Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Draco-Onis]

1) I am under the impression pills are easier to ship and cheaper to make. Hence the optimism.

2) FOX News can call it a cure, it isn't, but they would at least be pushing something more true than hydrochloriquine or ivermeticin. The rest I'll reserve for another thread.

Most of these countries cannot afford it even if it is cheaper, they will be in the same place as they are with the vaccine so it won't change anything. The issue is the response to the pandemic has been profit driven, we can't stamp out the pandemic and make CEOs billions at the same time.

[Breccia]

Most of these countries cannot afford it even if it is cheaper.

Hopefully the UN or some such will arrange donations.

[Rasulis]

1) I am under the impression pills are easier to ship and cheaper to make. Hence the optimism.

2) FOX News can call it a cure, it isn't, but they would at least be pushing something more true than hydrochloriquine or ivermeticin. The rest I'll reserve for another thread.

The biggest advantage is that it is easier to administer. Monoclonal antibody treatment requires IV.

I read that one of its side effect is genetic. The men that were on the test were instructed not to have sex during treatment period.

[PhaelixWW]

I read that one of its side effect is genetic. The men that were on the test were instructed not to have sex during treatment period.

Do you have a source for that? I can't find anything to support that statement.

[Rasulis]

Do you have a source for that? I can't find anything to support that statement.

Yes. I heard it on NPR Morning Edition on my run this morning.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/01/10422...vid-19-effects

No transcript yet. Its toward the end of the 3 minutes interview.

[Forogil]

Merck says experimental pill cuts worst effects of COVID-19[i]

Merck & Co. said Friday that its experimental COVID-19 pill reduced hospitalizations and deaths by half in people recently infected with the coronavirus and that it would soon ask health officials in the U.S. and around the world to authorize its use.

Excellent news. And hopefully it will also be approved for the vaccinated - even if breakthrough infections are rare, and normally mild, this can reduce it even further - if used wisely.

However, the reporting is as usual confusion. Compare the original press-release https://www.merck.com/news/merck-and...ld-or-moderat/

My understanding of AP report is that 7.3% were hospitalized or dead in drug group after 30 days, and 14.1% of the ones getting placebo; and then 8 persons in the placebo group died after those 30 days, but the latter point seems unclear.

Reading the original press report it instead seems clearer that 28 persons (7.3%) were hospitalized in the drug group after 30 days and no-one died, and 53 (14.1%) of the ones getting placebo were hospitalized and living (45) or dead (8).

It seems one primary outcome of the study was reduction in "hospitalized or dead" so they had to report that number.

The AP report is good news. The press report if I understand it correctly is amazing news.

And good news is that it works against variants of concern - including Gamma, Delta, and Mu:
https://www.statnews.com/2021/10/01/...for-treatment/

It's somewhat odd that more got adverse side-effects and even stopped taking the drug in the placebo-group, it may be chance or it may be that the ones who got the placebo didn't feel side-effects but covid and that feeling was reduced in the ones taking the actual drug.

Additionally Merck is promising to deliver 10 million courses this year (of 40 pills each as I understand), the AP report of 10 million doses was a bit ambiguous.
FDA can buy them for 700$ per course, which is considerably more expensive than vaccine - but cheaper than remdesivir.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/worl...-study-2215531

[PhaelixWW]

Yes. I heard it on NPR Morning Edition on my run this morning.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/01/10422...vid-19-effects

No transcript yet. Its toward the end of the 3 minutes interview.

Thanks. Yes, I now remember reading a few weeks ago that the pill works by forcing errors into the process of copying the virus' RNA.

Looks like maybe it's just an overabundance of caution, though.

From Reuters:

Merck has said data shows molnupiravir is not capable of inducing genetic changes in human cells, but men enrolled in its trials had to abstain from heterosexual intercourse or agree to use contraception. Women of child-bearing age in the study could be pregnant and also had to use birth control.

[Forogil]

Oh, and further confusion in AP-reporting.

They write that they updated the story to say that it's 8 pills per day for 5 days.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/...&draw=2&rank=2 says "every 12 hours for 5 days (10 doses total)"
It also, as expected, says that "hospitalization or death" is the first primary outcome, and:

• Males agree to the following during the intervention period and for at least 4 days after the last dose of study intervention: Either abstain from heterosexual intercourse as their preferred and usual lifestyle (abstinent on a long term and persistent basis) and agree to remain abstinent; or must agree to use contraception.
• Females are not pregnant or breastfeeding, and at least one of the following conditions applies: Is not a woman of child bearing potential (WOCBP); or is a WOCBP and using a contraceptive method that is highly effective (a low user dependency method OR a user dependent method in combination with barrier method), or be abstinent from heterosexual intercourse as their preferred and usual lifestyle (abstinent on a long-term and persistent basis) for at least 4 days after the last dose of study intervention; a WOCBP must have a negative highly sensitive pregnancy test (urine or serum test is required) within 24 hours before the first dose of study intervention.

