Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[ercarp]

Kind of worried about this virus, not gonna lie. Everyone who's recovered has seemingly been hospitalized for a considerable period of time, often in intensive care. If there are multiple outbreaks in multiple countries, how are they going to be able to manage that?

This is a really nasty virus, and I feel like that's putting it extremely lightly. My parents have lung and heart complications, so I'm fearing the worst currently. I also saw an Asian couple wearing face masks yesterday. In Finland. That's unprecedented here.

[xenogear3]

this also shows the stupidity of the average person, people complaining about being quarantined and trying to break quarantine. also showed there's some capability of rebellion still left in the chinese people, because there have been clashes at the entrances to towns, people trying to stop police from escorting sick people into their towns.

This shows that you don't know the history of Chinese communist party.

The Great Chinese Famine between 1959 to 1961 killed millions of people.
The main reason is that the government doesn't let starved farmers go to cities.
It doesn't even let them to go to forest and eat tree bark.

Before the lockdown, Wuhan has 11 million people. Now it has 7 million people.
Where did the 4 million go? I will not call that efficient.
If tons of medicine/food are coming to Wuhan, why do they run away?

[derpkitteh]

This shows that you don't know the history of Chinese communist party.

The Great Chinese Famine between 1959 to 1961 killed millions of people.
The main reason is that the government doesn't let starved farmers go to cities.
It doesn't even let them to go to forest and eat tree bark.

idk what that has to do with anything.

in this moment, they are violently telling police to fuck off with the sick people. that is a certain level of rebellion.

why they don't rebel in totality, idk. probably excuses, "i have a family to think about" is the most common. but people should consider, all the great men of the past made hard decisions BECAUSE of their family, and their desire for that family to live in better world.

[Yunru]

Probaly the most accurate info right now.

[Zan15]

I work at Dublin Airport in Ireland, and there is absolutely ZERO precautions taken towards this outbreak. While I don't deal with any Asian flights I can imagine the reluctance of other companies that do with handling their luggage... with their ramp crew not given the basics such as gloves or sanitizer, etc.

And outside that, those that have been to Wuhan have been left to their own word to isolate ("quarantine") themselves.

Should the shit hit the fan this country is so ill equipped to deal with it with the whole over crowding of hospitals fiasco due to incompetent morons running the country, having closed down a number of hospitals.

Fun times ahead.

If the shit hits the fan NO country has the capability to handle the "crowding".

Hell even if it just gets to current China levels there is next to no country that can handle that. You won't find place like the US and Ireland building multiple hospitals in days/weeks like they are in china right now that's for sure.

[shadowmouse]

Before the lockdown, Wuhan has 11 million people. Now it has 7 million people.
Where did the 4 million go?

/facepalm The same place they go every year at this time, and the reason this outbreak has had extra complications. They went home for the single most important holiday of the year here, Spring Festival. Even more than Christmas or Thanksgiving, Spring Festival is when Chinese go home. Lots of people work in a city, but that's where the jobs are. In many instances, their children are back home, usually with their parents. In the case of the big cities, home may well be in another province, one that might be quite distant. They work their asses off to send money back to take care of their parents and their kids, and for many of them they'll get to go home once a year. There were predictions before the lock down of three billion trips for the holiday, with many small shops closing around the 19th and expected to reopen around the 1st. Travel is a madhouse during Spring Festival and trains can be crammed to the point there are people standing for hours, so you can imagine the implications for spread of diseases.

@Zatheyll By the way, thanks for chiming in. Nice to hear someone else is able to comment from the perspective of living in China, and even better you're not in Beijing so you'll see different facets.

I also saw an Asian couple wearing face masks yesterday. In Finland. That's unprecedented here.

Don't be alarmed. Depending on where they were from, some styles of mask are mainly to protect the face during winter. I know that some of my students who live abroad now have been wearing masks because they're getting treated like lepers. One of my daughters is in Europe (long story, I'm not Chinese, she is) and reports getting the cold shoulder all over the place, but she hasn't even been to China for several years now.

