Mythic+ mentality ruined classic dungeons

[Frozenbro]

Isn’t content that’s played still better than invalidated content with each patch?

There’s nothing wrong with you outgearing and passing certain content; but there is a problem with it when Blizz forces everyone forward every patch and basically erases the previous content

It removes the ladder climb of beat a to unlock b, b to c, etc

It depends on your target audience, nowadays blizz tries to appeal to the largest part of the community aka the casuals, is this a bad thing? maybe it is, maybe it isn't, depends on your point of view, but the point is the past raiding system affected this part of the playerbase in a negative way, therefore blizz opted for this "patches seasons" where casuals can gear up and experience current content, the people screaming for the past raiding system are a vocal minority of players that pretend to be hardcore cause they raided in vanilla yet they werent at all otherwise they would've completed all of it, when most of them didnt even step foot on naxx, its actually pitiful.

[Estravolt]

Isn’t content that’s played still better than invalidated content with each patch?

There’s nothing wrong with you outgearing and passing certain content; but there is a problem with it when Blizz forces everyone forward every patch and basically erases the previous content

It removes the ladder climb of beat a to unlock b, b to c, etc

Content played, yes. Guilds broken because the other option is faster and easier, no

[justandulas]

Content played, yes. Guilds broken because the other option is faster and easier, no

guilds come, and guilds go. Mythic guilds get poached just as much, if not MORE in 2019, than TBC raiding guilds simply because of server/name xfers, cross realm, etc.

Back then, even if you left your guild; you still had to awkwardly stay on the same server most likely and it discouraged that behavior. But some people will always leave for greener pastures, it still happens today.

As a former Mythic MT; i got WEEKLY whispers from people trying to poach me, and with logs and how easily data is gathered from sites like wclogs... it's easier than ever to poach and be poached.

Fact is, this one size fits all raid approach doesn't appeal to many as i've seen more raiding guilds die in BFA than i have in ALL of my 15 years of wow combined.

[Frozenbro]

Fact is, this one size fits all raid approach doesn't appeal to many as i've seen more raiding guilds die in BFA than i have in ALL of my 15 years of wow combined.

You experience =/= facts, avoid using that expression cause it serves no purpose, your experience = sample size of 1 person, claiming this as a fact is in fact wrong.

[Uurdz]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

I find none of this on my server. (Clue: it’s not one of the mega-servers)

[Jastall]

Do you know how M+ works?

Do you? 35-40 minutes for a dungeon is hardly what I'd call a fast clear. Unless you grossly outgear the place, in which case you should move on to higher keys, M+ is about coordination and efficient (not hasty) pulling, not rushing towards the end and AoEing down everything.

[Frozenbro]

not rushing towards the end and AoEing down everything.

Inb4 some1 quotes this and says he aoes everything down in a m+10 omegalul, i can see this coming.

[mojusk]

People just blow things out of propotions and whine about a near non existing problem.
All the groups ive been in, we just looked for 3 dps 1 heal 1tank. Class didnt matter.

[rohoz]

People played like this in vanilla too, people just got nostalgic with time and forgot about it and/or streamers never talked about it because "Muh everything was better".

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It very much was a thing in vanilla.

No matter how much people may try to push the narrative that vanilla players didn't know what they were doing, it'll never be true. It was only true in early levels. You may notice that the vast majority of old "My time in vanilla" stories are with the lower level dungeons, or grouped with friends they got in those lower level dungeons who didn't mind you playing a subpar spec. Because at higher levels people got their shit together and pugs wanted good classes.

2h tanking? rofl, no. You can even track down the youtube/community posts wrt "oh wow i can tank with 100% dps gear" at all points in the game. Even "offtank" specs were half prot and had them weaponswapping mid fight.

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I didn’t give the why, just the reality of the situation.

Yes, gear is much more exclusive in vanilla and it makes the gear have infinitely more meaning

The biggest problem to me with retail is it devolved into play the patch, not the expac.

Imagine stepping into tbc the week your guild starts illidan and being ready the next week by skipping 90% of the content. That’s retail. There’s no real progression ladder because each patch devalues the previous content and it makes the gear meaningless. Combined with m+, where you farm the same gear season after season; and retail is more diablo 3 than Everquest

Or that the world evolves at a current pace and just because you started a year late doesn't mean that the world is stuck in some sort of year old temporal vortex where you have to progress to catch up with the story.

or whatever

[Alex86el]

yes there's plenty of those.
and it is sad.

but you can create your own groups.
yes, half the people you will whisper will be like "do you have x class combo?" or "is it spam this over and over?".
but the other half will play the game normally, and if they are not bad players or rude, or the "fast fast gogogo faster!" type
you add them to your friends list for the future.

[PedroloGeo]

If you are a good player and get invited to groups anyway, why are you posting?
If you are a bad player and getting refused, why should others play with you if they want a smooth experience?

[Eveningforest]

It would be interesting to know which servers these are and if some of it is perhaps regional. I play on 2 popular US server and haven't seen any of this.
As someone said previously, 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps is what I see forming all the time.

[Estravolt]

yes there's plenty of those.
and it is sad.

but you can create your own groups.
yes, half the people you will whisper will be like "do you have x class combo?" or "is it spam this over and over?".
but the other half will play the game normally, and if they are not bad players or rude, or the "fast fast gogogo faster!" type
you add them to your friends list for the future.

Why is it sad tho?

Because someone doesn't like to play the game the same way as you do?

[Maudib]

Why are some people so stuck with "people experiencing it THE RIGHT WAY"? Isn't vanilla famous for "I play the way I want with the build I want" ? Why would it mean, if they picked up fastest route, that they are not mature or disciplined? They might as well be very mature and very disciplined, because aoe grind for hours is not extremely fun for most, therefore requires discipline. Also it is smart way, because of all the drops, it's quite good source of income while overcoming competition and world dangers.

