Ny'alotha, The Waking City World First Race

[AnotherJaggens]

You wanted to casually raid with friends but a change to a mythic end boss that will not even be seen by "casuals" made you change your mind? Even if "casual" means "still getting cutting edge", boss will be fixed and nerfed by then, since it will be months. All these bugs and changes affect less than a hundred people, they have zero impact on "casual raiding".

Probably not even CE, definitely no Hall of Fame anymore. Even if I never see this state, giving Blizzard money is encouraging them to continue their "fuck it this will do" design philosophy.

[Xath]

And they ignored that first gate entirely at some point. This is not me "misunderstanding" it, it's Blizzard not making sure that people actually had to core mechanic of a fight and then hastily fixing it, breaking couple other things in the process. Also, people expecting more from this fight than just burning a huge mass of hitpoints while doing the exact same thing for minutes.And was that actually new RP or the old one? Maybe it was the kill speech or something else entirely. As far as proof goes, it's very flimsy.

This was from today I think it was new rp. But can't be absolutely sure. This was the last pull before the boss suddenly started not shielding and gate was no longer an interactable object.

https://www.twitch.tv/limit_maximum/...24hr&sort=time

This is a pull after

https://www.twitch.tv/limit_maximum/...e=7d&sort=time

Notice how the gate isn't an actual object and doesn't highlight when a mouse is moved over it like it did in the first clip.

It's almost certain there was meant to be another secret phase and probably an lk style burn but they took it out likely because it didn't work.

[-aiko-]

It really does seem like there was supposed to be something around that 25% mark...this whole situation is just weird. In fact this whole patch just screams missed potential and unfinished shit.

Corruption gear being broken is definitely the worst of it though. Once all is said and done, this race is going to come down to the guilds who could afford to get the right corrupted gear and those who couldn't. My guild went more casual this tier, due to burnout from EP, so we only raid 2 nights a week. It was pretty disheartening to struggle on Wrathion (about 15 pulls for us) because only a few of us won the corruption lottery.

And I mean, despite being more casual we still have many players who want to be competitive. Not having literally ~10-15% dps in some cases because we didn't get the right corruption is so frustrating.


Uh...vent over. Go Pieces! Sneak up from the shadows and snatch this one up. Or just hurry up and kill it tomorrow, Limit.

[Woobels]

I said this waaay earlier in the thread but I doubt many people worked on this raid, the whole thing looks like it had a small budget even if you forget about the atrocious cutscene at the end etc.

[Ghostile]

I said this waaay earlier in the thread but I doubt many people worked on this raid, the whole thing looks like it had a small budget even if you forget about the atrocious cutscene at the end etc.

Care to elaborate?

[Xath]

I think a lot of us just don't believe Blizz at this point. It just made sense for there to be a second part of the secret phase. They probably are just not capable of making it work so they decided this was less of a shitshow?

Seriously though, if I was Limit I was pissed. Such an excellent show for this entire raid only to end up at this disaster of a boss? They'll still most likely get the kill but if method or pieces snatches it it will be disgusting

There is also another option besides it just not working it wouldn't shock me if the final phase required 4 necks or something to engage it and blizzard realized that they overtuned the sanity drain and there was no way that a guild would be able to activate it but I would bet on it just being broken before that.

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Care to elaborate?

It's straight up ripped from return of the king with the music having just enough notes takes out to not be a copyright violation. Also you see the original nzoth body behind the eternal palace waterfall and it was originally a massive massive zone that pretty much got chopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHaQyYhnoUM

It was twice the size of nazjatar it's very likely what we got isn't what was originally intended. It's about 2 minutes into the video

[Ghostile]

There is also another option besides it just not working it wouldn't shock me if the final phase required 4 necks or something to engage it and blizzard realized that they overtuned the sanity drain and there was no way that a guild would be able to activate it but I would bet on it just being broken before that.

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It's straight up ripped from return of the king with the music having just enough notes takes out to not be a copyright violation. Also you see the original nzoth body behind the eternal palace waterfall and it was originally a massive massive zone that pretty much got chopped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHaQyYhnoUM

It was twice the size of nazjatar it's very likely what we got isn't what was originally intended. It's about 2 minutes into the video

Isn't that Nzoth stuff literally used in the raid?

[Yunyuns]

Method will wake up knowing they just have to make the perfect pull to burst the boss and they showed all along this expac that they are the best at that.

I still hope for a Method kill even if Limit deserves it a lot (and I say that while I don't like them).

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

This last boss looks as easy (in mechanical terms) as Mannoroth in Warlords... and he was a joke.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Method will wake up knowing they just have to make the perfect pull to burst the boss and they showed all along this expac that they are the best at that.

I still hope for a Method kill even if Limit deserves it a lot (and I say that while I don't like them).

Whoever kills it first deserves it.
Limit bash their head against the wall, that's always their strategy and why they get the early (easier) bosses down fast. Call it the "sprint strategy."
Method go about it in a slow and steady, methodically, strategy. That's why Method are slower on the early bosses and do split runs as soon as they can, yes that costs them some of the first kills on early bosses but they are in it for the long run ...call it the "marathon strategy".

Or you know... "the rabbit and the turtle"

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That sounds really fanboyish. Can we really dispute that Limit outperformed everyone in this tier?

Barcelona (football) can dominate the game and have the biggest chances to score ever... but if the other team scores one goal and Barcelona doesn't score any... who won?

[Xath]

Isn't that Nzoth stuff literally used in the raid?