[Breccia]

I read that one of its side effect is genetic.

Um...what? One of the two of us isn't using that term correctly.

[Forogil]

Thanks. Yes, I now remember reading a few weeks ago that the pill works by forcing errors into the process of copying the virus' RNA.

Looks like maybe it's just an overabundance of caution, though.

From Reuters:

Hopefully that is true (except for how Reuters bungled the pregnant part) - but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molnupiravir links to articles saying that Pharmasset Inc. (bought by Gilead) stopped their development of the same drug due to those risks, and there's a whistleblower complaint related to that birth defect possibility when the latest study began.

Not saying that Merck is wrong and that it causes birth defects, just that it seems complicated. And the current protocol was only only no procreational sex during 9 days (when anyway feeling unwell due to covid-19).

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ls-koch-money/

The letter sounds passionate and personal.

It is motivated, the author explains, by a desire to “speak up for what is best for my kids.” And it fervently conveys the author’s feelings to school leaders: “I do not believe little kids should be forced to wear masks, and I urge you to adopt a policy that allows parental choice on this matter for the upcoming school year.”

But the heartfelt appeal is not the product of a grass roots groundswell. Rather, it is a template drafted and circulated this week within a conservative network built on the scaffolding of the Koch fortune and the largesse of other GOP megadonors.

That makes the document, which was obtained by The Washington Post, the latest salvo in an inflamed debate over mask requirements in schools, which have become the epicenter of partisan battles over everything from gender identity to critical race theory. The political melee engulfing educators has complicated efforts to reopen schools safely during a new wave of the virus brought on by the highly transmissible delta variant.

The document offers a rare glimpse into the inner workings of a well-financed conservative campaign to undermine regulations that health authorities say are necessary to contain the coronavirus. The frustration of many parents who want a greater say is deeply felt, school superintendents say. But their anger is also being fueled by organized activists whose influence is ordinarily veiled.

The letter was made available on Tuesday to paying members of the Independent Women’s Network, a project of the Independent Women’s Forum and Independent Women’s Voice that markets itself as a “members-only platform that is free from censorship and cancellation.” Both are nonprofits once touted by their board chairman and CEO, Heather Higgins, as part of a unique tool in the “Republican conservative arsenal” because, “Being branded as neutral but actually having the people who know, know that you’re actually conservative puts us in a unique position.”

Higgins, an heiress to the Vicks VapoRub fortune, did not respond to a request for comment. Carrie Lukas, president of Independent Women’s Forum, said in an interview the letter was originally authored by the group’s policy director and sent to her child’s Denver preschool. The policy director did not consult experts for the letter, Lukas said, because, “She wrote it as a mom. She didn’t call anyone on the phone, but you can see she looked at a lot of data.”

Reminder that a big part of the anti-vaxx/anti-mask nonsense is partisan politics driven by uber-wealthy conservatives. Much as we've seen with many of the conservative "grass-roots campaigns" over the years, they are anything but and are instead well financed efforts by wealthy political donors and political organizations to create the appearance of grassroots organizing.

Stop getting duped into getting yourself sick or dead, or getting others sick or dead, by a bunch of trust-fund babies with a political axe to grind.

[Elegiac]

Reminder that a big part of the anti-vaxx/anti-mask nonsense is partisan politics driven by uber-wealthy conservatives. Much as we've seen with many of the conservative "grass-roots campaigns" over the years, they are anything but and are instead well financed efforts by wealthy political donors and political organizations to create the appearance of grassroots organizing.

Stop getting duped into getting yourself sick or dead, or getting others sick or dead, by a bunch of trust-fund babies with a political axe to grind.

To further add to this, it needs to be emphasised that anti-vaccination is both a social problem rather than an individual one (being effectively an at-large con), and addressing it entails much the same process as 'cooling off' a mark that's been conned.

