Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Shadowferal]

Going to be a year before I will consider taking this vaccine. No one finds it odd that something like this can be pushed across in less than a year but we can't figure out other things yet?

I'm sure plenty of people will give big pharms an apologetic pass.
Not just them...think of how many charities have become institutions, raking in billions.
If most strains of influenza are also dealt a blow, it might be worth it. But I do wonder if pharmaceuticals tried to make sure that wouldn't be the case.

[Belize]

Going to be a year before I will consider taking this vaccine. No one finds it odd that something like this can be pushed across in less than a year but we can't figure out other things yet?

You've had all of the world's best scientists working day-in, day-out to produce something that humanity has been making for over a century (vaccines).

No. I'm not surprised, they were exactly trying to cure stupidity here, a Covid vaccine is fairly simple.

[Edge-]

You've had all of the world's best scientists working day-in, day-out to produce something that humanity has been making for over a century (vaccines).

No. I'm not surprised, they were exactly trying to cure stupidity here, a Covid vaccine is fairly simple.

Especially considering they apparently had a head-start given that there are already similar vaccines out there, if I read correctly.

I mean, people are complaining/finding it fishy that we have a vaccine for this before we do for cancer and AIDS (at least elsewhere...a lot of elsewheres), because they're they're so ignorant that they believe you can vaccinate against autoimmune diseases and cell division.

[Forogil]

Especially considering they apparently had a head-start given that there are already similar vaccines out there, if I read correctly.

Debatable. They have worked on similar vaccines, but no mRNA vaccine have been previously approved for humans as far I know.
It wasn't a given that those similar vaccines would work - but it seems it worked.

The Astra-Zeneca and Russian vaccines are more similar to existing approved vaccines.

I mean, people are complaining/finding it fishy that we have a vaccine for this before we do for cancer and AIDS (at least elsewhere...a lot of elsewheres), because they're they're so ignorant that they believe you can vaccinate against autoimmune diseases and cell division.

I wouldn't say that cancer is just cell division - but that cancer is so many different diseases that expecting one cure for all of them would be odd.

As for AIDS the obvious issue is that almost no-one naturally recover, indicating that the body cannot easily fight the disease (although there might actually be a fairly ineffective vaccine).

[PhaelixWW]

I'm sure plenty of people will give big pharms an apologetic pass.
Not just them...think of how many charities have become institutions, raking in billions.
If most strains of influenza are also dealt a blow, it might be worth it. But I do wonder if pharmaceuticals tried to make sure that wouldn't be the case.

mRNA vaccines have the chance to be game-changing, and that definitely bodes well for future flu seasons. Hopefully everyone will be able to just take this as a win.

[Edge-]

https://www.newsweek.com/joni-ernst-...piracy-1556450

Now that the vaccine is rolling out, politicians that spend the past 9 months dismissing, downplaying, and spreading conspiracy theories about the virus are getting the vaccine.

If they were principled, they'd refuse to take a fake vaccine for a fake virus that's not a big deal anyways.

Seriously, these fucks should be literally the last people to get the vaccine. And the bullshit going on at Stanford with executives and senior doctors who either don't see covid patients or see only a few covid patients a day is horse shit, and those nurses that are protesting are rightfully pissed. They should be getting the vaccine first since they're the ones spending the most time interacting with covid patients and are at the highest risk.

This was a sadly predictable outcome, but it's still fucking infuriating.

[Granyala]

Going to be a year before I will consider taking this vaccine. No one finds it odd that something like this can be pushed across in less than a year but we can't figure out other things yet?

Well to be fair: a crapton of money, man hours and talent was thrown at it, so that had to accelerate something.

Also, the whole bureaucracy was cut short.

What was unfortunately also cut short were the studies. Phase III is still running IIRC, so there is some remaining risk that is higher than usual.

[Forogil]

Well to be fair: a crapton of money, man hours and talent was thrown at it, so that had to accelerate something.

It certainly reduced the delays, and cut red tape. Normally you first make study, then analyze that, get approval, and then finally build manufacturing capacity and finally make the vaccine. This time they began building factories - and even making the vaccine during the trials. If the vaccine failed it would only be money down the drain - but just a minor cost some hundred millions or so.

