1. #281
    Warchief Zatheyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I don't think that's true. Based on the footage I've seen there was a massive amount of animals laying around with different kinds of carcasses stacked on each other, some of them even laying right on the ground. It looked really bad.

    The average wet market is not like that. I've been to plenty of them in China, and every one I've seen is mostly vegetables with a couple normal butcher stalls. The one in Wuhan that's on the news is both illegal and rare. I've never been to Wuhan, so I don't know culture much there, but the wildlife meat markets like that are not easy to come by.

  2. #282
    Over 9000! Graeham's Avatar
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    It's all getting a little surreal and too close to home for my liking. The site where the UK nationals are being put into quarantine is Arrowe Park Hospital. I used to live near there. Friends and family still do. I've an aunt who is a nurse working there. I went there twice - one to get a broken wrist fixed up and again to have an emergency operation to remove my appendix. It was a decade ago now, but the staff were hardworking and very pleasant. From what I'm told, that's still the case today.

    The Wirral is also a peninsula. The cynic in me can't help but think it was deliberately chosen because it can easily be cut off from the rest of the country if things go south. I know I'm probably overthinking things, but I'm definitely worried now. I just hope the quarantine works.

  3. #283
    OZ seems to have gone full pandemic 'anyone coming from China will be barred entry to oz, except for oz citizens, permanent residents & their direct family + flight crews.'

    Obviously if you are a citizen, permanent resident & their direct family + flight crew you must have a natural immunity which is why this move makes complete sense....

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    OZ seems to have gone full pandemic 'anyone coming from China will be barred entry to oz, except for oz citizens, permanent residents & their direct family + flight crews.'

    Obviously if you are a citizen, permanent resident & their direct family + flight crew you must have a natural immunity which is why this move makes complete sense....
    Not quite. The Australian government has set up a quarantine station on Christmas Island and those evacuated out of China are to be sent there for two weeks.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmouse View Post
    @sabe Just a small point from the article you linked:



    I can't say the source of the article (https://nationalfile.com/about/) gives me any particular confidence, nor does the fact that this "study" hasn't been peer reviewed and seems to be something mainly released on Twitter. That it apparently comes out of India, gives me even less confidence.
    Yes yes, i like theories. They used AIDS drugs in early days of infection too, not idea how it worked out.

    I found something else about how virus works
    https://www.businessinsider.com/doct...mpression=true
    Got 3/3 Improved Blizzard but they still fail.

  6. #286
    I work at Dublin Airport in Ireland, and there is absolutely ZERO precautions taken towards this outbreak. While I don't deal with any Asian flights I can imagine the reluctance of other companies that do with handling their luggage... with their ramp crew not given the basics such as gloves or sanitizer, etc.

    And outside that, those that have been to Wuhan have been left to their own word to isolate ("quarantine") themselves.

    Should the shit hit the fan this country is so ill equipped to deal with it with the whole over crowding of hospitals fiasco due to incompetent morons running the country, having closed down a number of hospitals.

    Fun times ahead.

  7. #287
    Containing this is a lost cause at this point. China should have reacted much faster, and not yolo it with their new year holidays. There’s currently reported 2000 new corona incidents a day.

  8. #288
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin
    China should have reacted much faster, and not yolo it with their new year holidays.
    Let me see, let's guess what would have happened if it fizzled ... and so far it pretty well has. The same news sources saying that the CCP should have done more, come down harder, would have had a field day with how it proves the CCP is evil. Early on, for example, there were assertions that there was no virus and this was a ploy to quash the HK dissent. No, the main thing fueling this is it plays to perceptions about China, and at a guess China knows damn well that the idea of a corona virus is permanently linked to how they handled SARS.

    Raw numbers are being played up for shock, but I say that as a threat it has fizzled because face it, nobody would give a good god damn if it were flu and returning these numbers:

    [Quote]Doctors at the University of Alabama say this flu season, kids and young adults are at an increased risk. The Chief Medical Officer and associate Dean for Medical Affairs UA’s College of Community Health Science wants people to take the flu seriously.

