothing.

Hell, I'm already missing Illidan. If you want an "end justifies the means" type, he's just your guy.

Those actions were done under Alleria's command. If Alleria were the High Queen of the Alliance, people would be pissed off. But for the moment, she is a rather low-randing leader of the Alliance. That's why more of her unsavory methods are usually ignored. She does not draw a lot of attention to herself. This is similar to Sylvanas back in Classic, who committed disgusting experiments in the shadows, and managed to get away with them because she was not a high-priority target (only during the Battle of the Undercity would those experiments resurface).

[Rozz]

I honestly want to see a crack in the relationship between the NEs and Tauren.

At the moment the Tauren--through Baine's leadership--are politically closer to humans than orcs, trolls, or nightelves. Meanwhile nightelves are closest to human-worgen, since apparently all the other bonds they thought they had didn't matter when they needed them most. While I put fault on the writers for the lack of character reaction to Teldrassil, it would be interesting if they actually made consequences for it.

One of those could be a wounded bond between the Tauren and NEs, because Baine clearly does not care if that falls through or not. Hamuul is better at politics at this point and has been doing all the diplomacy for him.

[Feanoro]

I honestly want to see a crack in the relationship between the NEs and Tauren.

At the moment the Tauren--through Baine's leadership--are politically closer to humans than orcs, trolls, or nightelves. Meanwhile nightelves are closest to human-worgen, since apparently all the other bonds they thought they had didn't matter when they needed them most. While I put fault on the writers for the lack of character reaction to Teldrassil, it would be interesting if they actually made consequences for it.

One of those could be a wounded bond between the Tauren and NEs, because Baine clearly does not care if that falls through or not. Hamuul is better at politics at this point and has been doing all the diplomacy for him.

I'm sure the usual suspects of Horde posters will quickly be along to lecture you on how there is no bond between them, druids don't matter, nothing to see here, move along. Also Taurajo was the most heinous act in all of Warcraft history, pay no attention to the Road of Glory and so on.

[Rozz]

I'm sure the usual suspects of Horde posters will quickly be along to lecture you on how there is no bond between them, druids don't matter, nothing to see here, move along. Also Taurajo was the most heinous act in all of Warcraft history, pay no attention to the Road of Glory and so on.

They might say the same thing as the writers, because I'm sure NE fans feel rather abandoned this expansion.

Although I personally have fatigue from NE ruins and zones, I would like to interact with more of their characters. NEs were instrument in the majority of Azeroth's history, and their characters have proven to be dynamic and interesting. Malfurion and Tyrande just aren't very engaging characters due to their status in the story. I wish we could see more of Jarod, the Wardens, or even Shandris. Especially Shandris, I would like to know more about her and see her interact with us.

[Feanoro]

They might say the same thing as the writers, because I'm sure NE fans feel rather abandoned this expansion.

Nonsense, why we got murdered civilians, Darkshore joined Ashenvale in being ruined, Teldrassil burned and a shitty warfront is revenge. If that's attention, no fucking thank you.

Although I personally have fatigue from NE ruins and zones, I would like to interact with more of their characters. NEs were instrument in the majority of Azeroth's history, and their characters have proven to be dynamic and interesting.

Easy to copypasta those ruins rather than create new assets, but it does fit the story.

Malfurion and Tyrande just aren't very engaging characters due to their status in the story.

Because the writers don't care to write them worth a damn. "No night elf could" take on four little delivery boys, after all.

I wish we could see more of Jarod, the Wardens, or even Shandris. Especially Shandris, I would like to know more about her and see her interact with us.

You can get some interaction in the Alliance war campaign, and you find out where the human potential memes come from.

[Rozz]

You can get some interaction in the Alliance war campaign, and you find out where the human potential memes come from.

Yeah but I want a little more than that. I don't particularly like most of the campaign stories in the first place. Some of the character interactions are neat, but the lore and game play aren't fulfilling. I feel like it'd feel better to play through if you were able to go through them all together.

[Mace]

Yeah but I want a little more than that. I don't particularly like most of the campaign stories in the first place. Some of the character interactions are neat, but the lore and game play aren't fulfilling. I feel like it'd feel better to play through if you were able to go through them all together.

I think you have surmarised how I felt with most of the BFA questing experience. Unfulfilling. Legion while not satisfying held my interest a lot more, and the focused story arc play for new players like the Farondis and the Nightborne I enjoyed finding out more, meeting some well done established characters, in a way I just found more engaging than any in BFA.

Unfulfilling is a good word to describe it.