So how do you think Ally and Horde will go back to hating each other?

[VladlTutushkin]

As I mentioned, genocide requires deliberate and systematic extermination of a sect of people. She didn't go into it saying "I'm gonna make sure I wipe every single one of them off the map." She burned the tree as a way to try and demoralize the nelves, not drive them to extinction.

Here's the definition of genocide for your convenience. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/genocide?s=t

It resulted in them losing around 1/3 of their entire population. Population that cannot reproduce as quickly as other races, and Turande even says that. Basically Stlvanas sent them into a decline/extinction spiral with Burning. And her intention (as we learn from pre-Shadowlands stuff) was always to burn the Tree and kill as many as possible so she WANTED to wipe them out. Its genocide.

[MrSaggins]

Ally world police vs Horde freedom oriented

[Queen of Hamsters]

To be honest, I was intrigued by the prospect of the BfA war being started by a third party, kinda a "Rogue Nation"-type situation by the Twilight's Hammer or similar.

If they absolutely have to go down this route again, and I'm sure they will, I'd like there to be actual twists and turns and clever use of player outrage, rather than hinting at 1 thing to mitigate what players already guessed, only for it all to be confirmed in an anti-climax for the history books.

[TheRevenantHero]

"Oh shit, he pointed out my headcanon, better use some other accusations!" because you have NOTHING to back this flight of fancy that Teldrassil was an oopsy moment. We hear over and over the Lich Queen is this tactical genius, and you're claiming she's too stupid to realize Teldrassil was inhabited so that burning it would kill thousands? And you have the gall to accuse anyone else of fanfiction?

- Taurajo. Soldiers disobeying orders and even then left a path to what they thought was safety. Still not right.

- Stormheim. Anduin is not emperor, Genn does not owe him fealty. Not treason. War crime is pretty dodgy too. Misuse of resources, let his personal vendetta get in the way, hell yes.

- Jaina, right understanding of Blood Elf betrayal, wrong action.

- Orc slaves. Source?

- Kinda hard to capture someone determined to fight to the death, complete with his buddy the death demigod. By the way, since the Alliance version of that fight is canon, Genn offered him the chance to surrender. Dazar'alor was pointless bullshit based on them wanting to showcase their new city.

- Zandalari citizens. Do you have this same energy when you think about Brennadam, which was nothing but civilians? There's a LARGE difference between unavoidable casualties and deliberately targeting them.

Oh so size is what matters then. Great, now you can understand me talking about scope. Still, your fellow Hordies are going to be pissed at you, since that's not the official stance, namely Theramore helping the Alliance. Hey looky there, me pointing out something that doesn't help my side! Must be more of my fanfiction to look better... somehow.

Let's see, Gilneas blighted into a wasteland, Vale of Eternal Blossoms completely ruined, Southshore blighted (hey, you use a smaller place in Taurajo), Ashenvale and Darkshore both had all civilians murdered and the land despoiled, Stonetalon had a peaceful druid town bombed off the map (still waiting on the Horde to make reparations), Brennadam was a civilian farmers' town.

You'd lose that bet, provided they didn't use typical Horde atrocities in doing so.

And Hordies are pure and objective, right? Never hear excuses from them over what the Horde has done? Fucking please. Hordies point out their perspective of their faction's acts, it's fine. Alliance fans point out their perspective of their faction's acts, it's "fanfiction" and "trying to look better". Hypocrite.

I'm not even going to bother refuting your points because your language here thoroughly shows me you are incapable of seeing anything the Alliance does as wrong and the Horde is just the ultimate evil on Azeroth. It truly is impossible talking to Alliance fans about this topic because they will never view anything the Alliance does as wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Gilneas (entire city nuked with chemical weapons), Southshore, and the Elven civilian school in Stonetalon. And no, this isn't the full list, these are just three examples that came to mind in the span of a total of 5 seconds.

Also, the Alliance invaded Dazar'alor after the Zandalari had already declared war on the Alliance back in Cataclysm and then proceeded to aid the Horde in their assaults into Tiragarde Sound. Finally, Theramore only became an enemy of the Horde only after Garrosh vowed he would conquer the world for the Horde.

I guess since Alliance fans are allowed to use Garrosh as an excuse for the Horde being evil in attacking certain places, I can start using Garithos and Arthas as examples for speaking about heinous acts the Alliance has committed. It's only fair.

[Nefarious Tea]

It'll be some fantastically idiotic reason that makes both factions look like absolute retards in the face of the old gods or void lords or whatever.

Just like every over goddamn expansion where they try to sell faction conflict. It's stupid.

[Utrrabbit]

Its not a trope when its literally the basis for your game.

If people dont like it they can play minesweeper or shut up.

[JacobusRex]

So how do you think Ally and Horde will go back to hating each other?

Does it matter? In the end it will be the same rehashed shit in a different metaphorical wrapper. So long as Hazzikostas is in charge, WoW story will continue to be brown puke-slime in the gutter. In fact, why do you care about the lore at all? It makes 0 sense.

[naabu]

Tyrande and Genn

[Feanoro]

I'm not even going to bother refuting your points because your language here thoroughly shows me you are incapable of seeing anything the Alliance does as wrong and the Horde is just the ultimate evil on Azeroth. It truly is impossible talking to Alliance fans about this topic because they will never view anything the Alliance does as wrong.

So let me see, I agreed most of your examples were wrongdoing, pointed out some nuance beyond "X good. Y bad. Oogah!" and yet you post this. You're not interested in talking to Alliance fans, you're not interested in understanding that the game has two perspectives, you're interested in pushing your bigotry towards real people over a damn game.

[Varodoc]

I'm not even going to bother refuting your points because your language here thoroughly shows me you are incapable of seeing anything the Alliance does as wrong and the Horde is just the ultimate evil on Azeroth. It truly is impossible talking to Alliance fans about this topic because they will never view anything the Alliance does as wrong.

- - - Updated - - -



I guess since Alliance fans are allowed to use Garrosh as an excuse for the Horde being evil in attacking certain places, I can start using Garithos and Arthas as examples for speaking about heinous acts the Alliance has committed. It's only fair.

You can use Garithos, he didn't really do anything heinous anyway. If you are going to use Arthas, know that the Horde is equally guilty of his actions since he was from Lordaeron and the majority of people frmo Lordaeron are in the Horde.

[TheRevenantHero]

You can use Garithos, he didn't really do anything heinous anyway. If you are going to use Arthas, know that the Horde is equally guilty of his actions since he was from Lordaeron and the majority of people frmo Lordaeron are in the Horde.

Oh ok so Garithos attempting to genocide the entire quel'dorei population isn't heinous then? And your logic regarding Arthas is mental gymnastics.

- - - Updated - - -

So let me see, I agreed most of your examples were wrongdoing, pointed out some nuance beyond "X good. Y bad. Oogah!" and yet you post this. You're not interested in talking to Alliance fans, you're not interested in understanding that the game has two perspectives, you're interested in pushing your bigotry towards real people over a damn game.

My bigotry? You use that word but I don't think it means what you thinks it means.

[ls-]

While reminiscing about past days of honour, glory, and being high/drunk on demon blood, some prominent orc character will decide that it's time to make the Horde great again by drowning the world in blood of the Alliance.

[Sigxy]

"Misunderstandings".

[Feanoro]

My bigotry? You use that word but I don't think it means what you thinks it means.

When you say things like "You can't talk to any Alliance players" and utterly refuse to engage in discussion, even with me agreeing but pointing out perspective/nuances (you know, like both sides should be doing?), in favor of making ugly generalizations about a group of people, yeah that qualifies as bigotry. Here's a definition for you:

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

[wargone]

Like always, the Horde gets the urge to shed blood and starts killing innocents thus triggers another war.

pretty much this. that been the case the last 2 times.

[Makabreska]

I don't really see much of that "love" you have been talking about. I think we won't have any new explosions of hatred, just an uneasy armistice and a lot of tensions.

[Varodoc]

Oh ok so Garithos attempting to genocide the entire quel'dorei population isn't heinous then? And your logic regarding Arthas is mental gymnastics.

- - - Updated - - -



My bigotry? You use that word but I don't think it means what you thinks it means.

Garithos never attempted to genocide the Sin'dorei, unless you are referring to that secret mission where he tries to stop Kael'thas from escaping. That happened after Kael'thas made a deal with a twisted villain without Garithos' approval, and it wasn't the entire Sin'dorei population but only a fraction of it.

Blaming a country two subcontinents away for the actions of someone coming from a completely different nation isn't mental gymnastics?

[Feanoro]

pretty much this. that been the case the last 2 times.

If I recall correctly, Sylvanas even lampshaded it with a speech about in the aftermath of Argus, the Horde would grow restless and want blood, so she'd give it to them.

[The Butt Witch]

Oh I'm sure that sooner or later the Horde will get another asshole for a leader, and then nuke some Alliance city, prompting the Horde to ask themselves "Are we the bad guys?" (Yes), then some orcs will cry that this isn't honorable or some shit, as if Horde honor was a real thing, and then everybody teams up and stomps the asshole. Rinse and repeat.
OR
It will be just like WoD where even a regular Horde leader will just break a truce because...reasons.

[wargone]

If I recall correctly, Sylvanas even lampshaded it with a speech about in the aftermath of Argus, the Horde would grow restless and want blood, so she'd give it to them.

yea. but there is just 2 things wrong with the that.
1: the speed, they did not have time to "grow" anything
2:it done from sylvanas point of view which is all about blood for the blood gods sooo.