Something very strange has been happening in Missouri: A hospital in the state, Ozarks Healthcare, had to create a “private setting” for patients afraid of being seen getting vaccinated against COVID-19. In a video produced by the hospital, the physician Priscilla Frase says, “Several people come in to get vaccinated who have tried to sort of disguise their appearance and even went so far as to say, ‘Please, please, please don’t let anybody know that I got this vaccine.’” Although they want to protect themselves from the coronavirus and its variants, these patients are desperate to ensure that their vaccine-skeptical friends and family never find out what they have done.

Missouri is suffering one of the worst COVID-19 surges in the country. Some hospitals are rapidly running out of ICU beds. To Americans who rushed to get vaccinated at the earliest opportunity, some Missourians’ desire for secrecy is difficult to understand. It’s also difficult to square with the common narrative that vaccine refusal, at least in conservative areas of the country, is driven by a lack of respect or empathy from liberals along the coasts. “Proponents of the vaccine are unwilling or unable to understand the thinking of vaccine skeptics—or even admit that skeptics may be thinking at all,” lamented a recent article in the conservative National Review. Writers across the political spectrum have urged deference and sympathy toward holdouts’ concerns about vaccine side effects and the botched CDC messaging about masking and airborne transmission early in the pandemic. But these takes can’t explain why holdouts who receive respect, empathy, and information directly from reliable sources remain unmoved—or why some people are afraid to tell their loved ones about being vaccinated.

--

To outsiders, the social dynamics of the con appear peculiar and irrational. Those caught up in it can seem self-destructive and, frankly, clueless. But to sociologists, including me, who study fraud, such behaviors obey a predictable logic.

The seminal text in the field—Erving Goffman’s 1952 essay “On Cooling the Mark Out”—observes that all targets of con artists eventually come to understand that they have been defrauded, yet they almost never complain or report the crime to authorities. Why? Because, Goffman argues, admitting that one has been conned is so deeply shameful that marks experience it as a kind of social death. The victim, he writes,

"has defined himself as a shrewd man and must face the fact that he is only another easy mark. He has defined himself as possessing a certain set of qualities and then proven to himself that he is miserably lacking in them. This is a process of self-destruction of the self."

Goffman notes that other life events, such as being fired or dumped, can evoke similar feelings of humiliation. But people targeted by con jobs can save their pride by denying the con as long as possible—or claiming they were in on it the whole time. This saves face and cheats social death, but allows the con to continue unchecked, entrapping others. In doing so, marks prioritize their self-image over the common good.

Basically, it's highly likely that most "skeptics" don't actually believe their bullshit but are simply trying to save face. Preferring actual death from COVID to avoid social death from having to admit that the libs were right.

[Rasulis]

Governor "French Laundry" Newsom is at it again.

Gavin Newsom mandates COVID vaccines to attend school, with no testing alternative

California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Friday that his state will be the first to mandate the COVID-19 vaccine for children in public and private schools.

Under the mandate, the COVID-19 vaccine will be added to the list of other compulsory vaccinations required for schooling such as vaccinations against measles, mumps and rubella. Newsom said that parents can claim religious and medical exemptions.

The new mandate will be phased in through two phases: One for children grades seven through 12, and another for kindergarten through sixth grade. The requirement takes effect once the Food and Drug Administration grants full approval for specific age groups, the governor's office said. The office estimates that children grades seven through 12 will have to be vaccinated by July 2022, while the kindergarten through sixth grade timeline is more nebulous as the FDA has yet to issue even an emergency use authorization for the vaccine for children ages 5 to 11.

There is no testing alternative to the mandate, and students who are not vaccinated can remain enrolled in independent study but cannot participate in in-person instruction, the governor's office said.

"We have no trepidation and hesitancy to encourage local school districts to move more quickly," Newsom said, speaking of other school districts who have imposed their own mandates.

In the Bay Area, Oakland Unified School District and Piedmont Unified School District became the first districts in Northern California to mandate vaccines but did not announce a timeline.

Los Angeles Unified — the second largest district in the country with 600,000 students — approved a mandate that requires all eligible students 12 years of age and older to get their first shot by no later than Nov. 21 and to be fully vaccinated by Dec. 19.

This is probably not going to end well in some counties.

[Draco-Onis]

Basically, it's highly likely that most "skeptics" don't actually believe their bullshit but are simply trying to save face. Preferring actual death from COVID to avoid social death from having to admit that the libs were right.

It's a lot worse than that everyone at Fox News is fully vaccinated they mandated it before anyone else yet if you watch Fox News you would think that none of them are.