[Deathknightish]

SARS, Bird and Swine flu all over again. People reacting like it's time for a doomsday apocalyptic scenario. Gets tiring. Media using it to sell numbers, which is disgusting.

[Zan15]

SARS, Bird and Swine flu all over again. People reacting like it's time for a doomsday apocalyptic scenario. Gets tiring. Media using it to sell numbers, which is disgusting.

welp right now based on the numbers and suspected actual numbers its all of those combined ……

[xenogear3]

SARS, Bird and Swine flu all over again. People reacting like it's time for a doomsday apocalyptic scenario. Gets tiring. Media using it to sell numbers, which is disgusting.

Are you saying that Trump and 61 countries are all crying wolf ?

[shadowmouse]

welp right now based on the numbers and suspected actual numbers its all of those combined

It isn't even close to being this year's flu. Anybody talking about the flu? Didn't think so. The CDC doesn't even keep accurate numbers on flu, but we're pretty sure it is over 10,000 deaths in the US alone.

Are you saying that Trump

Let me say it flat out. Trump a person who makes a point that he is a germaphobe. His answer to political problems is to build barriers and restrict access. So, no, this is not a guy I trust to understand a disease, and particularly not a disease centered in China. Why would you trust him?

As for the other countries, let me return to the CDC and flu. The US has millions of cases already and over 10K in estimated deaths. This year's vaccine is estimated to be no better than 50% effective and there is extra risk to younger people this year. Is anyone blocking flights from the US?

[Thekri]

It isn't even close to being this year's flu. Anybody talking about the flu? Didn't think so. The CDC doesn't even keep accurate numbers on flu, but we're pretty sure it is over 10,000 deaths in the US alone.


Let me say it flat out. Trump a person who makes a point that he is a germaphobe. His answer to political problems is to build barriers and restrict access. So, no, this is not a guy I trust to understand a disease, and particularly not a disease centered in China. Why would you trust him?

As for the other countries, let me return to the CDC and flu. The US has millions of cases already and over 10K in estimated deaths. This year's vaccine is estimated to be no better than 50% effective and there is extra risk to younger people this year. Is anyone blocking flights from the US?

The difference is potential, this should be obvious. Yes, the flu runs up a lot of fatalities, but it isn't an existential threat to society. It is dangerous because it spreads fast, and it can kill people with weakened systems.

More dangerous versions of the flu are an entirely different matter, as a version of the flu with even a 5% fatality rate would kill millions in the US alone. This is why we freak out when something like Bird Flu comes along. Coronaviruses are not rare, and they spread at least as fast as flus, so this one is alarming because of the potential to kill millions if allowed to spread freely. Something the Common Flu can't do.

The Spanish Flu in 1918 killed about 5% of the entire world's population. In fact, it is the only year on record that the US population declined, because so many died. The Spanish Flu killed more people in one year then WWI killed in 5 years. That is what people are so afraid of these type of viruses.

The common flu is a consistent and terrible disease that kills thousands of people a year, but it won't annihilate civilizations, like some viruses have the potential to do. We don't know if this coronavirus has the potential or not, and nobody really wants to find out.

[shadowmouse]

The difference is potential, this should be obvious. Yes, the flu runs up a lot of fatalities, but it isn't an existential threat to society. It is dangerous because it spreads fast, and it can kill people with weakened systems.

Please correct me if I misread that: "it is dangerous because it spreads fast and it can kill people with weakened systems" seems (to me) to refer back to the Wuhan virus.

If the Wuhan virus spread particularly fast, or was unusually deadly, it should have been seen by now. Airplane flights are a problem for disease transmission, and many of the cases outside of China would have traveled by air at some point: https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/f...on-traveling#1 We aren't seeing a dramatic spread akin to Air China flight 112.

The high risk populations are pretty much the same that are at risk every year from seasonal flu, and because of the One Child Policy China has a demographic imbalance that leans heavily towards the elderly. Because of the dramatic changes in modern China, the oldest among the elderly grew up through some pretty rough times and purely from personal observation I would say underlying health problems are quite common among them. Outside of China we're not really seeing much in the way of fatalities.