    “How do you know you have the flu? Well it’s like you got hit by a truck. You have a fever. You ache all over," explained Dr. Thomas Weida. He said this year nearly 5,000 people have died from the flu and it has sent 80,000 people to the hospital.

    “This year, influenza B seems to be more dominant and the vaccine may not be quite as effective as others. But it’s about 50% effective,” Dr. Weida continued.[Quote]
    Source: https://www.wbrc.com/2020/01/16/doct...ent-effective/

    Read between the lines on that. Unlike the Wuhan virus, flu this year may be an increased threat to younger Americans and the vaccine may be less effective. Check against CDC numbers and you will see things are probably worse than the first article reports (it's unclear how "this year" was used):
    CDC estimates* that, from October 1, 2019, through January 25, 2020, there have been:
    19,000,000 – 26,000,000 flu illnesses
    8,600,000 – 12,000,000 flu medical visits
    180,000 – 310,000 flu hospitalizations
    10,000 – 25,000 flu deaths

    *Because influenza surveillance does not capture all cases of flu that occur in the U.S., CDC provides these estimated ranges to better reflect the larger burden of influenza. These estimates are calculated based on CDC’s weekly influenza surveillance data and are preliminary.

    This web page provides weekly, preliminary estimates of the cumulative in-season numbers of flu illnesses, medical visits, hospitalizations, and deaths in the United States. CDC does not know the exact number of people who have been sick and affected by influenza because influenza is not a reportable disease in most areas of the U.S. However, CDC has estimated the burden of flu since 2010 using a mathematical model that is based on data collected through the U.S. Influenza Surveillance System, a network that covers approximately 8.5% of the U.S. population (~27 million people).
    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

    This stuff isn't even actually reported, this is a guess based on roughly 8.5% of the US population, and there are already 10-25k dead. Now look at the news and play a game, what do you think would be happening if media reported on flu in the US the way they've been handling the Wuhan virus?

    Do you think Australia would be shipping Americans off to Christmas Island? I'm kinda betting ... nope. Is anyone going to ask why the US yolo'd it on Thanksgiving and Christmas with possibly tens of thousands dead? I'm gonna bet nope on that one too.

    This virus sucks, and thank you very much I'd really rather have neither this, nor the flu, and in particular not this on top of the regular flu season. Still, I find much of the panic annoyingly overblown (I'd like to think it isn't just impeachment burnout). I just read a report on doctors from the Middle East going to help where it was described as a suicide mission (painfully poor choice of words). Nice of them, and I think it is an important opportunity since MERS is much more fatal and extra experience might help with future threats, but a couple hundred deaths out of 1.4 billion seems pretty trivial when the US CBA to know if there are 10K or maybe 25K dead.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

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  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    I work at Dublin Airport in Ireland, and there is absolutely ZERO precautions taken towards this outbreak. While I don't deal with any Asian flights I can imagine the reluctance of other companies that do with handling their luggage...
    The virus cannot survive without a host.
    It dies in the air after a few minutes.
    This is why China is still allowed to ship products.

  10. #290
    Six more tourists in Phuket are under observation on suspicion of being infected with the Wuhan coronavirus, local officials have announced.

    So far no people in Phuket have been confirmed as infected with the virus, Dr Chalermpong Sukontapol, Director of Vachira of Phuket Hospital, stressed at the mandatory “daily update” on the current situation regarding the virus in Phuket yesterday (Jan 31).

    “They are only suspected of being infected, and are under observation only,” Dr Chalermpong said.

    The six new cases brought to 29 the total number of people in Phuket held for observation since officials started scanning new arrivals for elevated body temperatures on Jan 5, he added.

    Of those, 19 have been already discharged from hospitals, he said, adding that the remaining 10 are in hospital care, as follows: eight at Vachira Phuket Hospital, one at Patong Hospital and one at Thalang Hospital.

