1. #20161
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I don't. But pretending that capitalism is inherently bad because it can lead to monopolies is being just as shortsighted as the mentality you claim to be against. It's hardly an all or nothing proposition. You can celebrate the good things about capitalism while working to block the bad. "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."
    I think you need to be precise: Are we referring to theoretically unmitigated capitalism (that doesn't exist anywhere in the world) or are we talking about the mixture of different elements our economic systems are comprised of, some more socially oriented than others.

    Imho, the former is very much an "all or nothing" proposition with 0 intervention from the state. It's as pure a "law of the jungle" as can be (w/o people murdering each other ofc).

  2. #20162
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I think you need to be precise: Are we referring to theoretically unmitigated capitalism (that doesn't exist anywhere in the world) or are we talking about the mixture of different elements our economic systems are comprised of, some more socially oriented than others.

    Imho, the former is very much an "all or nothing" proposition with 0 intervention from the state. It's as pure a "law of the jungle" as can be (w/o people murdering each other ofc).
    I don't think anyone is seriously a proponent of unmitigated capitalism. That's just ludicrous. People being people, no system of any significant size, whether it's economic, social, whatever, should ever be entirely without checks and balances. Period.

    That being understood, decrying capitalism because of the concept of monopolies is like suggesting that the human race is entirely flawed because a very few are megalomaniacal sociopaths.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  3. #20163
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Agreed on both points.

    Also one needs to keep in mind that monopolies are usually not willfully created by dudes twirling their mustaches. They happen naturally.
    One economic player has an idea hat hits like a truck and other players either cannot recreate the idea due to protective laws or don't have the resources / are too late to gain traction/market share.

    Important thing is that we intervene before it becomes problematic, which I believe is currently done to google?

  4. #20164
    Maybe make a new thread if you guys want to discuss capitalism and monopolies and that kind of stuff? Doesn't really belong here.

  5. #20165
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    Maybe make a new thread if you guys want to discuss capitalism and monopolies and that kind of stuff? Doesn't really belong here.
    Oh this thread occasionally ventures into politics, esp U.S. politics. It'll come back to the virus once there is something to talk about.

    In Germany we are now at 2.4% positive test rate, so things are picking up now. Politicians are already blaring for more restrictions.

  6. #20166
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    In Germany we are now at 2.4% positive test rate, so things are picking up now. Politicians are already blaring for more restrictions.
    It's getting problematic all over Europe and N. America, so 2.4% positive rate with 1.99 tested per thousand is actually lower than:
    Sweden 3.1% positive, tests per thousand 1.97
    Canada 3.8% positive, tests per thousand 1.62
    US 5.3% positive, tests per thousand 2.81
    UK 6% positive, test per thousand 3.85
    Austria 6.4% positive, tests per thousand 1.98
    France 7.5% positive, tests per thousand 2.75
    Italy 7.2% positive, tests per thousand 1.28
    Switzerland 9.7% positive, tests per thousand 1.57
    Spain 10% positive, tests per thousand 2.18
    Hungary 11% positive, tests per thousand 1
    Benelux > 12% positive, tests per thousand 1-4
    Poland 12% positive, tests per thousand 0.9
    Czech 23% positive, tests per thousand 2.26

    Denmark, Norway and Finland have lower positive rate and Denmark test 5.65 per thousand.

    The positive rate has also increased the last month in these countries, sometimes dramatically the last couple of days like in Italy, Poland and likely the US (assuming that effect is real; seems like we are headed for an expected October surprise) - except Spain that has kept steady at about 10%.

    It has stayed fairly bad in large parts of S. America (Uruguay (and Cuba) being an exception as usual), Africa, the middle-east to Myanmar (except Pakistan), Indonesia, and the Philippines.

    Argentina seems to be most positive - 70%!

    Obviously some countries don't report their numbers, and the reported ones cannot always be trusted either. And if the country and its testing is sufficiently unequal the positive rate is not meaningful.

    Globally we are likely to reach 40 million reported cases the coming day; the actual cases is likely around a billion, and WHO yesterday reported that remdesivir has none or marginal effect.

  7. #20167
    As the one doctor said about Pennsylvania's rising rates, they might be hitting a 2nd wave. But as he warned, he did say that this ain't March; policies and procedures are in place that weren't back then. And then gave the okay to open up the local stadium. (With restrictions in place)

  8. #20168
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Rapper Nuke Bizzle was arrested for COVID relief fraud, after making a video about how he committed COVID relief fraud, and put it on YouTube.

    Bizzle, whose real name is Fontrell Antonio Baines, 31, was arrested for allegedly obtaining fraudulent unemployment insurance benefits under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or the CARES Act, according to a release from the U.S. Attorney's Office.

    The release states the Bizzle allegedly applied for $1.2 million in jobless benefits and used stolen identities, according to the release.

    Bizzle is accused of exploiting a provision in the CARES Act called the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, which expands access to unemployment benefits to those who would otherwise be ineligible for the benefits. This includes self-employed workers and independent contractors, according to the release.

    An affidavit states that Baines used debit cards that had been pre-loaded with unemployment benefits from the California Employment Development Department. The cards used by Bizzle were allegedly issued in other people's names, including those who were the victims of identity theft, according to the release.

