Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[PhaelixWW]

Forogil link say's you wrong. The fact that the virus mutated originated a lower efficiency on the vaccines.

<sigh> No.

The delta variant includes several mutations that affect the spike protein, which is a large part of the reason why it is moderately vaccine resistant. This is precisely what I said. A change to the spike protein can result in a reduction in vaccine effectiveness, but not all mutations affect the spike protein (and not all mutations that affect the spike protein will make it more resistant, either).

Also, we only have 2 mRNA vaccines so far, those are the ones that target the spike proteins. AZ and J&J are vector vaccines, and Sputnik and Coronovac are atenuated virus vaccines. Please keep in mind that the USA isn't the entire world.

<sigh> Again, no.

While the mRNA vaccines differ in how they introduce the spike proteins to the host's bloodstream to prompt an immune response, EVERY SINGLE APPROVED COVID VACCINE tagets the spike proteins, though with different delivery. The virus vector vaccines use a modified adenovirus to hijack your body into making the mRNA which then causes the spike proteins to be produced. This includes Sputnik, too. The mRNA vaccines just cut out the middleman. Coronavac is slightly different in that it uses the whole virus, instead of just the spike protein, but the process in which the virus is rendered inert leaves the proteins alone, so the immune system still fixates on the spike protein.

[Tuor]

<sigh> No.

The delta variant includes several mutations that affect the spike protein, which is a large part of the reason why it is moderately vaccine resistant. This is precisely what I said. A change to the spike protein can result in a reduction in vaccine effectiveness, but not all mutations affect the spike protein (and not all mutations that affect the spike protein will make it more resistant, either).



<sigh> Again, no.

While the mRNA vaccines differ in how they introduce the spike proteins to the host's bloodstream to prompt an immune response, EVERY SINGLE APPROVED COVID VACCINE tagets the spike proteins, though with different delivery. The virus vector vaccines use a modified adenovirus to hijack your body into making the mRNA which then causes the spike proteins to be produced. This includes Sputnik, too. The mRNA vaccines just cut out the middleman. Coronavac is slightly different in that it uses the whole virus, instead of just the spike protein, but the process in which the virus is rendered inert leaves the proteins alone, so the immune system still fixates on the spike protein.

How about using your head? I'm absolutely sure that if... the S protein hadn't mutated, the vaccine efficiency didn't had dropped. The fact here is that current vaccines don't have the same efficiency with delta then other strain.

We can try the inverse thinking because it works aswell. If the vaccines work over the S proteins why would pharmaceutichals care in developing new vaccines?

I've read an article before where they claimed that the S proteins did mutated already, i dont seem to find the article.

[PhaelixWW]

How about using your head?

How about you use your head?

What I said initially was:

The rate of mutation does not directly drive vaccine efficiency, it only does so indirectly. The virus could mutate 100x as much and it pretty much wouldn't matter unless the thing that mutates is the spike protein, which is what the current vaccines are targeting.

That statement is correct.

I never said that there wasn't mutation, or that the mutations didn't cause a drop in vaccine efficiency. What I said was that speculative future mutations don't directly imply a further drop in effectiveness, let alone a consistent decline in effectiveness for as long as the virus continues to mutate.

What that means is that just because the virus will continue to mutate doesn't mean that the vaccine will eventually "wear out" and be completely ineffective.

I've read an article before where they claimed that the S proteins did mutated already, i dont seem to find the article.

Yes, most of the functional mutations have been mutations of the spike protein. This NYTimes article is a good source of info on each of the major variants, including pictures of how the various mutations affect the spike protein of that variant. You can also find out more information on variants and mutations on covariants.

The spike protein has mutated quite often already, but despite this fact, the vaccines are still mostly effective.

[Forogil]

I still wouldn't call that a "delta-specific" vaccine, though, just as the original Pfizer vaccine wasn't an "original-SARS-CoV-2-virus-specific" vaccine. It would be more accurate to call it a delta-centered general vaccine, because it should still provide protection against all known variants so far.

I would say the vaccine is kind of Delta-specific, but the immune system makes it more general - similarly as the original vaccine gave protection against variants.

I know that there is simplified view that the immune system anti-bodies are kind of "locks" and the infecting proteins etc are "keys" that fit perfectly in that.

However, in reality the fit doesn't have to be that perfect - it still kind of works, and if you after all get infected the immune system will hypermutate to better match the actual infection.

That doesn't mean that the Delta-vaccine looks exactly like Delta-variant or that the original vaccine looked exactly like the original virus, as I believe they do some modifications of the mRNA-sequence to make it work even better (apart from not being real mRNA).

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The point is, there's no guarantee that vaccines are going to somehow continue to become less effective on a linear basis with time.

True, but it cannot be ruled out either. We just have to see what happens.

A more worrying possibility is that spike protein works by binding to ACE2, due to being similar to a hormone in the body (A II), and that vaccines might trigger too many reactions against that hormone.

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@Forogil link say's you wrong. The fact that the virus mutated originated a lower efficiency on the vaccines.

Also, we only have 2 mRNA vaccines so far, those are the ones that target the spike proteins. AZ and J&J are vector vaccines, and Sputnik and Coronovac are atenuated virus vaccines. Please keep in mind that the USA isn't the entire world.

All current vaccines seem to target the spike protein - or parts of it (the parts that actually bind to ACE2).

The viral vector ones, and mRNA-vaccines (and DNA) are just different ways of delivering the RNA so that the body can build something like the spike-protein.
The other vaccines either deliver the whole vaccine but killed (attenuated), or only relevant parts (subunit etc).

[Ursus]

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...AN3NNXNTITUNQ/

A school district in Georgia, after just one week of school, is suspending all instruction until September 7 due to a large number of COVID cases among students and staff. The county the school is in has a very low vaccination rate and no mask mandate.

Many more districts will follow I'm sure, there are countless other schools in the same situation. The lengths everyone has to go just to appease the whiny little bitch minority of anti-mask/anti-vax parents.

Also, even though the school will have no classes at all for the next 3 weeks, all extracurricular activities/sports practices and games will still go on as scheduled. LOL.

[Forogil]

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...AN3NNXNTITUNQ/

A school district in Georgia, after just one week of school, is suspending all instruction until September 7 due to a large number of COVID cases among students and staff. The county the school is in has a very low vaccination rate and no mask mandate.

I don't see how closing the schools now will help.

After the students return in September there will be new cases, the schools close again, and then there are new cases, this will be repeated a few times during the fall/winter. At some point everyone most will have been infected - but it seems that immunity may wane after a year or two and then the saga continues.

In general closing schools is problematic, especially in poor areas like Ware county, GA, and online learning works fairly badly in such areas (lack of broadband connections and good computers for the students, uneducated parents that cannot help their kids, etc).

Italy closed schools more than many other European countries - and especially in the poorer south more student dropped out (and the numbers were already high); which only seems to benefit the 'Ndrangheta and similar organizations:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/26/w...-dropouts.html
https://www.politico.eu/article/ital...ide-education/

Also, even though the school will have no classes at all for the next 3 weeks, all extracurricular activities/sports practices and games will still go on as scheduled. LOL.

That could make sense in a perverted way: it may ensure that all students have been infected, and that will offer some protection for the staff.

[PhaelixWW]

I would say the vaccine is kind of Delta-specific, but the immune system makes it more general

Semantics; we can agree to disagree.

Regardless, no such vaccine is approved yet, and I think the first of them are only just starting trials around now, so it'll be a while.

True, but it cannot be ruled out either. We just have to see what happens.

And yet I never said it should be ruled out. The only thing I was ruling out was the idea that a decrease in effectiveness was both guaranteed and linear, which, despite the mutative property of online discussion, does not somehow mean that I was attempting to guarantee the opposite.

[Rasulis]

Finally some good news.

First time Covid vaccinations in CA soared last week. Around 371k first doses were administered last week in CA. Up 25% from the week before and up 63% from July 5 – 11. CA has not seen those numbers since May when vaccine was opened to people of all ages. At the current rate, the health department think CA can keep the peak hospitalization rate down to the peak of a bad flu season. Yeah. That's the best that they think they can do. Horrible thought.

The US boom in pediatric hospitalizations has been driven largely by a few states. Three states as responsible for half of the new daily hospitalizations for Covid among children. Florida with average 56 new pediatric hospitalizations per day over the last seven days, Texas with 42 and Georgia, 25. Almost all of the states with higher than average rates are in the south.

The rate for new daily pediatric hospitalizations for Covid per 100,000 children in FL is 1.52, TX, 0.57 and CA, 0.2.

BTW, regardless of the talk about vaccine mechanism, the statistics overwhelmingly show that they work realy well. SF has a higher positivity and per capita case numbers than CA. Probably due to the fact that the city has the second highest population density in the US. The actual population density is probably higher due to the fact that more than 20% of SF land is either park or open space (San Francisco - 1st and only city in-nation with a park within10-minute walk). However, its per capita hospitalization rate is half that of CA.

Also, First death of vaccinated Marin County resident due to COVID-19 complications - A vaccinated Marin County resident over the age of 75 has died due to complications from COVID-19, the county health department confirmed Friday. That would make it the third death of a fully vaccinated person due to Covid in the nine Bay Area counties. The first two were over 90. Damn, they are getting younger.

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Ut oh!

Time to Say Goodbye to Some Insurers’ Waivers for Covid Treatment Fees

Starting at the end of last year — and continuing into the spring — a growing number of insurers are quietly ending those fee waivers for covid treatment on some or all policies.

“When it comes to treatment, more and more consumers will find that the normal course of deductibles, copayments and coinsurance will apply,” said Sabrina Corlette, research professor and co-director of the Center on Health Insurance Reforms at Georgetown University.

Even so, “the good news is that vaccinations and most covid tests should still be free,” added Corlette.

That’s because federal law requires insurers to waive costs for covid testing and vaccination.

So testing and vaccination are free. Treatment and hospitalization subject to standard co-pay and deductible rules if you have insurance. If you have no insurance, you are screwed.

[Shadowferal]

Those few states need to be quarantined...walled off for the good of the country.