[Poopymonster]

It's a lot worse than that everyone at Fox News is fully vaccinated they mandated it before anyone else yet if you watch Fox News you would think that none of them are.

They'd have you believe that orange smear around Fucker Whoreson's mouth is flavored dewormer.

[PACOX]

Governor "French Laundry" Newsom is at it again.

Gavin Newsom mandates COVID vaccines to attend school, with no testing alternative



This is probably not going to end well in some counties.

It shouldn't but it will.

I definitely remember needing to get shots and turn in my shot record all throughout grade school and college. Everyone had their story about getting the tetanus shot like it was a rite of passage.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Governor "French Laundry" Newsom is at it again.

Gavin Newsom mandates COVID vaccines to attend school, with no testing alternative



This is probably not going to end well in some counties.

I'm fairly certain that you need to be vaccinated against many things already, why would they have a problem with that all of a sudden? Oh wait...

[Endus]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ls-koch-money/



Reminder that a big part of the anti-vaxx/anti-mask nonsense is partisan politics driven by uber-wealthy conservatives. Much as we've seen with many of the conservative "grass-roots campaigns" over the years, they are anything but and are instead well financed efforts by wealthy political donors and political organizations to create the appearance of grassroots organizing.

Stop getting duped into getting yourself sick or dead, or getting others sick or dead, by a bunch of trust-fund babies with a political axe to grind.

Over and above that, the whole "I have an honest opinion that X is true" stops looking like the valid difference of opinion it claims to be, once you look deeper than the flayed-off skin of the honest argument it's wearing as a costume.

This "honest opinion" is that kids should be more at-risk of catching a deadly illness which, even if they have a decent chance of pulling through, statistically, the same cannot be said of their extended families. Or the staff in the school. Or literally everyone they might have a passing encounter with in whatever region they live in.

This "opinion" is a deliberate and intentional attempt to create hundreds/thousands of little Typhoid Marys and Billys to spread this illness to as many people as possibly.

It's genocidal. People pushing this aren't expressing good-faith concerns for children's well-being. They're actively campaigning to spread a deadly illness to as many as possible.

Frankly, I think higher of people who send Anthrax "bombs" through the mail, because Anthrax at least is not transmissible, meaning the potential damage is far less. It's also far more targeted. Indiscriminate killings of random people is a fucked-up "opinion" to push.

Horrible, horrible people. Effectively, a form of domestic terrorism by way of passive-aggressiveness.

[Edge-]

I'm fairly certain that you need to be vaccinated against many things already, why would they have a problem with that all of a sudden? Oh wait...

It's hilarious seeing military personal, who are required to be vaccinated against all kinds of other shit, freaking out that...they're being required to get vaccinated against something newer.

https://www.militarytimes.com/2015/0...measles-cases/

Wasn't much of an issue for measles, which is one of the required vaccines.

The only time it wasn't mandatory in recent history? The unapproved anthrax vaccine because it hadn't been fully approved/licensed. These vaccines are approved so there's no issue.

And again, because I like banging this drum, the first mandatory vaccination program for the military in US history was George Washington mandating smallpox vaccinations for the Revolutionary Army. Why? Because the British were largely immune to it already (natural immunity due to exposure) and having outbreaks of a preventable illness preventing your army from fighting isn't a good way to win a war.

Mandatory vaccines for have been one of the most American things since America started America-ing.

[Endus]

It's hilarious seeing military personal, who are required to be vaccinated against all kinds of other shit, freaking out that...they're being required to get vaccinated against something newer.

https://www.militarytimes.com/2015/0...measles-cases/

Wasn't much of an issue for measles, which is one of the required vaccines.

The only time it wasn't mandatory in recent history? The unapproved anthrax vaccine because it hadn't been fully approved/licensed. These vaccines are approved so there's no issue.

And again, because I like banging this drum, the first mandatory vaccination program for the military in US history was George Washington mandating smallpox vaccinations for the Revolutionary Army. Why? Because the British were largely immune to it already (natural immunity due to exposure) and having outbreaks of a preventable illness preventing your army from fighting isn't a good way to win a war.

Mandatory vaccines for have been one of the most American things since America started America-ing.

COVID vaccination should be mandatory for enlisted personnel.

You want to refuse? Sure, here's your dishonorable discharge papers, sign here and initial here and here. Get the fuck out, you chickenshit moron.

The only exceptions accepted should be for medical reasons, and I imagine those medical reasons would preclude being accepted into the military in the first place.