Nah the skeleton really isn't. Some pieces were used as foundation but the majority weren't. What most likely was intended to happen is the statue topples and the old god minions invade a "freed" nazjatar when 8.3 drops then we progress through an argus style zone until we unlock the raid which is the final assault in 8.3.5 this was likely scrapped as development on bfa was massively scaled down and focus was hardshifted to shadowlands. Think about how big nazjatar is even with a flying mount then imagine a zone twice that big. That would have been a fitting end to the expansion for all players not just raiders it would be a tangible effect on the world from nzoth being freed. I also think the fury and nzoth fights were originally combined but they realized it would be a god awful fight of 20 plus mins.

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This last boss looks as easy (in mechanical terms) as Mannoroth in Warlords... and he was a joke.

I mean this is absolutely not an easy boss in terms of mechanics it just doesn't feel epic in scope compared to other end of expansion end bosses especially for one that we have building to for multiple expansions. The puddle placement, beams, paranoia, push/pull and add casts seem easy on your own then you realize they can and do sync up which is where the difficulty of the fight comes from. You also have limited sanity and aoe restore that can only be used once per player and forces grouping. While the hearrt phase seems quite easy in comparison it forces burning a ton of necks making the sanity gate a significant issue and positioning paramount. There is a reason this looks to be a 300 pull boss without the 4th phase that "totally didn't ever exist"

[Yunyuns]

That sounds really fanboyish. Can we really dispute that Limit outperformed everyone in this tier?

Is it now illegal to have a favorite team ?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Nah the skeleton really isn't. Some pieces were used as foundation but the majority weren't. What most likely was intended to happen is the statue topples and the old god minions invade a "freed" nazjatar when 8.3 drops then we progress through an argus style zone until we unlock the raid which is the final assault in 8.3.5 this was likely scrapped as development on bfa was massively scaled down and focus was hardshifted to shadowlands. Think about how big nazjatar is even with a flying mount then imagine a zone twice that big. That would have been a fitting end to the expansion for all players not just raiders it would be a tangible effect on the world from nzoth being freed. I also think the fury and nzoth fights were originally combined but they realized it would be a god awful fight of 20 plus mins.

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I mean this is absolutely not an easy boss in terms of mechanics it just doesn't feel epic in scope compared to other end of expansion end bosses especially for one that we have building to for multiple expansions. The puddle placement, beams, paranoia, push/pull and add casts seem easy on your own then you realize they can and do sync up which is where the difficulty of the fight comes from. You also have limited sanity and aoe restore that can only be used once per player and forces grouping. While the hearrt phase seems quite easy in comparison it forces burning a ton of necks making the sanity gate a significant issue and positioning paramount. There is a reason this looks to be a 300 pull boss without the 4th phase that "totally didn't ever exist"

There are two things that makes up an encounter.
Mechanics.
Numbers.

Can you honestly say that the mechanics have been hard?

[facefist]

Could raidleader that does not raid become the norm after this? Limit seems really smooth with mechanics when max is just full focusing on them. Atleast its interesting that new things are coming up, last time we had major new discovery was when Paragon started split raids.

[AnotherJaggens]

Method will wake up knowing they just have to make the perfect pull to burst the boss and they showed all along this expac that they are the best at that.

I still hope for a Method kill even if Limit deserves it a lot (and I say that while I don't like them).

They'll stack some mages probably, won't they? Limit are champions of my heart, but at this point if Method bruteforces this encounter and gets WF just to spite this disappointment of a boss I'd be on board with it.

[Ghostile]

Could raidleader that does not raid become the norm after this? Limit seems really smooth with mechanics when max is just full focusing on them. Atleast its interesting that new things are coming up, last time we had major new discovery was when Paragon started split raids.

I could see this becoming the norm for high end raiding.

Not having to dps/heal while raid leading definitely makes it more efficient.

[khabal]

I have to say, i was extremely disappointed in Method's raiding last night. Taking way too long between pulls, all those breaks, and then they call raid off??? They havent even done phase 1 consistently without silly deaths.
Meanwhile Limit were consistently hitting the chamber phase and coming out, and slowly progressing into that 25% "burn phase". I thought for sure they eventually were gonna have the perfect pull and kill it. On their 10% wipe, did they have everyone alive when they lusted + sanity?
If so, and they still only made it to 10% i can see this boss not dying until they get more gear / gets nerfed. Their dps seems insane, so if that's not enough, with the EV nerfs, the HP is gonna have to be nerfed too i think.

[Stardrift]

That sounds really fanboyish. Can we really dispute that Limit outperformed everyone in this tier?

That sounds really fanboyish.

"You're not sucking them off hard enough"

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Is it now illegal to have a favorite team ?

Apparently it is. You like the guys I HATE!! Therefore I HATE you too!

[Cren]

Well if somehow Method kills N'Zoth first that would make them best?

[Coffer]

If you like raiding and not the teams

That's a big if, actually. For many people, the personalities involved are more important than the actual competition. I'm one of those people as I'm not drawn to competitiveness but I am drawn to seeing those I like win, and I am only interested in the WF race because of Method, whom I've known from even before I first subbed to the game.

There is absolutely no denying that Limit have been stellar this tier, and they've gained my respect because of that. For me, though, support matters far more than respect. Sure, I'll feel bad for Limit if they lose because they clearly have the better raid team right now and they've basically beta tested the fight for Blizzard (and for Method as a result), but if Method loses then odds are I won't remember this race at all, or if I do it'll be a negative memory.

The only real competitive aspect I feel in this case is a level of attraction towards the underdog, which in my eyes Method have been this entire expansion as Limit, despite all their early issues, have always been the better guild in BfA. That feeling has only gotten stronger now that Limit have solved their issues, gained valuable experience and pulled well clear.