PVP ruined PVE

[Thelyron]

PvP destroys everything it is inserted in.

[Ishayu]

The GCD feels bad because you feel like you're pressing a button that isn't fun. It's a button that makes whatever follow it have bigger numbers, but since the numbers are so big anyway, it's kindda hard to notice.

Thus you get this very obvious "hole" in your rotation.

The perfect solution that makes PvP better and solves the problem in PvE is to just remove the spell and finding more interesting ways to let players burst in both PvE and PvP.

[Craaazyyy]

False. Its a fact that changes to PvE was made because they had to fix something for PvP. Big difference. Now with the fixes for how powerful abilities are, how much main stats etc can be reduced for PvP this became better when they started it in Legion. Now they don't have to fix stuff for PvE as much because stuff is too powerful or too weak in PvP. Before they always had to do that.

they were changing the way things worked in pvp way before legion.. it's just that before legion they didn't have pvp specific abilities

and it's not false, 99% of all the changes they've ever made to the game were pve changes primarily

[Doffen]

they were changing the way things worked in pve way before legion.. it's just that before legion they didn't have pvp specific abilities

and it's not false, 99% of all the changes they've ever made to the game were pve changes primarily

Because of PvP....

[Wildpantz]

As a prot pally and dh tank/dps i honestly dont ever think about gcd. Most of the gcd was changed back anyway wasnt it

[Craaazyyy]

Because of PvP....

??? /10chars

oh yeah, instead of pve i meant to type PVP

[Doffen]

??? /10chars

oh yeah, instead of pve i meant to type PVP

Oh you meant like me that changes in PvE is because of PvP? *confused*

[Craaazyyy]

Oh you meant like me that changes in PvE is because of PvP? *confused*

no, i meant that they were already changing the way things were working specifically in pvp(like when abilities work differently or do different amounts of damage in pvp compared to pve) before legion

[Doffen]

no, i meant that they were already changing the way things were working specifically in pvp(like when abilities work differently or do different amounts of damage in pvp compared to pve) before legion

Ah like that. Okay, when did that start? I didn't do much PvP in MoP and WoD, but I remember it got a lot more focus in Legion, but maybe I think of WoD. I agree with what you wrote in another thread that PvP in MoP was boring af, everyone did the same things, no niche whatsoever. So I barely did any. The pvp talents coming in Legion changed a bit on it's own, but I must be wrong with the other change then.

I know that back in the day like vanilla to WotLK we got tons of changes in PvE because classes were broken, bad or some abilities was too good or too bad in PvP so they changed it, effectively changed how classes worked in PvE. This is what I mean with how PvP effected PvE. But then I come with the point of seeing it the other way, for a PvP'er it must feel the opposite, I can understand. But changes in PvE came a lot because of PvP, especially back in the day when we didn't have it like we have now.

[rrayy]

Elitists ruined the game, top elitist now game-director. 1+1=2

/thread

No remotely close to true. OYu hating hte game doesn't make game devs elitist.

[Sanguinerd]

No remotely close to true. OYu hating hte game doesn't make game devs elitist.

i dont hate the game or the devs, i strongly dislike their incessant need to make everything competitive though

competition breeds elitism

[Thage]

It has been like that since Cata, you know. Because stronger classes = no problem in PVE, cuz Blizzard could simply increase boss HP/dmg, but one-shots in PVP. Stronger healers? No problems in PVE, cuz Blizzard could simply increase incoming dmg, but immortal healers in PVP. Same for tanks. Etc. PVE - no matter, how many buttons you have, cuz PVE is about pressing them at right moment or in right order. PVP - more simple class mechanics = win. That's why 3-button style specs were so popular back in that time, when not all classes were 3-button style. So Blizzard simply decided to turn all specs into 3-button style ones in order to make them equally popular.

It's been like this for years. Back in BC hunters would go from op to useless thanks to arena balancing. Let's not get started on shamans.

[rrayy]

i dont hate the game or the devs, i strongly dislike their incessant need to make everything competitive though

competition breeds elitism

Nothing you said makes them elitist. And you obviously hate them because they don't solely cater the game to you.

[Sanguinerd]

Nothing you said makes them elitist. And you obviously hate them because they don't solely cater the game to you.

you use the word hate alot, i doubt you know what it means

also im not saying ALL the devs are elitist, just Ion

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Funny because WOW starts to lose subs when they tune the game for grandmas. Guess Ghostcrawler was right all along.

Casuals can like depth. The two aren't mutually exclusive like it was commonly thought around MoP-WoD.

[Luxeley]

The problem isn't pvp, the problem is Blizzard's utterly clueless take of pvp. They implemented a terrible solution to an on-going problem. GCD changes didn't fix pvp by any stretch of anyone's imagination. The problem with pvp is overall mobility of most melee classes. This sweeping change in melee mobility started with the addition of Monks and reached overdrive with the addition of DH's and then other melee classes needed changes to keep up. Anything less than a 70% snare is useless for ranged in Pvp, but that wasn't the case prior to MOP. Idk what the solution is because less melee mobility isn't fair game play either. But what I do know is that the GCD changes didn't help Pvp that much at all.

[Niroshi]

Do you even read back whatever you type mate?