There were also bad reason it was so fast; they had a cut-off for the number of infected in the study - and as the disease surged they reached that number faster.

Also, the whole bureaucracy was cut short.

True, FDA review normally takes 6-10 months I've heard; after the study is concluded - this time FDA (and similar ones) began looking through parts of the study while it was running and that time was cut to 3 weeks.

What was unfortunately also cut short were the studies. Phase III is still running IIRC, so there is some remaining risk that is higher than usual.

True, but it would be a lot worse if they stopped the study. There are also normally phase IV studies after approval.

[Zantos]

Especially considering they apparently had a head-start given that there are already similar vaccines out there, if I read correctly.

I mean, people are complaining/finding it fishy that we have a vaccine for this before we do for cancer and AIDS (at least elsewhere...a lot of elsewheres), because they're they're so ignorant that they believe you can vaccinate against autoimmune diseases and cell division.

Honestly, they have never had a vaccine for this before that was approved for field use. They had been trying for the past 17 years to make one for Sars as well as 10 years for MERS with no success.

I have seen a few people on facebook complaining about it for all kinds of reasons. Micro chips being one.

My reason is a bit more logical then that. For one, we don't fully know how it will interact with other medications, nor how it will impact every group out there, such as children under the age of 16 or pregnant women. The second thing that I am more concerned about is the fact that we don't know what long term effects it may or may not have. We really don't even know a lot about this vaccine as a whole. The data just isn't there. Not a smaller size then they would like, a complete absence of it because they haven't had the chance to create it or test it.

Personally, this is the reasoning I have seen most often for not wanting it. Its lack of testing in a multitude of important areas that leads to it being very unknown. At that point, its a choice between try it and hope nothing goes bad, or try it and hope that what ever does go bad is able to be fixed and or isn't too damaging.

[Zan15]

It certainly reduced the delays, and cut red tape. Normally you first make study, then analyze that, get approval, and then finally build manufacturing capacity and finally make the vaccine. This time they began building factories - and even making the vaccine during the trials. If the vaccine failed it would only be money down the drain - but just a minor cost some hundred millions or so.

There were also bad reason it was so fast; they had a cut-off for the number of infected in the study - and as the disease surged they reached that number faster.


True, FDA review normally takes 6-10 months I've heard; after the study is concluded - this time FDA (and similar ones) began looking through parts of the study while it was running and that time was cut to 3 weeks.


True, but it would be a lot worse if they stopped the study. There are also normally phase IV studies after approval.

It only takes the FDA that long because of the backlog and caselog of approvals and reviews they have.
If you vault it to the front of the line and put "everyone" on it you would have the result you had

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.newsweek.com/joni-ernst-...piracy-1556450

Now that the vaccine is rolling out, politicians that spend the past 9 months dismissing, downplaying, and spreading conspiracy theories about the virus are getting the vaccine.

If they were principled, they'd refuse to take a fake vaccine for a fake virus that's not a big deal anyways.

Seriously, these fucks should be literally the last people to get the vaccine. And the bullshit going on at Stanford with executives and senior doctors who either don't see covid patients or see only a few covid patients a day is horse shit, and those nurses that are protesting are rightfully pissed. They should be getting the vaccine first since they're the ones spending the most time interacting with covid patients and are at the highest risk.

This was a sadly predictable outcome, but it's still fucking infuriating.

When the owner of Fox News gets a vaccine before 99.9% of the population and brags about it, you know this entire world is fucked up.

[Shadowferal]

Now that the vaccine is rolling out, politicians that spend the past 9 months dismissing, downplaying, and spreading conspiracy theories about the virus are getting the vaccine.

If they were principled, they'd refuse to take a fake vaccine for a fake virus that's not a big deal anyways.

Some are refusing...

Growing number of lawmakers decline early access to COVID-19 vaccine

A handful of lawmakers in both parties, including Reps. Brian Mast (R-Fla.), Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii), Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.), Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and incoming Rep.-elect Nancy Mace (R-S.C.), all made a point of announcing they would refuse a vaccine before all frontline health care workers and seniors get inoculated.
Most other lawmakers are getting their first of two doses of the vaccine and urging others to follow suit, arguing it's necessary to ensure continuity of government in the pandemic.

