Remember Lady Liadrin?

[Exeris]

And it was considered a perfectly legit military tactic.

By people that were pretty f'ed in the head.

[Theoris]

The Horde also kills Ambassador Gaines in one of those quests (you're welcome, by the way).

FYI, it's random whether it's Liadrin or that orc lady with the ear-shredding voice that gives you the "kill the Mistweaver" quest.

[Asrialol]

Murdering an enemy healer, while cruel, may be necessary in times of war. My main problem with Liadrin in BFA is that she accepts Sylvanas as her leader, and is willing to send her Paladins into war against the Night Elves FOR NO REASON but to snuff out life and hope. All in the name of an undead maniac who hates anything that is good and pure.

I have absolutely no idea how Blizzard ever thought this kind of "faction conflict" would make any sense for classes like Paladin or Druid (and to a lesser extend: Shaman) on the Horde side...but apparently that was just not important enough as the entre War of Thorns thing was never meant to be more than a marketing hype to sell the box to Horde fanboys and then never follow it up with anything after that.

Blood Elves never were a part of the Horde to begin with. And Blood Knights, while a cool concept, were removed at the end of TBC in favour of standard Paladins of the Light - which do not befit Blood Elves at all. So Liadrin has always been a great misfit in any and all regards for me. But now, as a Paladin of the Holy Light fighting under the command of a rotting corpse....no, that is as low as it can get.

Sylvanas isn't mad or evil at all. Everything happening / that has happened in BFA is to make sure we're strong enough for N'zoth and the shadowlands.

[Cizr]

This "peaceful" healer attacks you when you come near.

Mistweaver Nian shot first.

[Soon-TM]

By people that were pretty f'ed in the head.

One could arguably say that all wars are planned, started and carried on by people !@#$ed in the head, so I don't see your point.

[Monster Hunter]

If neither there was nor there is a punishment enforced by the supposed "good guys", then it becomes effectively acceptable, end of story - as disgusting and depressing it can be.

But there was a punishment, you got excommunicated, this had back then pritty nasty ramifactions geo politically. Now whilst in those times protection wasn't as extensive dosnt mean there wernt rules in war and ramifications for breaking them.

- - - Updated - - -

Can she channel light?
Yes.
She is spiritualy pure. Anyone who disagrees is a heretic.

Any one can channel the light as long as they believe they are right. Which imo is more a mark on the user than the light.

Example the scarlet crusade

- - - Updated - - -

And it was considered a perfectly legit military tactic.

It has not been a perfectly legitimate tactic since 1864 with signing of the Geneva convention. It was a war crime and it was a big deal at the time during ww2 that medical personnel were being targeted by the Waffen-SS, but still the incorporation of the red Cross on medics helmets in 44 did see a reduction in medical personnel being shot due to them being more clearly marked showing that in general the axis forces did try to avoid firing on medical personnel.

On the allies only the Canadians god a bad reputation for killing medical staff, to which there argument was that German medics carried pistols thus making them no longer non-combatants. But they did get scorn for it from both there allies and the Germans.

Infracted.

[Mehrunes]

I'm terribly sorry you don't like the "It's ok when Alliance does it" bullshit being used against the Horde. Also, I'm terribly sorry that you can't understand anything that's not literal.

I wasn't replying to anything remotely resembling "It's ok when Alliance does it". I was replying to your sad, derailing straw-man you made to add your two cents to an anti-Horde post just because it was anti-Horde without paying a shred of attention to how wrong it was on every single count.

[Combatbutler]

Any one can channel the light as long as they believe they are right. Which imo is more a mark on the user than the light.

Example the scarlet crusade

Well the light is in its very nature tyrannical, those who truly follow it should by all means be zealous bigots.

[rogueMatthias]

Murdering an enemy healer, while cruel, may be necessary in times of war. My main problem with Liadrin in BFA is that she accepts Sylvanas as her leader, and is willing to send her Paladins into war against the Night Elves FOR NO REASON but to snuff out life and hope. All in the name of an undead maniac who hates anything that is good and pure..

That's a repeating issue with Garona and Voss too now. In their case they even gave them dialogue that as good as says "I know this flys against my character lore, but the storytelling means I have to be here, so Hi"

[Feanoro]

I wasn't replying to anything remotely resembling "It's ok when Alliance does it". I was replying to your sad, derailing straw-man you made to add your two cents to an anti-Horde post just because it was anti-Horde without paying a shred of attention to how wrong it was on every single count.

Yes, you're right.

It's ok when Horde does it, don't you know?

In no way resembles "It's ok when Alliance does it." I mean, there's the word Horde and it doesn't match at all because you say so. Keep repeating "straw man", too, it's hilarious how you try to position yourself as some impartial arbiter when you couldn't defend them harder if you were paid to do so.

[Wangming]

World Of Warcraft mentality of nations is pre WW2 mostly medieval.

Civilians are as a legit legit target during that time. 21st century morals that we thankfully live by have no place in wow. Civilians in that era (which wow is based on) civilians are just enemies that were too slow to pick up a weapon.