    Officials are screening all people arriving on inbound direct flights from the risk areas designated by the Ministry of Public Health, namely Mainland China but not Macau and Hong Kong, Dr Chalermpong explained.

    A total of 1,336 new arrivals from mainland China landing at Phuket International Airport on 43 flights were scanned on Thursday (Jan 30), he said.
    MACNELS SHIPPING PHUKET

    Meanwhile, while not screening all international arrivals, officials are screening all people leaving the island, Dr Chalermpong said

    Officials on Thursday scanned 20,048 tourists departing the island on 107 international flights, and 10,113 people departing on 62 domestic flights, he noted.

    One of the new six being held for observation was identified while boarding a flight departing Phuket on Thursday, Phuket Vice Governor Supoj Rotreuang Na Nongkhai confirmed at the meeting.

    The scanning of tourists arriving in Phuket on cruise liners is continuing, Vice Governor Supoj said, with officers from the Phuket Provincial Health Office screening some 3,800 tourists coming ashore at Patong Beach.

    So far no cruise liner tourist arrivals are suspected to be infected, he added.
    https://www.thephuketnews.com/six-mo...uket-74636.php

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    The virus cannot survive without a host.
    It dies in the air after a few minutes.
    This is why China is still allowed to ship products.
    We don't know if it dies after a few minutes in the air, stop spreading misinformation.
    Last edited by Heran; 2020-02-01 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #291
    Warchief Zatheyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heran View Post

    We don't know if it dies after a few minutes in the air, stop spreading misinformation.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...virus-answered

    There's no evidence at the moment to suggest that goods imported from China could transmit the virus, according to the CDC. The virus wouldn't make it through the trip from China to the United States on packing materials, says Ian Lipkin, director of the Center for Infection and Immunity at the Mailman School of Public Health.

    And the same goes for an object you might get in the mail, he adds. "Whether it's a phone or a piece of furniture, it's not going to survive."

    The Wuhan virus, like others in the coronavirus family, "doesn't live for very long on surfaces," he says.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Containing this is a lost cause at this point. China should have reacted much faster, and not yolo it with their new year holidays. There’s currently reported 2000 new corona incidents a day.
    China is the only country on Earth that can lockdown this many people and do it as efficiently as they have. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your viewpoint, but you can be damn sure no country would ever do a lockdown like this, which has never been seen in history.

    There are faults with how local authorities in Wuhan tried to hide it early on, but the response since then has been more than any other country would be capable of doing. China sacrifices many personal freedoms to have the logistical and social grasp that it does, letting it build hospitals as fast as it currently is, shut down entire metropolises, and order everyone in the country to wear face masks.

    Feel free to say China could have done better, but try and think of how you or the people around you would react if tomorrow your country blocked you from leaving your town or city, shut down all roads and fining or arresting you if you drove your car, and forced you to wear a mask going out anywhere. I doubt you would be all that happy personally, even if it is for the "greater good".

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    China is the only country on Earth that can lockdown this many people and do it as efficiently as they have. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your viewpoint, but you can be damn sure no country would ever do a lockdown like this, which has never been seen in history.

    There are faults with how local authorities in Wuhan tried to hide it early on, but the response since then has been more than any other country would be capable of doing. China sacrifices many personal freedoms to have the logistical and social grasp that it does, letting it build hospitals as fast as it currently is, shut down entire metropolises, and order everyone in the country to wear face masks.

    Feel free to say China could have done better, but try and think of how you or the people around you would react if tomorrow your country blocked you from leaving your town or city, shut down all roads and fining or arresting you if you drove your car, and forced you to wear a mask going out anywhere. I doubt you would be all that happy personally, even if it is for the "greater good".
    this is one thing i respect about china. being able to take the hardline stance on things and do something kinda bad for the greater good.

    this also shows the stupidity of the average person, people complaining about being quarantined and trying to break quarantine. also showed there's some capability of rebellion still left in the chinese people, because there have been clashes at the entrances to towns, people trying to stop police from escorting sick people into their towns.

