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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    That's how I feel, but tbh this spell and what I can make out of it, it realy doesn't appeal me,I mean 20 seems way to long to realy have any sort of control in the sense of: I need winter asap etc when you just got past winter for example.

    It just doesn't seem fun imo, but what ever I have to wait and see how it turns out.


    ps: I hope it doesn't end up being so strong, so it will become a nobrainer or what ever.
    These 2 things are going to be really problematic with this aura : no way they can tune it properly during alpha or beta and when they realise the various ways it's gonna interact and taken advantage of they are going to end up doing some abrupt tuning but it will be too late as few will be already committed to a covenant... Other problem is the amount of holy power needed to switch between seasons as at the moment is too long to organise it as an oh shit situation but too short to keep someone's gameplay interesting and not completely degenerate
    One has to agree though that it gives the class a good unique niche that is somehow manageable so I guess we would need to be putting some serious feedback about it from testing so it doesn't go out of hand on live

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Good ol Stroggylos View Post
    These 2 things are going to be really problematic with this aura : no way they can tune it properly during alpha or beta and when they realise the various ways it's gonna interact and taken advantage of they are going to end up doing some abrupt tuning but it will be too late as few will be already committed to a covenant... Other problem is the amount of holy power needed to switch between seasons as at the moment is too long to organise it as an oh shit situation but too short to keep someone's gameplay interesting and not completely degenerate
    One has to agree though that it gives the class a good unique niche that is somehow manageable so I guess we would need to be putting some serious feedback about it from testing so it doesn't go out of hand on live
    I feel like there is no middle ground with this.
    The problem is exactly like you said, you want to switch fast, but not to fast because you want to make maximum use out of said seperate seasons. Which already destroys the fun imo. It will not work if you want to stay in longer since you are missing out on a rotational spell which seems weird and a dps loss.

    Without becoming to whiny about it, I want to see how it will work with the rotation. It seems as of right now, without getting into vague rotations where you are holding back abillities and such, seems like a activate and forget talent, which is fine, micro managing is fine when there is some form of control, but not this.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2020-04-27 at 04:37 PM.

  3. #383
    PALADIN GENERAL ( THESE ARE IDEAS/THOUGHTS, NOT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED )

    ========RAID WIDE/GROUP UTILITY==========
    -brez(if any1 should have it its a paladin, remember warcraft 3 paladin?)
    -empowereded aura (raid/grp wide cd) - empowers ur active aura for X seconds
    -buffs (see greater blessings) OR -mark of the crusader/crusaders mark - (baseline,passive - debuff similar to what monk/dh have, physical and/or magic damage taken increased by 2-3% OR increased crit chance on target by 2-3% for all group)
    =====greater blessings(1 for all specs and 1 unique per spec)========
    -kings(for all specs) - X% primary stats ???
    -might(ret specific) - increased attack power, OR % of secondary stat OR % of highest secondary stat, OR certain stat(no procs please)
    -salvation(prot or ret specific) - reduce threat generated( if threat is more of a thing )
    -sanctuary(prot specific) - less damage taken by X OR redirect X damage to tank OR ???
    -light(holy specific - increased healing taken by X.
    -wisdom(holy specific - mana regen by X)


    RETRIBUTION SPECIFIC ( THESE ARE IDEAS/THOUGHTS, NOT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED )

    CURRENT TALENTS:
    ========row 15===================
    -zeal - meh
    -righteous verdict - change it from only templar verdict to templar verdict and divine storm like the legendary cloak from legion.
    -execution sentence - needs to hit much harder than templar verdict, the % increased damage is only holy and 20% is too low. make it higher % and reduce duration. would prefer for it to be very potent but have a 1min cd or even cost 5HP.
    ========row 25===================
    -fires of justice - ok in its form.
    -blade of wrath - ok, fresh flavour ideas: (procs generate +1 HP OR always crit OR burn target for X% of dmg for 6secs)(numbers need testing)
    -empyrean power - looks ok(needs more testing)
    ========row 30===================
    -fist of justice - also increases range on hammer of justice by 10yrds (keep in mind its magic=dispelable)
    -repentance - instant cast,incap for 6-7sec players, 1min on npc, 1min cd (cast on rep is horrible for melee,esp dps and esp in pvp(ret has pretty low/weak cc compared to everyone else, so maybe baseline)
    -blinding light - ok in its form, has its niche.
    ========row 35===================
    -unbreakable spirit - (40-50% reduction, Shield of Vengeance def needs to be 1-1.5min cd and divine shield def needs 3min max considering how other classes/specs are looking)
    -cavalier - divine steed has 2 charges AND something more for mobility(either increased duration 1-2sec OR more speed OR cant be slowed/rooted on horse OR further decrease on cd, keep in mind that crusader heart is now an aura so its not gonna give you the bonus anymore most of the time)
    -eye for an eye - some kind of return % dmg OR/AND some ALL dmg reduction aswell X% depending, 1-3min cd(not only physical reduction ret is lacking mitigation, absorbtion isnt as good in a lot of situations, and bubble is on a very long cd)
    ========row 40===================
    -divine purpose - increase proc % chance to 20% like it used to be.
    -holy avenger - reduce cd to 2min. double HP generation reduced from triple(something closer to memory of lucid dreams which was very fun along side crusade for example, and the cd's match).
    -seraphim - boring/unfun talent. already have inquisition. dont need another spell of the same type. leads to weird/clunky/unfun rotations. would be best replaced with some new unique ability in terms of gameplay/rotation. check talent ideas for replacement.
    ========row 45===================
    -selfless healer - add reduced mana cost as well. and/or bump heal more with more stacks(heal felt too weak, but now we have WoG baseline)
    -justicar's vengeance - should be reworked and become honor talent(replace by some word of glory modifier talent)
    -healing hands - looks lackluster, (also about time you enable lay on hands in rated arena again)
    ========row 50===================
    -sanctified wrath - looks ok, fresh ideas: (reduce cd and duration by 50% OR increase duration of avenging wrath by 25%, reduce cd of hammer of wrath inside avenging wrath by 50%)
    -crusade - ok in its form, might be too weak compared to other talent choices in row. maybe add the explosion dmg per holypower spent to crusade and not sanctified wrath.
    -inquisition - +20sec duration per holy power spent instead of +15.
    =================================
    CURRENT ABILITIES THAT NEED WORK:
    -crusader strike - should hit more than auto attack!!! buff dmg
    -hammer of wrath - needs higher damage to feel closer to an execute OR maybe bump execute % hp usability from 20 to 35.
    -retribution aura rework or just remove it with some new aura(current one is horrible, promotes unhealthy and bad gameplay, ruins balancing, performance, rng, logs, etc)
    -auras off the gcd !!!
    -flash of light - heal was very minor in bfa, now its even smaller. needs a buff and better scaling throughout expac.
    -word of glory - (3-5HP big insta heal(amount should be like 30-45% hp), maybe cd and charges depending)
    -wake of ashes - reduce cd to 30sec, reduce the dmg buff, makes for a more fluid/fun rotation, also more controlled aoe in m+.
    -consecration - maybe generates 1 HP, also probably needs something like crusader strike deals aoe damage inside it AND/OR divine storm does increased damage to targets inside it.
    =================================
    ADDITION IDEAS:
    -purge the wicked/warrior of the light (baseline,passive - damage against undead/demons/abberations increased by X%)
    -mark of the crusader/crusaders mark - (baseline,passive - debuff similar to what monk/dh have, physical and/or magic damage taken increased by 2-3% OR increased crit chance on target by 2-3% for all group) OR -sanctity aura (replace retribution aura ,2%-3% more dmg whole grp)
    -pursuit of justice (baseline,passive - increased 15% mov.speed)
    =================================
    TALENT IDEAS:
    -divine righteousness (talent, if Divine Storm hits X or more targets the next Divine Storm within X seconds costs 1 less holy power).
    -holy wrath - (talent, increase usability to 35% hp for hammer of wrath OR hammer of wrath always crits OR generates more HP OR procs for usability on hammer of wrath)
    -avengers might (talent, every X holypower spent reduces the cd of avenging wrath by X second)(last row)
    -blessing of spellwarding (talent, just like the protection one)
    -consecrated pursuit (talent, consecration moves with you just like the old glyph, solves movement problems + increased damage or something)
    -vengeance - (talent,passive - X holy power spent gives you a stack that increases ur dmg done and haste by X%, for X seconds, stacks up to X times)(passive inquisition if needed for passive talent in row).
    =================================
    HONOR TALENTS CHANGES:
    -cleanse magic - (honor talent, cleanse also removes 1 magic effect. very important for ret pvp) replaces cleansing light
    -long arm of the law - (honor talent, gain 45% mov.speed for 3-4seconds on judge) - replaces luminescence
    -hallowed grounds (honor talent, currently holy and prot have it, add it to ret honor talents aswell since consecration is baseline now)
    -justicars vengeance (honor talent, 3HP deal dmg based on dmg taken in last X window, similar to death strike from dk's, capped on X% max hp)
    -templars resolve - (honor talent, on templar verdict converts x% of dmg into shield OR reduce damage taken by x% for x seconds like the old glyph)
    -jurisdiction - rework/remove, needs something added to it, its lacking.
    -vengeance aura - rework/remove.
    -hammer of reckoning - rework/remove.
    Last edited by Cofic; 2020-04-27 at 07:03 PM.

  4. #384
    Looking at how they changed Night Fae Aura into Blessing and Venthyr covenant abilities, it feels like Paladin's Covenant Abilities were the afterthoughs Blizzard didnt care to go with properly.

    Like "Well, lets make HS/Judgment and AS but on 5 targets, uhhh, and then big Consecration, and then some Hammers, and some Aura, well, shit, Blessing. Okay thats fine, move on to the next class".

    And other classes got cool and unique HPS/DPS and utility buffs.

  5. #385
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Like "Well, lets make HS/Judgment and AS but on 5 targets.
    Do we know if the Avenger's Shield from that ability bounces/proc talents?

    Because if it literally just deals AS' damage to 5 targets, it's LAUGHABLY shit... but if it still bounces and procs talents, than having a potential for 25 AS hits every minute will give paladins INSANE snap threat.
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  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Do we know if the Avenger's Shield from that ability bounces/proc talents?

    Because if it literally just deals AS' damage to 5 targets, it's LAUGHABLY shit... but if it still bounces and procs talents, than having a potential for 25 AS hits every minute will give paladins INSANE snap threat.
    It does fire 5 shields with bounce and silence/cc. You can see in Preach's vids for example

  7. #387
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Guderian View Post
    It does fire 5 shields with bounce and silence/cc. You can see in Preach's vids for example
    Nice, nice. I'd say that's a pretty strong freakin ability, then. Especially when combined with the shield talent.
    Check out the blog I write for LEGENDARY Indie Label Flicknife Records:

    Blog Twenty Eight is live! In which we discuss our latest releases, and I talk about my new Podcast.
    https://www.flickniferecords.co.uk/blog/item/29-blog-29

  8. #388
    The Patient Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cofic View Post
    PALADIN GENERAL ( THESE ARE IDEAS/THOUGHTS, NOT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED )

    ========RAID WIDE/GROUP UTILITY==========
    -brez(if any1 should have it its a paladin, remember warcraft 3 paladin?)
    -empowereded aura (raid/grp wide cd) - empowers ur active aura for X seconds
    -buffs (see greater blessings) OR -mark of the crusader/crusaders mark - (baseline,passive - debuff similar to what monk/dh have, physical and/or magic damage taken increased by 2-3% OR increased crit chance on target by 2-3% for all group)
    =====greater blessings(1 for all specs and 1 unique per spec)========
    -kings(for all specs) - X% primary stats ???
    -might(ret specific) - increased attack power, OR % of secondary stat OR % of highest secondary stat, OR certain stat(no procs please)
    -salvation(prot or ret specific) - reduce threat generated( if threat is more of a thing )
    -sanctuary(prot specific) - less damage taken by X OR redirect X damage to tank OR ???
    -light(holy specific - increased healing taken by X.
    -wisdom(holy specific - mana regen by X)


    RETRIBUTION SPECIFIC ( THESE ARE IDEAS/THOUGHTS, NOT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED )

    CURRENT TALENTS:
    ========row 15===================
    -zeal - meh
    -righteous verdict - change it from only templar verdict to templar verdict and divine storm like the legendary cloak from legion.
    -execution sentence - needs to hit much harder than templar verdict, the % increased damage is only holy and 20% is too low. make it higher % and reduce duration. would prefer for it to be very potent but have a 1min cd or even cost 5HP.
    ========row 25===================
    -fires of justice - ok in its form.
    -blade of wrath - ok, fresh flavour ideas: (procs generate +1 HP OR always crit OR burn target for X% of dmg for 6secs)(numbers need testing)
    -empyrean power - looks ok(needs more testing)
    ========row 30===================
    -fist of justice - also increases range on hammer of justice by 10yrds (keep in mind its magic=dispelable)
    -repentance - instant cast,incap for 6-7sec players, 1min on npc, 1min cd (cast on rep is horrible for melee,esp dps and esp in pvp(ret has pretty low/weak cc compared to everyone else, so maybe baseline)
    -blinding light - ok in its form, has its niche.
    ========row 35===================
    -unbreakable spirit - (40-50% reduction, Shield of Vengeance def needs to be 1-1.5min cd and divine shield def needs 3min max considering how other classes/specs are looking)
    -cavalier - divine steed has 2 charges AND something more for mobility(either increased duration 1-2sec OR more speed OR cant be slowed/rooted on horse OR further decrease on cd, keep in mind that crusader heart is now an aura so its not gonna give you the bonus anymore most of the time)
    -eye for an eye - some kind of return % dmg OR/AND some ALL dmg reduction aswell X% depending, 1-3min cd(not only physical reduction ret is lacking mitigation, absorbtion isnt as good in a lot of situations, and bubble is on a very long cd)
    ========row 40===================
    -divine purpose - increase proc % chance to 20% like it used to be.
    -holy avenger - reduce cd to 2min. double HP generation reduced from triple(something closer to memory of lucid dreams which was very fun along side crusade for example, and the cd's match).
    -seraphim - boring/unfun talent. already have inquisition. dont need another spell of the same type. leads to weird/clunky/unfun rotations. would be best replaced with some new unique ability in terms of gameplay/rotation. check talent ideas for replacement.
    ========row 45===================
    -selfless healer - add reduced mana cost as well. and/or bump heal more with more stacks(heal felt too weak, but now we have WoG baseline)
    -justicar's vengeance - should be reworked and become honor talent(replace by some word of glory modifier talent)
    -healing hands - looks lackluster, (also about time you enable lay on hands in rated arena again)
    ========row 50===================
    -sanctified wrath - looks ok, fresh ideas: (reduce cd and duration by 50% OR increase duration of avenging wrath by 25%, reduce cd of hammer of wrath inside avenging wrath by 50%)
    -crusade - ok in its form, might be too weak compared to other talent choices in row. maybe add the explosion dmg per holypower spent to crusade and not sanctified wrath.
    -inquisition - +20sec duration per holy power spent instead of +15.
    =================================
    CURRENT ABILITIES THAT NEED WORK:
    -crusader strike - should hit more than auto attack!!! buff dmg
    -hammer of wrath - needs higher damage to feel closer to an execute OR maybe bump execute % hp usability from 20 to 35.
    -retribution aura rework or just remove it with some new aura(current one is horrible, promotes unhealthy and bad gameplay, ruins balancing, performance, rng, logs, etc)
    -auras off the gcd !!!
    -flash of light - heal was very minor in bfa, now its even smaller. needs a buff and better scaling throughout expac.
    -word of glory - (3-5HP big insta heal(amount should be like 30-45% hp), maybe cd and charges depending)
    -wake of ashes - reduce cd to 30sec, reduce the dmg buff, makes for a more fluid/fun rotation, also more controlled aoe in m+.
    -consecration - maybe generates 1 HP, also probably needs something like crusader strike deals aoe damage inside it AND/OR divine storm does increased damage to targets inside it.
    =================================
    ADDITION IDEAS:
    -purge the wicked/warrior of the light (baseline,passive - damage against undead/demons/abberations increased by X%)
    -mark of the crusader/crusaders mark - (baseline,passive - debuff similar to what monk/dh have, physical and/or magic damage taken increased by 2-3% OR increased crit chance on target by 2-3% for all group) OR -sanctity aura (replace retribution aura ,2%-3% more dmg whole grp)
    -pursuit of justice (baseline,passive - increased 15% mov.speed)
    =================================
    TALENT IDEAS:
    -divine righteousness (talent, if Divine Storm hits X or more targets the next Divine Storm within X seconds costs 1 less holy power).
    -holy wrath - (talent, increase usability to 35% hp for hammer of wrath OR hammer of wrath always crits OR generates more HP OR procs for usability on hammer of wrath)
    -avengers might (talent, every X holypower spent reduces the cd of avenging wrath by X second)(last row)
    -blessing of spellwarding (talent, just like the protection one)
    -consecrated pursuit (talent, consecration moves with you just like the old glyph, solves movement problems + increased damage or something)
    -vengeance - (talent,passive - X holy power spent gives you a stack that increases ur dmg done and haste by X%, for X seconds, stacks up to X times)(passive inquisition if needed for passive talent in row).
    =================================
    HONOR TALENTS CHANGES:
    -cleanse magic - (honor talent, cleanse also removes 1 magic effect. very important for ret pvp) replaces cleansing light
    -long arm of the law - (honor talent, gain 45% mov.speed for 3-4seconds on judge) - replaces luminescence
    -hallowed grounds (honor talent, currently holy and prot have it, add it to ret honor talents aswell since consecration is baseline now)
    -justicars vengeance (honor talent, 3HP deal dmg based on dmg taken in last X window, similar to death strike from dk's, capped on X% max hp)
    -templars resolve - (honor talent, on templar verdict converts x% of dmg into shield OR reduce damage taken by x% for x seconds like the old glyph)
    -jurisdiction - rework/remove, needs something added to it, its lacking.
    -vengeance aura - rework/remove.
    -hammer of reckoning - rework/remove.

    Wait a minute, so you actually think it would be okay for rets to be able to heal their teammates for insane amounts, bop them preventing all physical damage, Freedom them, Have a wall for themselves, an immunity only dispellable by one class, an instant cast incap, the ability to dispel MAGIC, which only healers should be able to do... etc as well as be able to do an entire health bar worth in damage in 3 gloabals?

    Every class in the game shouldnt be able to do everything that every other class can do. Stop asking for this. lol

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Wait a minute, so you actually think it would be okay for rets to be able to heal their teammates for insane amounts, bop them preventing all physical damage, Freedom them, Have a wall for themselves, an immunity only dispellable by one class, an instant cast incap, the ability to dispel MAGIC, which only healers should be able to do... etc as well as be able to do an entire health bar worth in damage in 3 gloabals?

    Every class in the game shouldnt be able to do everything that every other class can do. Stop asking for this. lol
    You not only dont know how to read. But you dont even know what you're actually talking about. Also im gonna ask whatever i want.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Nice, nice. I'd say that's a pretty strong freakin ability, then. Especially when combined with the shield talent.
    I'm a bit skeptical about that. On paper, throwing a Shield at 5 enemies seems nice as an AoE interrupt for an M+ or for extra AoE burst damage. In practice, I don't think I've ever really been in a situation where I've needed that much disruptive power. Normally it's uninteruptable casts that need to be stunned that are more problematic than just regular spell casts.

    Obviously things may change with Shadowlands and there may well be situations where it's useful to have. Based on BFA content, I can't really think of any situation where it would be anything more than a luxary abiilty.

  11. #391
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Well it is 20 HoPo per aura change so it's not like a Pally is gonna be switching every few seconds, no matter what you do you're going to nerf a Pally to keep them in a specific aura. If it's Ret you'll kill their DPS...if it's Holy you'll hurt their healing...if it's Prot you'll reduce their damage, threat, and defense.
    They changed how Blessings of Seasons (yes it's called Blessing now not Aura). Basically you click it to switch it for an effect that last 1 min. 15 sec cd between each change.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=312525/...adowlands-alph

    "Night Fae: Blessing of the Seasons

    Aura of Autumn Bless your nearby party party members for 1 min, causing their cooldowns to recover 10% faster. Blessing of Seasons: Turns to Winter after use. 15 sec cooldown.

    Blessing of Spring Bless your nearby party members for 1 min, increasing their healing done and healing received by 10%. Blessing of Seasons: Turns to Summer after use. 15 sec cooldown.

    Blessing of Summer Bless your nearby party members for 1 min, causing their attacks to have a high chance to deal (100% of Spell power) Holy damage. Blessing of Seasons: Turns to Autumn after use. 15 sec cooldown.

    Blessing of Winter Bless yourself for 1 min, reducing the movement speed of enemies within 40 yards by 20%, and their attack speed by 10%. Blessing of the Seasons: Turns to Spring after use. 15 sec cooldown.

    Note: this was missing from the Blizzard blog and therefore may be unused."

    May still be iterated on as it's not officially on blogpost yet. But this sounds better than the earlier iteration.

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