[unfilteredJW]

Those few states need to be quarantined...walled off for the good of the country.

Too late. Summer season is over. Damage done.

I lay a bunch of blame at the feet of Florida, but it’s not Floridians that came into my town in droves, didn’t wear masks, and complained when places tried to ask them to mask up.

[Zan15]

So testing and vaccination are free. Treatment and hospitalization subject to standard co-pay and deductible rules if you have insurance. If you have no insurance, you are screwed.

If you have no insurance, you are screwed and so are the rest of us since unpayable bills cost are passed on to other patients and sometimes taxpayers.

GG, "my body choice" having negative effects on everyone

[Twdft]

I really hope you guys get at least another national discussion about how to make everyone able to pay for healthcare out of this whole shitshow. I'm pretty sure a couple of countries in Europe would be happy to let you copy their homework.

[Rasulis]

Alabama has one of the lowest vaccination rate in the US. Except for the rural town of Panola with 96% vaccination rate, 100% of those over 65. All thanks to Dorothy, a convenience-store owner, who went door to door in order to convince her neighbors to get their COVID-19 vaccines. I guess sometimes Youtube can be educational.

[Edge-]

Man, hearing a few of my brothers buddies in Florida talking about this...we're fuckin doomed. Talking about how it's not still going on and that the masks/vaccines are all about "compliance" and officials paving the way for socialism.

I had to just leave the voice chat because I couldn't fuckin handle the absolute stupidity and tell them both that they're fucking deadbrained retards who don't have enough brain cells between them to get through a rat maze.

[PhaelixWW]

Alabama has one of the lowest vaccination rate in the US. Except for the rural town of Panola with 96% vaccination rate, 100% of those over 65. All thanks to Dorothy, a convenience-store owner, who went door to door in order to convince her neighbors to get their COVID-19 vaccines. I guess sometimes Youtube can be educational.

Not to put too much of a damper on it, but that 94% (not 96%) is only possible because I guess there aren't any young kids in the town. In fact, the 2010 census apparently listed its population as 144, and that population is pretty much 100% African American, so it's unlikely that they had any die-hard anti-vaxxers to begin with.

Some websites are showing a current population of 39 for Panola, Alabama, down from that 144 back in 2010.

[PhaelixWW]

Not to put a damper on this, but AA and hispanic vaccination rates are lagging behind whites. There are a number of factors at play, but pretending African Americans aren’t at least wary of vaccines is naive.

No, actually, it's not.

African Americans are prone to being vaccine hesitant. Racist, fuckstick Trump supporters are prone to being anti-vax. But there's a big difference between being wary and being violently against. While the percentages might not appear all that different, the level of resistance among those people in each group who have not already been vaccinated is nowhere near the same. All this points out is that local word-of-mouth campaigns to boost vaccine rates in African American communities can actually have a meaningful impact. The same cannot truthfully be said about the racist, fuckstick anti-vaxxers.

[Templar 331]

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...AN3NNXNTITUNQ/

A school district in Georgia, after just one week of school, is suspending all instruction until September 7 due to a large number of COVID cases among students and staff. The county the school is in has a very low vaccination rate and no mask mandate.

Many more districts will follow I'm sure, there are countless other schools in the same situation. The lengths everyone has to go just to appease the whiny little bitch minority of anti-mask/anti-vax parents.

Also, even though the school will have no classes at all for the next 3 weeks, all extracurricular activities/sports practices and games will still go on as scheduled. LOL.

Having graduated from here, it's really all they care about.

[kail]

Man, hearing a few of my brothers buddies in Florida talking about this...we're fuckin doomed. Talking about how it's not still going on and that the masks/vaccines are all about "compliance" and officials paving the way for socialism.

I had to just leave the voice chat because I couldn't fuckin handle the absolute stupidity and tell them both that they're fucking deadbrained retards who don't have enough brain cells between them to get through a rat maze.

As a S. Florida resident, I can be damaging to the mind having any conversation with the average Joe. I don't see this state improving anytime soon even if Desantis loses his seat.

[unfilteredJW]

Man, hearing a few of my brothers buddies in Florida talking about this...we're fuckin doomed. Talking about how it's not still going on and that the masks/vaccines are all about "compliance" and officials paving the way for socialism.

I had to just leave the voice chat because I couldn't fuckin handle the absolute stupidity and tell them both that they're fucking deadbrained retards who don't have enough brain cells between them to get through a rat maze.

That's me but at work and I can't leave.

[Rasulis]

Back to FL, case # on Saturday up 25,991, hospitalization on Sunday down from 16,100 to 15,985, and ICU occupancy increase by 51 to 3,336. Hopefully Monday will be better. Doctors feared that a week from now we will be seeing a spike in mortality rate.

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Update from Texas from DSHS.

Texas now has more people hospitalized for COVID-19 than during its summer 2020 peak.

There are now 11,261 people hospitalized compared to peak of 10,893 in the summer.

1 out of every 156 Texans is an active COVID case according to state data.

Only 52 fully vaccinated people have died from Covid complication in the great state of Texas. Out of that, 37 were over 65 and with underlying conditions.

At this stage, what other proofs do people need to show that vaccines save lives?