  13. #293
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    Kind of worried about this virus, not gonna lie. Everyone who's recovered has seemingly been hospitalized for a considerable period of time, often in intensive care. If there are multiple outbreaks in multiple countries, how are they going to be able to manage that?

    This is a really nasty virus, and I feel like that's putting it extremely lightly. My parents have lung and heart complications, so I'm fearing the worst currently. I also saw an Asian couple wearing face masks yesterday. In Finland. That's unprecedented here.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    this also shows the stupidity of the average person, people complaining about being quarantined and trying to break quarantine. also showed there's some capability of rebellion still left in the chinese people, because there have been clashes at the entrances to towns, people trying to stop police from escorting sick people into their towns.
    This shows that you don't know the history of Chinese communist party.

    The Great Chinese Famine between 1959 to 1961 killed millions of people.
    The main reason is that the government doesn't let starved farmers go to cities.
    It doesn't even let them to go to forest and eat tree bark.

    Before the lockdown, Wuhan has 11 million people. Now it has 7 million people.
    Where did the 4 million go? I will not call that efficient.
    If tons of medicine/food are coming to Wuhan, why do they run away?
    Last edited by xenogear3; 2020-02-01 at 06:40 PM.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    This shows that you don't know the history of Chinese communist party.

    The Great Chinese Famine between 1959 to 1961 killed millions of people.
    The main reason is that the government doesn't let starved farmers go to cities.
    It doesn't even let them to go to forest and eat tree bark.
    idk what that has to do with anything.

    in this moment, they are violently telling police to fuck off with the sick people. that is a certain level of rebellion.

    why they don't rebel in totality, idk. probably excuses, "i have a family to think about" is the most common. but people should consider, all the great men of the past made hard decisions BECAUSE of their family, and their desire for that family to live in better world.

  16. #296
    Over 9000! Yunru's Avatar
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    Probaly the most accurate info right now.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    I work at Dublin Airport in Ireland, and there is absolutely ZERO precautions taken towards this outbreak. While I don't deal with any Asian flights I can imagine the reluctance of other companies that do with handling their luggage... with their ramp crew not given the basics such as gloves or sanitizer, etc.

    And outside that, those that have been to Wuhan have been left to their own word to isolate ("quarantine") themselves.

    Should the shit hit the fan this country is so ill equipped to deal with it with the whole over crowding of hospitals fiasco due to incompetent morons running the country, having closed down a number of hospitals.

    Fun times ahead.
    If the shit hits the fan NO country has the capability to handle the "crowding".

    Hell even if it just gets to current China levels there is next to no country that can handle that. You won't find place like the US and Ireland building multiple hospitals in days/weeks like they are in china right now that's for sure.
    Whether SHE IS INDICTED OR EVEN GUILTY IT DOESNT MATTER. HER GUILT IS A MOOT POINT!!! - Fox News 2016
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  18. #298
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3
    Before the lockdown, Wuhan has 11 million people. Now it has 7 million people.
    Where did the 4 million go?
    /facepalm The same place they go every year at this time, and the reason this outbreak has had extra complications. They went home for the single most important holiday of the year here, Spring Festival. Even more than Christmas or Thanksgiving, Spring Festival is when Chinese go home. Lots of people work in a city, but that's where the jobs are. In many instances, their children are back home, usually with their parents. In the case of the big cities, home may well be in another province, one that might be quite distant. They work their asses off to send money back to take care of their parents and their kids, and for many of them they'll get to go home once a year. There were predictions before the lock down of three billion trips for the holiday, with many small shops closing around the 19th and expected to reopen around the 1st. Travel is a madhouse during Spring Festival and trains can be crammed to the point there are people standing for hours, so you can imagine the implications for spread of diseases.

    @Zatheyll By the way, thanks for chiming in. