Highborne customizations for the Night Elves (NOT High Elves)

[Beloren]

Posture adjustments to the Neck:




I am hoping they adjust this too, the old model posture is much more likeable to the new model, look at the neck on the males in particular.


Faces - Translating better versions from the old

Now they can add new male night elf faces, by doing a better job of translating form the old. Now two of the old male faces I like very much, and it is my opinion hat the fan artists modelled their night elves ont hat. Check it out:



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AND

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These 2 faces from classic don't really have an equivalent in the WoD remake - the fanartists take the classic face and give it the sort of lift or translation to HD I had hoped for in the new models of 6.0. 3 expansions later in 10.0, well I would be happy with them making those faces from classic, translate to good looking ones on live.




Matrix123mko Response is long but

Ravenmoon's reply to Matrix123mko even longer, I don't think I could add any more to that. it is sufficient, I'll skip to some of the points I've noticed you make.







I think there is your problem, you are saying night elven cultures aren't night elf culture.

The race has many cultures, when you play a night elf, you are playing druidic culture , priest culture, Illidari culture, Highborne culture - the race has all of these in it, and you are playing an aspect of it as you choose.

If a group of night elves are living that way , it is a night elf culture. No buts, no exception. What you are doing is picking and choosing to fit only your narrative.

Oh but that's not the Darnassian culture - or really, Present day Darnassian society IS NOT a long vigil society. It is not in isolation, it uses arcane magic, it has allies, friends, it has Highborne, even the Illidari are taking part, there are undead too. The druid culture is also different from the priest culture.

Yes, they are not the same, they are two different cultures, Priests aren't dwelling in forests, revering and fixing nature. They're in Temples or patrolling they have their distinct customs.

Sorry, but it seems you have decided Night elven culture is anything but stuff that deals with the arcane, and that's just laughable.


That is your opinion. Saying its the most important is opinion. Please have the honesty to recgonise it as such and not make it what it isn't.

What is fact is that it is the most prominently SHOWN part of the Darnassian society during WC3. An era that ends SPPECTACULARLY in the very series it was shown in.

1. It was not the only idnentity or aspect of the Night elves, their empire was global, that is the bigger one
2. It ended, just because it is the first shown, doesn't mean its the most important. All we know is that it is prominent. But it is not the only iconic or promientn one, nor is it

Their current one is taking a new shape that is already vastly different from the all exclusive nature one.

If the game starts showing you one thing, but then has novels that tell another, then every successive iteration they show you more of the night elf cultures, and go to great lengths.

WC3 may have only been trees and buildings, but that was just the stage of the story.. the novels and development tell you directly that wasn't all.

Later wow, then 4.0, then 7.0 show you more.

In fact.. if you take your reference point from any of it, then you should from 7.0 (as opposed to WC3), they spent the most time on it and it is the biggest show of night elves in the game, eclipsing the WC3 effort and classic. For showing the Night elf peoples and their cultures. It is far more comprehensive of the whole picture, and shows things in the lore from day one.

Notice the plural, cultures. And notice I don't say one is the most important. to druids, nature is the most important, and that culture. To priests its Elune and the temples, to Highborne/Moonguard it's the arcane and cities. To Illidari its fel and demons. They are all important, and they are ALL Night elven.

Just because one stands out to you the most, don't try to make it as if its the only important one. They are all important.

Tbh, I just see this as denial of the dark elf side of the Night elf in a horde only fan's belief that arcane mastery and elven civilization are the exclusive purview and right of the horde and its elves only. So how dare Night elf fans muscle in on our territory.

• No, it's not your territory, it is not exclusive property of you or the horde, the very blood elves and Nightborne are alliance races ported over,
• They are not there to rob the night elves or transfer half of their identity to the other faction.
• They are merely another people group for you to play a different looking type of night elf and experience some of what the Kaldorei have on the horde.

It wouldn't matter to me one bit if the Nightborne added druidism and Elunism, it is in their racial heritage, why would I have a problem. Why should you have a problem with something that is a part of the night elves from day one still being a part of the night elves and actually getting decent development.

What makes you think night elf fans ONLY ever want druid and nature upgrades, and don't care or desire about their arcane side or their civilization and cities that are part of the lore? Such drew and attracted many to the night elves including myself. I'm not a forest person, they're pretty or can be, but that's what they. For me, peoples, cultures, civilizations now this is what interests me the most.

It's never just been about forests and nature for night elves. Its always been about the arcane, Elune and nature at the core, with Fel developing during the invasion of the legion. and now all 4 are majoar tenets of the race.

Dude, you're goin through a lot of trouble to explain what's kinda already there, to the extent you might be creating the problem you're trying to solve.

You might be disappointed, cos you seem to be expecting the kaldorei to get some big arcane display in-game to match the Nightborne, but the developers may be viewing the Nightborne as that change.

Many of us view these races too deeply from the faction centric point of view, the devs might not. Really only orcs & humans, the original horde/alliance may hold that place.. races like void elves and Nightborne the developers likely actually view as high elves and Night elves. Alliance seems disappointed they can't get playable high elves, but the developers view blood elves as exactly that thing already, which is wh void the variation could be playable on alliance.

You seem really keen on a lot more night elf arcane display, but when they were doing Suramar AND the Nightborne they were doing that Night elf arcane display. Night elf arcane dominated Legion, just like your female warrior priest (as you like to put it) dominated WC3, and the druid dominated classic. I don't think you're going to get some big Kaldorei arcane showing, you've already got it in the Nightborne and Highborne etc. You already got it, and might have to change how you perceive things.

I don't think blizzard will go out of their way to show much more. They haven't advanced the druidic bit for a while and that might be the focus of the next visit to the night elves having already done the arcane in the nightborne & highborne, Moonguard too stuff in Legion. If they do Night elves a new city, yes, I think you will get something similar to Zin'Azshari in looks (not size) or Suramar, but it's unlikely, you're more likely to share Suramar or take it from the Nightborne than get another.

You are likely to get some highborne looking customisations, but don't expect some big display any time soon. If you're lucky, they'd bring the Farondis zone Highborne back to life, they are basically show the Highborne in Night elf form and are an easy solution to rebuilding the Night elf population, they will also likely return the dead Night elves from WoT

@matrix123mko - the same goes for you, when blizzard see Nightborne, they are seeing Night elves, this is why people expecting nightborne to get everything totally different to night elves are going to be very disappointed, they saw it as people wanting these night elves on the horde because they matched the blood elf mindset and presentation (but in the night elf way). They designed a Night elf civilisation, from Night elf lore. And basically everything bout them is the Highborne mode, they just have a different model, because blizzard does this all the time for races... @ravenmoon is correct there. They could easily have just used the Kaldorei model, however it is ironic that this model change might have been the chief factor they were able to be on the horde.

Notice the void elves didn't get a model change, they could have, and they could have given high elves instead and created a model change. They didn't. Blizzard and fans are not always on the same wavelengths, fans don't see how they discuss things. Nightborne are entirely the Night elves lore, they may not be feeling they need to show the same again in the Kaldorei alliance half, it's already there and it makes little difference to that point of view that Nightborne are horde - but for fans like Mace it might mean the world. Blood elves are entirely the high elves, but fans have taken that high elves as a faction still being on the alliance makes them some other race they are entitled to play.

It doesn't, sure it's possible they could be playable, but I honestly thought blizzard felt void elves would be a better idea than high elves, and when they were creating nightborne they weren't thinking we'll make a horde race different, because Nightborne were not created to be horde or join the horde, they were Night elf civilisation with a unique story , so when the decision to do allied races came, and they looked at fan favourites, Nightborne fit the bill like all the other core race variation groups like Highmountain, Mag'har, Dark irons, etc etc, and once they became candidate, it meant they could be added to the horde, and those who argued for the horde won teh day.

- - - Updated - - -

Well Alliance is technically owed one posture change to match what the orcs got. Unless it's Horde favoritism rearing its ugly head again?

They made you Nelf guys even more derpy in the new models huh. i remember when they also changed the ears... it took fans complaining for them to better match them to the old model - those new ears were so derpy.

Incidentally Nightborne look a lot more like the old nihgt elf model posture wise. Still very ugly, but they do. I think the blizzard have spoken, Night elves are the derpy elf cousins /jk

but maybe it's not horde favoritism, but how they want Night elves to look. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and they may find derpy cute

[Mace]

Dude, you're goin through a lot of trouble to explain what's kinda already there, to the extent you might be creating the problem you're trying to solve.

You might be disappointed, cos you seem to be expecting the kaldorei to get some big arcane display in-game to match the Nightborne, but the developers may be viewing the Nightborne as that change.

Many of us view these races too deeply from the faction centric point of view, the devs might not. Really only orcs & humans, the original horde/alliance may hold that place.. races like void elves and Nightborne the developers likely actually view as high elves and Night elves. Alliance seems disappointed they can't get playable high elves, but the developers view blood elves as exactly that thing already, which is wh void the variation could be playable on alliance.

You seem really keen on a lot more night elf arcane display, but when they were doing Suramar AND the Nightborne they were doing that Night elf arcane display. Night elf arcane dominated Legion, just like your female warrior priest (as you like to put it) dominated WC3, and the druid dominated classic. I don't think you're going to get some big Kaldorei arcane showing, you've already got it in the Nightborne and Highborne etc. You already got it, and might have to change how you perceive things.

I don't think blizzard will go out of their way to show much more. They haven't advanced the druidic bit for a while and that might be the focus of the next visit to the night elves having already done the arcane in the nightborne & highborne, Moonguard too stuff in Legion. If they do Night elves a new city, yes, I think you will get something similar to Zin'Azshari in looks (not size) or Suramar, but it's unlikely, you're more likely to share Suramar or take it from the Nightborne than get another.

You are likely to get some highborne looking customisations, but don't expect some big display any time soon. If you're lucky, they'd bring the Farondis zone Highborne back to life, they are basically show the Highborne in Night elf form and are an easy solution to rebuilding the Night elf population, they will also likely return the dead Night elves from WoT

@matrix123mko - the same goes for you, when blizzard see Nightborne, they are seeing Night elves, this is why people expecting nightborne to get everything totally different to night elves are going to be very disappointed, they saw it as people wanting these night elves on the horde because they matched the blood elf mindset and presentation (but in the night elf way). They designed a Night elf civilisation, from Night elf lore. And basically everything bout them is the Highborne mode, they just have a different model, because blizzard does this all the time for races... @ravenmoon is correct there. They could easily have just used the Kaldorei model, however it is ironic that this model change might have been the chief factor they were able to be on the horde.

Notice the void elves didn't get a model change, they could have, and they could have given high elves instead and created a model change. They didn't. Blizzard and fans are not always on the same wavelengths, fans don't see how they discuss things. Nightborne are entirely the Night elves lore, they may not be feeling they need to show the same again in the Kaldorei alliance half, it's already there and it makes little difference to that point of view that Nightborne are horde - but for fans like Mace it might mean the world. Blood elves are entirely the high elves, but fans have taken that high elves as a faction still being on the alliance makes them some other race they are entitled to play.

It doesn't, sure it's possible they could be playable, but I honestly thought blizzard felt void elves would be a better idea than high elves, and when they were creating nightborne they weren't thinking we'll make a horde race different, because Nightborne were not created to be horde or join the horde, they were Night elf civilisation with a unique story , so when the decision to do allied races came, and they looked at fan favourites, Nightborne fit the bill like all the other core race variation groups like Highmountain, Mag'har, Dark irons, etc etc, and once they became candidate, it meant they could be added to the horde, and those who argued for the horde won teh day.

Part of the developers job is to see things from the fans point of view and address accordingly.

If this is the case, they should be aware that it matters to fan when such things happen. Faction differences is important, Callously giving Nightborne to the horde, and expecting fans to be happy just because the stuff is there is being very oblivious to the groups such things matter the most too.

The very lest they could do is explain things, Do a piece on the High elves, talk to the community, explain to them how they view the blood elves as high elves, and the high elves are just a faction of the same race.

Explain the same about the Nightborne, but frankly it won't hurt for htem to give the night elf a highborne cusotmisation, for the mere reason that the Nightborne is not a night elf model and your night elf characters don't haveappearances that match the Highborne they want to play very well.

Furthermore, it is really easy to do a little lore piece to fix many of these arguments, Explain or show down the line more clearly that the highborne and Nightborne are pretty much the samething with different models. Show Highborne looking fancy in fancy locations - not just in ruins, show them going toe to toe with Nightborne - drive the point home. THe Moonguard and Farondis are really shown as incredible spell casters, show them joining the Darnassians. The Moonguard remnant taking over the offensive training of the night elf mages and establishing the guard, show their mages alongside sentinesl and show the newly trained ones kicking ass, not like foibles of the Azsahra szone.

Restore Farondis then, it really doesn't hurt they are essentially acting as alive people, make it so, let the Night elf fans feel they are not been forgotten, not being marginalised, and that inclusion is only important when it's the horde.

[Beloren]

Part of the developers job is to see things from the fans point of view and address accordingly.

If this is the case, they should be aware that it matters to fan when such things happen. Faction differences is important, Callously giving Nightborne to the horde, and expecting fans to be happy just because the stuff is there is being very oblivious to the groups such things matter the most too.

The very lest they could do is explain things, Do a piece on the High elves, talk to the community, explain to them how they view the blood elves as high elves, and the high elves are just a faction of the same race.

Explain the same about the Nightborne, but frankly it won't hurt for htem to give the night elf a highborne cusotmisation, for the mere reason that the Nightborne is not a night elf model and your night elf characters don't haveappearances that match the Highborne they want to play very well.

Furthermore, it is really easy to do a little lore piece to fix many of these arguments, Explain or show down the line more clearly that the highborne and Nightborne are pretty much the samething with different models. Show Highborne looking fancy in fancy locations - not just in ruins, show them going toe to toe with Nightborne - drive the point home. THe Moonguard and Farondis are really shown as incredible spell casters, show them joining the Darnassians. The Moonguard remnant taking over the offensive training of the night elf mages and establishing the guard, show their mages alongside sentinesl and show the newly trained ones kicking ass, not like foibles of the Azsahra szone.

Restore Farondis then, it really doesn't hurt they are essentially acting as alive people, make it so, let the Night elf fans feel they are not been forgotten, not being marginalised, and that inclusion is only important when it's the horde.

My point is they already have - Farondis are there, Nightborne are there, Moonguard are there - it's all there, does it HAVE to be shown in the faction group as well? As one of you pointed out, you play demon hunters and they're not eevn connected to the Darnassians. But they are there and night elven.

[Mace]

My point is they already have - Farondis are there, Nightborne are there, Moonguard are there .

Well obviously not, just look at the discussions!

it's all there, does it HAVE to be shown in the faction group as well? As one of you pointed out, you play demon hunters and they're not eevn connected to the Darnassians. But they are there and night elven.

Demon hunters are exactly why Highborne customisation is necessary, so I can roleplay looking properly in character, and I don't have to be a Darnassian affliated one, a Moonguard or other non-Darnassian one that is helping the alliance, would do. Even though I strongly feel, these nonaffliated groups should become part of the Darnassian community.

[Beloren]

Well obviously not, just look at the discussions!

Half of which you are generating!

[Mace]

Half of which you are generating!

They are a lot more than what I am saying, but they prove the point these things are important to fans, so though they view things that way, fans need a little extra to show.

It doesn't hurt one bit, to bring the Moonguard to the Shen'dralar and show them taking over, put Moonguard alongside sentinels, and it is also nothing to switch off the ghost effect on the Farondis models, and bringing the Prince back as a living Highborne and taking the lead

Even if they don't build anything yet, showing this up turn in development can make a lot of difference to fans like me.

[Beloren]

What about the druids and the other sections of the night elves, they need help, and should take priority

[Mace]

What about the druids and the other sections of the night elves, they need help, and should take priority

Should? why should? You're not suggesting like matrix that druidism should take priority in the night elves? Why should ? because you want? Why not the Order of Elune and the Priestesses? why not the Highborne and the arcane aspect? why not the demon hunters. Why should?

Now you're just being difficult, like you don't want this arcane/Highborne side development to happen when you say things like that. They have a lot of druid development already, tbh, they don't need to show more for a while, it's the most visible part of the night elves in the Darnassians, the other parts like the Illidari and the Highborne, and the Moon Priestesses need a lot more visibility to the Darnassiasn. It doesn't help the night elf players who are Darnassians, if the Highborne, Illidari and others aren't really associated with the playable group, more should be done

[Beloren]

Should? why should? You're not suggesting like matrix that druidism should take priority in the night elves? Why should ? because you want? Why not the Order of Elune and the Priestesses? why not the Highborne and the arcane aspect? why not the demon hunters. Why should?

Now you're just being difficult, like you don't want this arcane/Highborne side development to happen when you say things like that. They have a lot of druid development already, tbh, they don't need to show more for a while, it's the most visible part of the night elves in the Darnassians, the other parts like the Illidari and the Highborne, and the Moon Priestesses need a lot more visibility to the Darnassiasn. It doesn't help the night elf players who are Darnassians, if the Highborne, Illidari and others aren't really associated with the playable group, more should be done

Fans like matrix would say that's because the night elves are primarily about that.

[Mace]

Fans like matrix would say that's because the night elves are primarily about that.

And I would say they are wrong, and their view is skewed, based only on what they see, and not what all the lore shows. The Moon Priestesses are just as poorly shown as the Highborne, and the sentinels and huntresses also have little portrayal - and he would be hard pressed to say they are less a part of the night elves. Fans like him feel this way for 2 main reasons I have idnetified.


1. Because you never saw night elves show up in TBC/WotLK due to neglect, except for when they did druid class stuff. When the only time you see night elves show up for 6 years outside their starting zone is when the druid class quests is been done, I can understand why fans like him feel that. It is not because it's the main thing about night elves, nor because that is what night elves should be, but because night elves weren't being developed. It was druids in Cenarion expedition and D.E.H.T.A that were been seen, and at that time only Night elves and Tauren were druids - so you had to show night elves. And it was druids only because it was druid business, Sentinels, Moon Priests, Hunters, Demon Hunters, Highborne they're all part of the night elf lore, NONE of these were shown. They were doing druid class stuff, not Night elf stuff, but these fans have mis-interpreted that as thinking it is night elf stuff and therefore night elves are primarily druids. They are going by what they see, not what the lore says.

Night elf as race lore was not progressed again on till Cataclysm, however only seeing them in druid roles and playing it on repeat makes it feel like it is the main thing, but it isn't. It's not a minor thing either - but when I say that you guys think people like Raven and I think it's minor. Nor, it's a large part, but it accounts for about a third of the night elves - you guys make wrongly think it is all they are about for this reason just stated


2. Because some horde fans don't want alliance getting nice stuff they can be jealous over. It's that simple that thing called JEALOUSY !, you love horde you want the horde to be better than everyone else, it's natural when you have to take a side, you want your side to be the best, so you don't want your rival elf group to look beautiful or have stuff as good as your or even better. , so you keep insisting night elves should be druids , forests and ruins though you have little to no interest in them, all you really care is that they just don't get as good as your faves


And fans have been known to be very wrong, they're people, have agendas, biases, prejudiced, don't always think before they say something, can be very wrong. Some think night elves aren't the dark elves of wow, and since the Nightborne came, they think that's the Nightborne, because Nightborne and Night elves aren't associated, and they perceive night elves as forest elves. Despite them being the racial group, the dark near black and grey skin tones on the night elf and it being obvious. Again, constant forest portrayal which really is simply them playing forest content over and over again, driving it in, when actually it's just a moment in time for that race.

[Beloren]

2. Because some horde fans don't want alliance getting nice stuff they can be jealous over. It's that simple that thing called JEALOUSY !, you love horde you want the horde to be better than everyone else, it's natural when you have to take a side, you want your side to be the best, so you don't want your rival elf group to look beautiful or have stuff as good as your or even better. , so you keep insisting night elves should be druids , forests and ruins though you have little to no interest in them, all you really care is that they just don't get as good as your faves

Wait, then aren't you also jealous because of what horde elves have, and that's why you're wanting it, you are equally as jealous then.

[Mace]

Wait, then aren't you also jealous because of what horde elves have, and that's why you're wanting it, you are equally as jealous then.

I'm not jealous of what is Night elven stuff, as you were pointing out a minute ago, why would I be jealous of what I already know is night elven, I am just pissed off that the faction the race is mainly on is not given the nice bits of its lore and race - but the opposite faction is, like some sort of bias. That's not jealousy it's annoyance and it is coming off as bias from blizz's part towards horde.

[Beloren]

I'm not jealous of what is Night elven stuff, as you were pointing out a minute ago, why would I be jealous of what I already know is night elven, I am just pissed off that the faction the race is mainly on is not given the nice bits of its lore and race - but the opposite faction is, like some sort of bias. That's not jealousy it's annoyance and it is coming off as bias from blizz's part towards horde.

They don't feel that way, if as I suspect they view it as night elven thing and aren't really being biased. As I said.

[Mace]

They don't feel that way, if as I suspect they view it as night elven thing and aren't really being biased. As I said.

Then they should take a hard look at what it looks like to someone from the outside, especially the alliance fans.. Hey you're given all the cool stuff to the opposite faction again, meanwhile you destroy our elves, make us homeless, give us another homeless elf race, and then our cool versions like Moonguard, and Farondis, you leave outside our faction, and don't develop or restore them either - only showing us as losers, weak, and broken - meanwhile our fancy civilization, and powerful wielders are shown on the horde - @FossilFree i.e. horde gets all the cool stuff, again, including night elf cool stuff now.


Look I would be okay with it if they had done something similar to the alliance night elves, like making em share Duramar , or developing Azsuna and the Farondis/Monoguard for them, wouldn't think it was out right biased then,but they didn't.

@matrix123mko - this is exactly the same as them taking the nicest bits of the blood elves, including Silvermoon and the magecraft, and giving it to the void elves, then destroying the blood elves making them lose, go homeless, and only show them wielding the Light now. I know you'd be upset at this, do you get why am?

[Beloren]

Now you're just being difficult, like you don't want this arcane/Highborne side development to happen when you say things like that. They have a lot of druid development already, tbh, they don't need to show more for a while, it's the most visible part of the night elves in the Darnassians, the other parts like the Illidari and the Highborne, and the Moon Priestesses need a lot more visibility to the Darnassiasn. It doesn't help the night elf players who are Darnassians, if the Highborne, Illidari and others aren't really associated with the playable group, more should be done

And I would say they are wrong, and their view is skewed, based only on what they see, and not what all the lore shows. The Moon Priestesses are just as poorly shown as the Highborne, and the sentinels and huntresses also have little portrayal - and he would be hard pressed to say they are less a part of the night elves. Fans like him feel this way for 2 main reasons I have idnetified.


1. Because you never saw night elves show up in TBC/WotLK due to neglect, except for when they did druid class stuff. When the only time you see night elves show up for 6 years outside their starting zone is when the druid class quests is been done, I can understand why fans like him feel that. It is not because it's the main thing about night elves, nor because that is what night elves should be, but because night elves weren't being developed. It was druids in Cenarion expedition and D.E.H.T.A that were been seen, and at that time only Night elves and Tauren were druids - so you had to show night elves. And it was druids only because it was druid business, Sentinels, Moon Priests, Hunters, Demon Hunters, Highborne they're all part of the night elf lore, NONE of these were shown. They were doing druid class stuff, not Night elf stuff, but these fans have mis-interpreted that as thinking it is night elf stuff and therefore night elves are primarily druids. They are going by what they see, not what the lore says.

Night elf as race lore was not progressed again on till Cataclysm, however only seeing them in druid roles and playing it on repeat makes it feel like it is the main thing, but it isn't. It's not a minor thing either - but when I say that you guys think people like Raven and I think it's minor. Nor, it's a large part, but it accounts for about a third of the night elves - you guys make wrongly think it is all they are about for this reason just stated

I'm not jealous of what is Night elven stuff, as you were pointing out a minute ago, why would I be jealous of what I already know is night elven, I am just pissed off that the faction the race is mainly on is not given the nice bits of its lore and race - but the opposite faction is, like some sort of bias. That's not jealousy it's annoyance and it is coming off as bias from blizz's part towards horde.

Okay, okay, You may be right, I didn't really think of it that way.. To be honest I don't mind if they show more of your Highborne and night elf arcane stuff in your faction.

My point was it is already in the game, but if having it involved in the faction matters to you guys, because tha'ts twhat you play, then I guess the devs could see it your way and it wouldn't take much to show that own the line. Just don't expect i t 100% though, it may never happen, take solace in knowing that you at least have the Farondis, the Moonguard, the Nightborne, Suramar the ancient night elf city and the Nightborne as the de-facto playable Highborne option - but yes, I do concede, it matters that it's not accessible to your side, and you shouldn't have to faction change to better visualise something that you already have or should have available better



I see your point, it is a valid one. I'm not the one that needs to see this, blizzard is. ALot of this does feel a bit like the kid brother crying because his bro got a nice proper transformer toy he really liked, and wants it for himself because he had gotten transformers first. Meanwhile blizzard is the parent and wants to give their kids nice stuff - it may just be that you have to wait and it will come.

[Mace]

I do concede, it matters that it's not accessible to your side, and you shouldn't have to faction change to better visualise something that you already have or should have available better

Exactly, thank you. All we're asking was to show more of what we already know is ours, in us, that's all. Tie it in, do things properly for the Night elves, don't start then leave it unfinished. If you're giving Farondis, and Moonguard, let's see them transition from the broken isles and be a part of the playable night elves - rather than only show us night elves being slaughtered and killed or to prop the horde up or damsels in distress to make the likes of Varian and the worgen look good. it's about time the night elves are properly shown as decent and the faction group made the main centre of the Night elves. I say:

For example:

• Tie the Moonguard in properly
• Tie the Farondis in properly
• Tie the Illidari in properly.

Farondis being restored would be beautiful ending and a positive boost to the Night elves who really need quite a few after constant knockbacks, defeats, and diminishing - it's not enough to just show the cool stuff in a neutral capacity.

Moonguard a further boost

Illidari Night elves actually shown to have some sort of working agreement with the Darnassians - like we saw Maiev able to work with Tyrande, let's see the Illidari Night elves working with the Darnassians.

Make the Night elves powerful and great again. So to speak. This makes players like me feel they are connected to my faction, to me, rather than just neutral bodies out there. It matters. I like to see Night elf lore progressed and shown properly. And I'm not a child.

[ravenmoon]

snip.

wow, I need some time to go through this, might be a few days

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snip

Horde and alliance fans clearly feel differently, but as this is not about high evles, but about Night elves, and that's mainly are night elf thing, I think the alliance fans desires should have greater wait.

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Make the Night elves powerful and great again. So to speak. This makes players like me feel they are connected to my faction, to me, rather than just neutral bodies out there. It matters. I like to see Night elf lore progressed and shown properly. And I'm not a child.

To make the Night elves "great" again, or feel powerful, they'd have to do more than that.


1. For starters, restore their immortality, that's really key, identity defining feature of them, and their most distinctive racial characteristic.
2. Restore their lost power - Well of Eternity, World tree like Shaladrassil or Nordrassil, need to be used again, Font of Elune in the Cathedral of Eternal Night

With so few of htem around, they need to use their incredible power sources, the Well, the World Tree and the Goddess. Also
3. Make them unbeatable for the forseeable future, - show them out smarting, out fighting and out magicking the races who featured as best in those fields. - basically a reveresal of what was done to them, when they were made the victims beaten to show other races and people were powerful, and a reversal from showing them lose every time or barely scrape through. - let it be win nearly all the time, and powerfully, and the few losses, just so barely cos the enemy got lucky.

[Beloren]

2. Restore their lost power - Well of Eternity, World tree like Shaladrassil or Nordrassil, need to be used again, Font of Elune in the Cathedral of Eternal Night

Clearly! but the devs may not view it that way at all, as I said earlier, to them, it's all night elf stuff, whether on Nightborne or on Darnassian Highborne or whatever borne and the activity you get in the non-aligned groups, incl Illidari and Nightborne, are basically your races power on display. i.e. already done.

[Astranea]

@Mace @EnigmAddict @ravenmoon @FossilFree @matrix123mko

I wonder if... we could maybe... try to focus on what little details we could hopefully... possibly... all agree upon? :-)

I believe nobody is denying that the Shen'dralar exist and belong with the Night Elves, as this has already happened, and it is canon.

Fact is, that while it is undeniable that the Arcane has been at the core of the Kaldorei civilization in the past, as this lead to a series of major Lore events, it is also undeniable that following these events, the elven population split in relation to a ban SPECIFICALLY relating to the choice of continuing the experiments with magic.

Whether this was right or wrong, totally exclusive or not, it does not change the fact that it set a very specific identity trend for both factions.

Now, the Night Elves have VERY RECENTLY allowed some groups of isolated Highborne mages to return to train some young in the Arcane. But yes, they are a minority, and yes, they were 'welcomed' with suspicion and are exceptional cases, so it is perfectly understandable for people to feel afraid that giving too much special attention to them may alter the overall Night Elves flavor bringing it dangerously too close to what has been explicitly set by Blizzard at the core of the Blood Elves and Nightborne civilizations and identity.

But honestly, the matter of customization is much simpler, and a few skin and face options can be easily added without any need for Blizzard to rework the Night Elves identity. In fact, Blizzard does not even need to call them 'Highborne'... we would do so, in case, when they are compatible. ;-)

What I am asking you is to ask yourself:

1. Could Blizzard just add jewelry, prettier faces and fancy hairstyles to the Night Elves without breaking their Lore?

I think that would be easy, as the priesthood has always used jewels and we are discussing simple aesthetics. Haircuts in particular can be copied from other cultures by just going to their barbers. ;-)

I find it unreasonable to fear that players rolling a 'too pretty' Night Elf with a 'too elegant' hairstyle could damage the Lore as long as the story is being told us in whichever way Blizzard finds most appropriate.

2. Could Blizzard add some lighter skin tones and a slimmer model to the Night Elves males without breaking their Lore?

For the skins, to me it is a yes: there are already pink and light purple options for the Night Elves females, and a few more lighter and darker shades within the same palette will hardly hurt anybody (and are already being added for most races anyway).

As for an alternate model, more work for the art team so much less likely to happen, but we have seen Blizzard implement posture changes for different races, and even give bones/no bones options for the Undead, so it would not be unheard of.

In fact, Night Elves Highborne or not, I feel that most of us could agree that many races would benefit from the addition of a choice between a bulkier and slimmer build, as we often have very silly male casters in huge muscular bodies and elegant female warriors which seem a bit too frail for the job. :-)

3. How about the addition of specific extra customization for the Night Elves mages?

I find this highly unlikely since it would be a lot of work for a minority, but it still would not need to change the overall racial flavor. In fact, Blizzard could always unlock them through a tale explaining how rare Night Elves mages are and what a hard life they have due to the prejudice and distrust they might have to face from some druids. Not going to happen... but a person can dream, right? ;-)

4. How about allowing a player to play a Shen’dralar Highborne rather than one of their trainees?

When Shadowlands give us the new Exile's Reach starting experience the character's story won't conflict. This is exactly like the Blood or Dark Troll customization being added despite of the old Darkspear starting area, and the Wildhammer Dwarf customization being added despite of the old Ironforge starting area: a simple aesthetic choice, so that the players can roleplay their characters as they prefer.

So while which customization to add for each race is obviously totally up to Blizzard... adding some 'Highborne' customization would not break the Lore, nor would in any way require a rework of their racial identity.

Besides, for as long as the figures of Malfurion and Tyrande remain as leaders of the Night Elves it feels rather unlikely that the Arcane will be reinstated as a prominent trait, regardless of undoubtedly belonging to the Night Elven identity in its unique way since a very distant past.

[Mace]

Clearly! but the devs may not view it that way at all, as I said earlier, to them, it's all night elf stuff, whether on Nightborne or on Darnassian Highborne or whatever borne and the activity you get in the non-aligned groups, incl Illidari and Nightborne, are basically your races power on display. i.e. already done.

They should be aware, if the majority of the Night elf fan base is on the alliance side, they should come down from that birds eye vantage point of view and put themselves in our shoes. It matters to us that our night elves can play the and look the part of their Highborne, and it matters to us that we have nice looking cities, not just ruins, and that the arcane side of ours is as prominent. That our race isn't always losing, always dying, always been beaten, and always being stripped of their key features.


From a fan's point of view
1. Nelves lost immortality
2. NElves lost an entire civilization (pre-sundering)
3. Nelves lost World Tree
4. NElves lost Well of Eternity use
5. NElves lost every fight against BELves and horde races in game
6. Nelves got nearly wiped out

Notice a trend? then
1. Nelves nicest parts are given to the horde, not the races biggest fans, with no replacement or effort to show for them
2. NElves most powerful wielders and fighters - Moonguard, Nightborne, Farondis and Illidari not affliated with playable Nelf faction
3. NElves replaced mostly by humans on alliance for NElf related stuff (e.g. Naz'jatar
4. NElves given token warfront that is supposed to make up for points 1-6 … really?


Understand why they feel like they do now? Anyway, it's an unusual amount of resistance for an aspect Night elves have and should have. Even if you don't believe so, at least understand the desire for their toons to look better and fit the lore group they are playing as better.