But some are wary of the optics of representatives getting priority access to a vaccine and would rather wait until it's widely available to the public.

"I'm not saying that I have any type of aversion to it. It's just a personal stance that if you're a leader, you eat last," Mast told The Hill.
-----
And there's the other argument;
----

Beyer, 70, was among the first rank-and-file members of Congress to receive a vaccine on Friday. He reported no side effects and said he wanted to set an example for others.

"I really want to make sure we're setting the right example. That we're doing everything we can to encourage people to get the vaccine. First, for their health, and second, for the herd immunity of the country," Beyer said.

Rank-and-file lawmakers in both parties have followed suit. Progressive superstar Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), 31, posted several tweets describing the vaccination experience to her nearly 11 million Twitter followers and explaining how the vaccine works.

But one of her closest allies - Omar, whose father died from COVID-19 this year - called it "shameful" that members of Congress were being prioritized for vaccination.

"It would make sense if it was age, but unfortunately it's of importance and it's shameful. We are not more important [than] frontline workers, teachers etc. who are making sacrifices everyday. Which is why I won't take it. People who need it most, should get it. Full stop," Omar tweeted.

Gabbard, who is retiring and will no longer be a member of Congress after Jan. 3, called on her colleagues under the age of 65 to wait to get vaccinated until seniors get it.

"I had planned to get the vaccine but will now stand in solidarity with our seniors by not doing so until THEY can. I urge my colleagues who are under 65 and healthy to join me," Gabbard tweeted on Monday.

And Paul, who tested positive for COVID-19 earlier this year, tweeted on Monday that it is "inappropriate for me - who has already gotten the virus/has immunity - to get in front of elderly/healthcare workers."

[Omega10]

Some are refusing...

Growing number of lawmakers decline early access to COVID-19 vaccine

A handful of lawmakers in both parties, including Reps. Brian Mast (R-Fla.), Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii), Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.), Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and incoming Rep.-elect Nancy Mace (R-S.C.), all made a point of announcing they would refuse a vaccine before all frontline health care workers and seniors get inoculated.
Most other lawmakers are getting their first of two doses of the vaccine and urging others to follow suit, arguing it's necessary to ensure continuity of government in the pandemic.

But some are wary of the optics of representatives getting priority access to a vaccine and would rather wait until it's widely available to the public.

"I'm not saying that I have any type of aversion to it. It's just a personal stance that if you're a leader, you eat last," Mast told The Hill.
-----
And there's the other argument;
----

Beyer, 70, was among the first rank-and-file members of Congress to receive a vaccine on Friday. He reported no side effects and said he wanted to set an example for others.

"I really want to make sure we're setting the right example. That we're doing everything we can to encourage people to get the vaccine. First, for their health, and second, for the herd immunity of the country," Beyer said.

Rank-and-file lawmakers in both parties have followed suit. Progressive superstar Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), 31, posted several tweets describing the vaccination experience to her nearly 11 million Twitter followers and explaining how the vaccine works.

But one of her closest allies - Omar, whose father died from COVID-19 this year - called it "shameful" that members of Congress were being prioritized for vaccination.

"It would make sense if it was age, but unfortunately it's of importance and it's shameful. We are not more important [than] frontline workers, teachers etc. who are making sacrifices everyday. Which is why I won't take it. People who need it most, should get it. Full stop," Omar tweeted.

Gabbard, who is retiring and will no longer be a member of Congress after Jan. 3, called on her colleagues under the age of 65 to wait to get vaccinated until seniors get it.

"I had planned to get the vaccine but will now stand in solidarity with our seniors by not doing so until THEY can. I urge my colleagues who are under 65 and healthy to join me," Gabbard tweeted on Monday.

And Paul, who tested positive for COVID-19 earlier this year, tweeted on Monday that it is "inappropriate for me - who has already gotten the virus/has immunity - to get in front of elderly/healthcare workers."

I think that Congress handled this perfectly. Enough took it to tell Americans ITS SAFE, while enough are NOT taking it to give needed moral support to health care workers and others. Too bad this support for health care workers does not also include some nice financial benefits as well. They have more than earned them.

[Orange Joe]

Well obviously radiation does not cause a viral infection. That's complete nonsense. But as you say: there are unknowns regarding life long exposure.
Does it increase the risk of cancer to a significant degree? We simply don't have the data yet.