Morals in WoW change depending on Saurfang's mood. A more set in stone moral compass would be: what is the player okay with doing. If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, you might not want to force them to do it.

[Feanoro]

Morals in WoW change depending on Saurfang's mood. A more set in stone moral compass would be: what is the player okay with doing. If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, you might not want to force them to do it.

I'd put it "Morals in WoW depend on the writers mood" or maybe something about what they had for breakfast.

[Combatbutler]

Morals in WoW change depending on Saurfang's mood. A more set in stone moral compass would be: what is the player okay with doing. If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, you might not want to force them to do it.

It is a superficial game, as such morals are rather pointless I for example would torch an orphanage for transmog.

[Kallisto]

Morals in WoW change depending on Saurfang's mood. A more set in stone moral compass would be: what is the player okay with doing. If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, you might not want to force them to do it.

Honestly I'm not sure player morals are ok too. One moment we're ok slaughtering entire towns and villages of random race A, B or C that have a structure and culture because reasons. The next we're supposed to be not ok with it because it's the wrong race (Aka playable one.)

I mean we as a player likely killed more members of certain cultures for the loot and XP than Sylvanas did burning Teldrassil.

[cparle87]

If Liadrin were still her TBC incarnation obsessed with one-upping paladins to show they're the true masters of the Light this conflict would make leagues more sense, and she'd also be more interesting. But as those Blood Knights went the way of the dodo and she's essentially just a more boring version of Turalyon with tits, I'm hard-pressed to understand why him being a draeneiaboo is wrong but her being one is good.

If I was to make a steelman I'd say she's giving him ashit for tolerating void elves. If so, it'd be cooler if she insulted his wife but that might risk giving her a discernable character trait besides being race-swapped human paladin #81915.

Either the void elf thing or she considers them not 'true Light' because she knows about the AU Lightbound and fears the AotL going full on light zealots too.

[Feanoro]

It is a superficial game, as such morals are rather pointless I for example would torch an orphanage for transmog.

With how subtle the writing is, there's no Sylvanas loyalist quest like this?

[Wangming]

It is a superficial game, as such morals are rather pointless I for example would torch an orphanage for transmog.

After dungeon keeper? So would I. But I don't depend on millions of people continuing to play the game. A wide range of audience has to be satisfied.

Honestly I'm not sure player morals are ok too. One moment we're ok slaughtering entire towns and villages of random race A, B or C that have a structure and culture because reasons. The next we're supposed to be not ok with it because it's the wrong race (Aka playable one.)

I mean we as a player likely killed more members of certain cultures for the loot and XP than Sylvanas did burning Teldrassil.

Also true. It is up to each player to decide if they are okay with it. Personally my favorite Cataclysm zone is Silverpine, where we bring back a traitor to life and kidnap a girl to force his father to stop his attacks and move back to an area we carpet bombed with chemical weapons. It's just a game. But not everyone thinks like me. And that is totally okay.

[Kallisto]

Oh you mean like how Slyvanas decided to burn down Teldrassil instead of capturing it like she originally planned because of the tantrum she threw over some random Nelf talking shit? Literally, how is their situation different? Both committed genocide and destroyed the homeland(s) of elves.

Sylvanas went to war because she thought that Anduin wouldn't have the stones to fight back, don't try to flip the situation. With Anduin ruling, there was no better time for peace between the alliance and the horde and he's STILL actively trying to achieve it. Trying to say Anduin's alliance is a threat to anyone is entirely delusional.

Except she didn't just have a tantrum. Seriously are you one of those idiots who go "Not in game don't count." because too afraid to read?

The same alliance under Anduin that

A) Attacked the ruler of the Horde during the legion invasion. (Genn and Rogers not punished.)
B) That basically had the pretender to Sylvanas throne attempt a coup during the meet up. (Sylvanas was able to use this to spin alliance attempt at the warchief again)
C) Attacked civilian Goblin miners for just mining. (Shaw not punished)

That's where "You call for peace when it suits you." comes from. At best Anduin is powerless over his subordinates so his calls for peace mean nothing. At worst he's the one calling for these incidents meaning his call for peace is nothing more than politics trying to look like the good guy.

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining the above happened. My issue with the above is that somehow either Blizzard forget about it or hand waive it away as non issues. When two of them were essentially attacks on the leader of a world power. I know for some strange reason the mods don't like apt comparisons with the real world (which seriously is bad. We need to compare to real world to understand the situations.). But if a rogue general or CIA leader was knowingly going after Russian leadership these ways it would be considered either full on acts of war or Casus belli for war.

[Amaterasu65]

Morals in WoW change depending on Saurfang's mood. A more set in stone moral compass would be: what is the player okay with doing. If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, you might not want to force them to do it.

If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, they should just avoid rolling Horde. It's bound to happen.

[Wangming]

If players aren't comfortable with doing stuff that would be a war crime in their country, they should just avoid rolling Horde. It's bound to happen.

True. And Blizz should just stop pretending they are not the evil faction.