PvP and PvE are linked once again ever since templates were removed. If you think otherwise, you don't have a grasp of the concepts and how they rely on each other. Class balance still takes into account both PvE and PvP. The only thing they do separately balance wise in PvP is the tuning, the classes still play the same baseline in all modes.

Classes playing the same isn't really relevant here, they've always played the same in both modes with the sole exception of minor set bonuses way back in the day. Beyond that the topic was that PvP negatively impacts PvE, but gearing purposes it's slanted against PvP which gives lower rewards than most aspects of PvE play. Tuning is a major factor in balance between the modes and largely avoids the huge nerfs we used to see in the past for PvE. These nerfs were the primary way PvP used to hurt PvE.

The GCD change was not for MDI. Ion literally said in one of his dev QnAs that it was to remove the impact of silly macros that players were creating to blow cds in different combinations that was taking away from real decision making. Unfortunately, it backfired because slowing GCD's down was never the right solution given how many "setup" type classes/specs there are in the game. Their approach should've been different to tackle the problem as they claimed it to be.

I said probably for the MDi as it's their big push, I'm not saying definitively it was. Putting a bunch of CDs into one button makes it harder to see what players are doing in a viewing environment. The quoted reason you stated doesn't even contradict what I said.

Gearing is not completely "out of whack" as you put it. The whole "i'm forced to do M+ if i raid or vice versa" situation only applies to the top 1-2% of the wow population at end-game. At that point it's a matter of perspective, compulsion and self-control rather than "the game is broken". It is ENTIRELY possible to raid without setting foot into M+, it is ENTIRELY possible to do M+ without setting foot into raids. It is also ENTIRELY possible to do high m+ or mythic raiding without touching the other piece of content, but you'll reach those high levels slightly slower, is all. It is ENTIRELY your prerogative to play other forms of PvE content in the game or sometimes even PvP to earn those Elite pieces early in a patch because you want to speed up your own timeline in comparison to others. You're the ones driving each other to do the stuff you don't need to do. It's kind of ironic how most 'hardcore' players who visit forums such as this miss such basic points or just choose to willfully ignore them when making their arguments.

Gearing is absolutely fucked today. Mythic+ has essentially handed free gear to pretty much everybody that can be bothered to interact with the system, and it's not reliant on doing hard content since M+10 is pie. 8.3 helps to fix this a bit while rewarding you even more for doing easier content. Mythic+ is infinitely repeatable and by its very nature severely drowns out nearly every other aspect of end game gearing. It's not the track of progression it was intended to be, it's a core part of end game gearing and it entirely invalidates raiding (sans a few Trinkets) below Mythic.

I play on 6 characters, all ilv 440-ish and 1.1k-1.2kish rio scores. I don't enter raids on all except one of those characters, and even that just to get curve. I do ALL my gearing in M+. I never feel like i'm missing out on anything because I'm not raiding. Stuff like coral and inkpod trinkets are nice-to-haves, sure, but must-haves? Nope, not for me. And guess what, 98% of the game's population sees it that way too. I still enjoy the game, getting a different perspective of M+ affixes every week on multiple classes/specs/roles. But apparently, according to hardcore players i'm not supposed to be enjoying my time doing so? Yeah, sure.

I don't really begrudge you any of this. If this is what you're enjoying then cool, my beef is with the effect M+ has had on raiding. I'm not even saying M+ needs to actually be ruined or anything, it might be that raiding needs to be revamped.

Also, "No challenge left in anything" ? Really? If i was to go through your armory and Rio, would I see 20+ keystone levels + CE + 2.3k+ CR on your characters?
What other challenge do you want outside of ALL the end-game content? First complete what's in front of you and then talk about other challenges. If anything, WoW players are spoiled for choice. It's OK not to have content in the game that would keep you hooked for more than 5-6 hours at a stretch. If you want more challenge outside those hours, create your own. Game Designers these days are not paid to design mechanics and gameplay to hook players for Hours on end. They're paid to hook players in for a reasonable amount of time and still drag the cash out of you. That's just the reality of the industry as a whole. Best come to terms with it real quick.

Dunno how you're going to try to ding me at the start of your post for not re-reading what I typed when you can't be bothered to read what I typed to begin with.

"and outside of Mythic raiding and very high M+ keys there is no challenge left in anything"

Cool flex though.

It's people like you who are also already trashing the Tower of The Damned from shadowlands before the shit is even out for alpha testing......

I've straight up never criticized the tower my dude. I think it's a great idea and I'm really hopeful for it, as I am for most of Shadowlands. No point in shadowboxing 'mate'.

[Syegfryed]

pve ruined pve

[LolFrank]

Don't know if others share the same opinion, but I think the GCD change is game breaking for PVE. I understand if they only applied it to PVP, but to me, the overall effect it's been having on the game is too big to simply accept as a "balancing act". The gameplay itself feels broken. Why not just apply it to PVP only? Win win.

You literally watched Bellular's last video and immediately rushed over here to make a forum post about one of his points stating that it's your own conjured up opinion.

[Soon-TM]

the GCD change is the single worst thing that has been implemented into the game, even worse than LFR (but not by much, that game mode is just cancer)

At least, LFR can be safely ignored, while the GCD is there on your toes every. Single. Moment of your gameplay.