    Ninety-two debit cards were sent to an address linked to Bizzle with more than $1.2 million in fraudulently obtained benefits, the affidavit states. Bizzle and co-conspirators were able to allegedly access more than $704,000 of the benefits, according to the release.

    Prior to his arrest, Bizzle — under the usernames nukebizzle1 and nukebizzle23 — posted videos to his Instagram account and on YouTube, in which he bragged about defrauding benefits programs in a music video. In the video, he holds up a wad of envelopes from the Employment Development Department and claims he got rich by going to the bank with those envelopes — likely a reference to the debit cards that had allegedly been sent to him.

    If convicted, Bizzle could face a maximum sentence of 22 years in federal prison
    Well, if he goes to prison, at least he'll get street cred?

  9. #20169
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Well my country just got full lockdown now. If we closed borders with Croatia this would not happen AGAIN.

  10. #20170
    Romania just tightened lockdown measures and finally imposed full mask restrictions.

    About bloody time.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

    Retired <Dreamstate> Gehennas

  11. #20171
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus...s-rise-1540243

    Sweden is starting to go on lockdown as cases start spiking again.

    I guess we can conclusively say the "Great Swedish Experiment" has not been a success.

  12. #20172
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus...s-rise-1540243

    Sweden is starting to go on lockdown as cases start spiking again..
    From your own link

    "It [the latest measures] is not a lockdown but some extra recommendations might be communicated locally when a need from the regional authorities is communicated."

    If somthing shall change in Sweden the parlament have to change the law. The goverment can only give recommendations with the current laws.

  13. #20173
    Warchief Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post

    I guess we can conclusively say the "Great Swedish Experiment" has not been a success.
    Natural imunity lasts around 6 months, its impossible to hit heard imunity in that time, and after that the virus comes again.

  14. #20174
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    Natural imunity lasts around 6 months, its impossible to hit heard imunity in that time, and after that the virus comes again.
    Average natural immunity is completely unknown so far, but realistically, it's almost certainly much longer than 6 months.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  15. #20175
    Quote Originally Posted by Xjev View Post
    The stats show 126,127,489 tests have been performed in US. Wtf that's a huge number, like every one in three have done tests there? Where do people do it? I am just curious since I never had the incentive to go and perform the test. I'm more afraid to go to a test center filled with many ppl potentially carrying the virus instead of staying home while I'm feeling well.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Those are not unique tests, some people are tested multiple times and others are never tested. Most testing centers from what I know are outdoors, so you're not in enclosed rooms with people breathing the same air. If you think you have the virus, find a local testing center and get tested.

    And the US is still woefully behind in testing.

  16. #20176
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xjev View Post
    The stats show 126,127,489 tests have been performed in US. Wtf that's a huge number, like every one in three have done tests there? Where do people do it? I am just curious since I never had the incentive to go and perform the test. I'm more afraid to go to a test center filled with many ppl potentially carrying the virus instead of staying home while I'm feeling well.
    When I went to get tested, I booked an appointment online and then went through a drive-through facility. Never left my car and was in and out in 10 minutes. The result came back the following morning.

    It can vary a lot based upon where you live, of course.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #20177
    Warchief Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Average natural immunity is completely unknown so far, but realistically, it's almost certainly much longer than 6 months.
    A lot o news saying otherwise...

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w
    In March, a care-home resident in their sixties developed severe pneumonia and tested positive for the new coronavirus. The individual spent more than one month in hospital before testing negative. In July, the individual tested positive again, with milder symptoms of coughing and shortness of breath.
    EDIT:
    Found this aswell:
    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/def...ment-brief.pdf
    Last edited by Tuor; 2020-10-19 at 07:07 PM.

  18. #20178
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    That's one case. Which hasn't been peer reviewed yet. And doesn't seem indicative of most cases, as the individual had a weaker antibody response to the first infection.

    Right now this is a single anecdote, and even with more the plural of anecdote isn't data.

  19. #20179
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    A lot o news saying otherwise...
    No, it's really not.

    The median household wealth in the US is ~$100k. Do you point to Jeff Bezos and say that it should be $175b instead? No, because outliers are outliers.

    There are, so far, less than ~30? confirmed cases of reinfection in over 40 million confirmed total cases of COVID stretching back over 10 months.

    6 months is nowhere near the average duration for natural immunity, otherwise we'd have tons of cases of reinfection already.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  20. #20180
    Warchief Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    That's one case. Which hasn't been peer reviewed yet. And doesn't seem indicative of most cases, as the individual had a weaker antibody response to the first infection.

    Right now this is a single anecdote, and even with more the plural of anecdote isn't data.
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    No, it's really not.

    The median household wealth in the US is ~$100k. Do you point to Jeff Bezos and say that it should be $175b instead? No, because outliers are outliers.

    There are, so far, less than ~30? confirmed cases of reinfection in over 40 million confirmed total cases of COVID stretching back over 10 months.

    6 months is nowhere near the average duration for natural immunity, otherwise we'd have tons of cases of reinfection already.
    It's something that is slowly starting to happen. Also, imunity tests showing aswell that imunity keeps decreasing over time, and that is science working.

    Those are just the reported cases, i'm sure there is a lot more of them.

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