I mean it wouldn't be the first time that something was thought to be safe, that later turned out not to be as knowledge progressed.

Wait. You think we don't know how radiation effects the body? Surely you aren't this ignorant.

[Granyala]

Wait. You think we don't know how radiation effects the body? Surely you aren't this ignorant.

We don't know how a lifetime of exposure to low level EM radiation might affect the body no. We are the first generation that uses these devices to this degree. Eg: right now I can "see" 7 different WLANs in my room. Only one of that is a device that is stationed in my flat.
Chances are there won't be any long term effects. We are currently banking on this assumption, since we set rather low thresholds that must not be exceeded by our devices and are moving forward in their use and spread. Though, there is also a small chance that there may be unforeseen side effects.

We do not know for sure until we have a few decades worth of data on our hands. To pretend otherwise would be, as you called it: ignorant.

[Orange Joe]

We don't know how a lifetime of exposure to low level EM radiation might affect the body no. We are the first generation that uses these devices to this degree. Eg: right now I can "see" 7 different WLANs in my room. Only one of that is a device that is stationed in my flat.
Chances are there won't be any long term effects. We are currently banking on this assumption, since we set rather low thresholds that must not be exceeded by our devices and are moving forward in their use and spread. Though, there is also a small chance that there may be unforeseen side effects.

We do not know for sure until we have a few decades worth of data on our hands. To pretend otherwise would be, as you called it: ignorant.

Yes we do. We know the thresholds to exactly when it becomes detrimental.

https://news.mit.edu/1994/safe-0105

[Granyala]

Yes we do. We know the thresholds to exactly when it becomes detrimental.
https://news.mit.edu/1994/safe-0105

Highly off topic, so this will be my last response. If you wish to discuss the subject further, lets move it to PN please.

You are talking about ionizing radiation. (X-ray, gamma, cosmic or particle radiation) I am talking about non ionizing EM radiation.
Specifically, I am referring to the SAR value, or specific absorption rate of non ionizing radiation.

Generally the safety threshold is set at 2W/Kg as "body part exposure level", ie: a mobile phone held to the ear and 4W/Kg "whole body exposure".

We believe that the technology will not have an effect on our health, when we stay below the mentioned levels. But: research is still ongoing and for good reason:

“While an increased risk of brain tumors is not established, the increasing use of mobile phones and the lack of data for mobile phone use over time periods longer than 15 years warrant further research of mobile phone use and brain cancer risk. In particular, with the recent popularity of mobile phone use among younger people, and therefore a potentially longer lifetime of exposure, WHO has promoted further research on this group. Several studies investigating potential health effects in children and adolescents are underway”

WHO Fact Sheet 193 June 2014 - Electromagnetic fields and public health: mobile phones

[CastletonSnob]

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/pi...-become-felony

[Logwyn]

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/pi...-become-felony

Things like this are what we need to figure out how to stop and get rid of when it comes to legislation. The tacking on of non-related items to bills.

[Zantos]

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/pi...-become-felony

Saw that. This isn't a covid relief bill. Its a sham, nothing more. Its BS that they are seing more money to foreign governments than they are willing to spend on their own citizens.

Just further shows how horrible the response of the US government has been to this on every level. Now, we have a more easily spread strain. Things are about to get Far worse.

[Forogil]

And now we get reports of a new strain of the virus that seems less susceptible to antibodies, suggesting that the current vaccines will not work.
Note this is from Denmark, not the other new strain from the UK (or S. Africa), and not related to the strain discovered in Danish minks.

http://newsreadonline.com/denmark-re...f-coronavirus/
https://tass.com/world/1238695

However, before people get too concerned:
https://www.ssi.dk/-/media/arkiv/sub...k_21122020.pdf (use google translate).

• It's not new; it was discovered in Romania in May and it's also common in Ireland
• The lessened effectiveness of vaccines is unclear; the immune-system hypermutates to handle such variations
• It is strongly suggested that it's less deadly. 10% of the infected has the N439K variant and 10 Danes die every day, but there haven't been any reported deaths with N439K yet.
• There is less hospitalization: 5.22% among all Sars-Cov-2 patients, 2.96% among the ones with N439K.