So, that's why I say that we're seeing an overreaction, one that the media is playing up and one that certainly isn't helped by having a germaphobe who doesn't like foreigners anyway sitting in the White House.

[announced]

The problem is we don't know that much about this virus. Some studies have been done on it but since it is relatively new there isn't much information out there. It's better to be careful rather than careless.

[Graeham]

I'm just hoping that the situation clears up quickly and that the rest of 2020 is fairly uneventful...

[Realtalk]

If the disease isn’t particularly virulent or lethal why is China immediately burning the bodies before funerals etc...?

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/...74570043232256

[sabe]

Wonder if she stole stuff related to the virus.

"Zheng, a Chinese national, is accused of trying to smuggle vials of biological materials out of the country that authorities allege he stole from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston."

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/counterin...nce/yanqing-ye
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bos...in-boston/amp/

[xenogear3]

Wonder if she stole stuff related to the virus.

"Zheng, a Chinese national, is accused of trying to smuggle vials of biological materials out of the country that authorities allege he stole from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston."

Yes, that professor's research is to modify virus.
These improved virus are not reliable to cure people.
It kills people instead.

By looking at Trump's overreaction, it must be very bad.

[Muzjhath]

This article: "As New Coronavirus Spread, China's Old Habits Delayed Fight" had some interesting perspectives. With what I know about how China often clamps down on anything that can make the Party look bad in the eyes of the rural and inland populations that supports them best (Since the cities tend to get more outside information, more so on the coasts) I can absolutely believe the larger narrative of a coverup.
It also wouldn't be the first time that the CCP covered up an epidemic until after it started spreading outside of China.

[sabe]

Yes, that professor's research is to modify virus.
These improved virus are not reliable to cure people.
It kills people instead.

By looking at Trump's overreaction, it must be very bad.

Oh thank you for info. So he may have taught the Chinese how to modify a virus maybe?

[shadowmouse]

If the disease isn’t particularly virulent or lethal why is China immediately burning the bodies before funerals etc...?

You've linked to a twitter article, so that's on the wrong side of the Great Firewall for me. I see that what is probably a related story has now gone up on Yahoo. It traces back to Global Times too, so I'm guessing they may be the same thing: https://news.yahoo.com/china-says-wu...035557851.html

China has banned funerals, burials and other related activities involving the corpses of deceased victims of the novel coronavirus that originated in Wuhan, China, according to new trial regulations issued Saturday to slow the spread.

China's National Health Commission (NHC) issued new regulations Saturday stating that all victims who succumb to the virus must be cremated at the nearest facility. "No farewell ceremonies or other funeral activities involving the corpse shall be held," the NHC announcement reads.

And further into the article

In China, according to the NHC guidelines issued Saturday, if a coronavirus victims dies, the following measures are to be taken as quickly as possible.

First, the medical staff at the medical facility where the person was being treated are required to disinfect and seal the remains. It is forbidden to open the remains once they have been sealed. Second, the medical staff will issue a death certificate and notify the family. At this point, the local funeral services facility will be contacted. Third, funeral services personnel will then collect the body, deliver it to the relevant facility, and directly cremate the remains. A cremation certificate will then be issued.

No one is permitted to visit the remains during this process. Relatives will, however, be allowed to take the remains after cremation has been completed and documented, the NHC explained in its Saturday announcement.

An earlier announcement from the Ministry of Civil Affairs, according to the state-run People's Daily, has advised people to hold quick and easy funerals and avoid large gatherings to help prevent the virus from spreading further.

Chinese funerals and traditions related to death get quite extravagant: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/china-...eral-services/ (not a joke). The government has already been trying to rein that funerals of all sorts, and so I don't see anything unusual about extending the push to avoid putting crowds of mourners in contact with someone who died from the infection.

There are now enough cases outside of China that I would think we'd be seeing signs of greater lethality outside of China if it really is more deadly. I get that people distrust the Chinese government, and in particular its statistical reporting. That's why I look at the foreign cases as a check. Personally, I think that's about all we can do to sort out hype and misinformation.