" overcoming competition and world dangers " You mean circumventing competition and world dangers.

I don't have a problem with people doing it any way. There is no "right way"... I'm pointing out that THIS way is detrimental to the game overall... and to the experience that Classic initially provided 14 years ago. When a group of people do something like this, it creates such an unfair advantage that it forces many others to do the same.

Not that I would recommend any changes... it is what it is. For me, I just don't focus on any of the "I win the game" crap that the modern game seems to focus on.

Instead I level my alts, get into the quests, stories, the feeling of achievement and the friendship within guild and parties. I'm having a blast!

[erifwodahs]

" overcoming competition and world dangers " You mean circumventing competition and world dangers.

I don't have a problem with people doing it any way. There is no "right way"... I'm pointing out that THIS way is detrimental to the game overall... and to the experience that Classic initially provided 14 years ago. When a group of people do something like this, it creates such an unfair advantage that it forces many others to do the same.

Not that I would recommend any changes... it is what it is. For me, I just don't focus on any of the "I win the game" crap that the modern game seems to focus on.

Instead I level my alts, get into the quests, stories, the feeling of achievement and the friendship within guild and parties. I'm having a blast!

It does not create unfair advantage mate. People are using something what was in game 15 years ago. Unfair advantage would be if they used something not accessible to other players otherwise. Actually it compliments vanilla as "anyone can be anything". Asmongold tanked Onyxia with dual wielding, insane dps tank, doing tons of 800s and execute phase as high as 3k hits. DPS could go mental on that boss because of that. In retail, there is no one who could tank max difficulty boss in dps settings. Unfair advantage? No. Same as doing split raids of 20 people instead of 40, so you get more loot. It is way more beneficial, so is everyone forced to do so?

[Maudib]

It does not create unfair advantage mate. People are using something what was in game 15 years ago. Unfair advantage would be if they used something not accessible to other players otherwise. Actually it compliments vanilla as "anyone can be anything". Asmongold tanked Onyxia with dual wielding, insane dps tank, doing tons of 800s and execute phase as high as 3k hits. DPS could go mental on that boss because of that. In retail, there is no one who could tank max difficulty boss in dps settings. Unfair advantage? No. Same as doing split raids of 20 people instead of 40, so you get more loot. It is way more beneficial, so is everyone forced to do so?

You are right.. it is not an unfair advantage if everyone can do it. But not everyone can do it. Seen may hunter cleave groups being formed? That makes it unfair to some.

But beyond "unfair advantage" is the effect this practice has on the game as a whole. It is detrimental to the longevity of the game. It affects the economy by reducing the need for craftables and infusing more of the rare BoEs into it, it reduces PvP, and it alienates certain classes/specs. It has a very clear effect on a server.

[Soimu]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

just ignore those tards and make your own group, that's what i do and is working perfectly or play on a RP server :P.
nowadays is even worse thanks to the streamers which are spreading the disease even more.

[erifwodahs]

You are right.. it is not an unfair advantage if everyone can do it. But not everyone can do it. Seen may hunter cleave groups being formed? That makes it unfair to some.

But beyond "unfair advantage" is the effect this practice has on the game as a whole. It is detrimental to the longevity of the game. It affects the economy by reducing the need for craftables and infusing more of the rare BoEs into it, it reduces PvP, and it alienates certain classes/specs. It has a very clear effect on a server.

But this is unfortunate side effect of unbalance of classic. Classic is the same game, but we are different. Gamers as a whole are now asking for balance, would that be balance of weapon damage, balance of certain abilities, balance of factions and so on through out the gaming industry. I believe the problem comes in when gamers who wanted to experience that old vanilla game are coming back, they are smacked in the face by current gamers. People who played on PS are used to it, people who are playing retail are used to it, people who are playing online games in general are all used to it. Just people who expected that wild game of 2004 are affected by it.
You can't ask advanced driver to be driving like a pleb just for the sake of that. If he knows how to get the most out of his motor, it would be dumb not to do so. "It's only a game which you play for fun" argument comes to my mind. Being ahead of the curve is fun for a lot and that can be seen.

[Thunderball]

There's no M+ mentality. There are just some people who saw that you can grind XP in dungeons on Method stream, and now they're trying that. There's nothing in common with running dungeons for loot and trying to grind XP, shouldnt affect you in any way, literally. This is based off a lot of bugs and features of the later expansions that made it do Classic. Once it's all fixed it will go away.

[erifwodahs]

This is going to sound elitist and condescending, but could it be that gamers in 2004 were just better gamers, players, and people?

It isn’t retail, it’s this entire generation of gamers who have no respect, wanna zoom through everything, and generally are quick to be rude and insult.

The cupcake generation of millennials show their absolute worst side in gaming

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The content can be easier, but more unforgiving. Gearing up is absolutely harder in classic than retail since retail showers you in epics

Why would you assume so? Generalize everything so much. Being better gamers/players? Well, that is hard to measure, given same tools and the problem, they would quite likely perform the same. It's not like human brain evolved. I was back there in a day, it was the same me, just total noob. So were many othres. If you compare ourselves against us in 2004, no way we were better gamers/palyers, because exp. Were we better people? amm, well, not in my exp. You had shitheads in bgs shouting toxic stuff out back then, you really have em now, same with dungeons/pugs.
But generalize and describe all new gamers... well, does not show your "good person" either mate. Quite opposite. Don't be so bitter. I am sure as a kid you never wanted to become one of those grumpy old people.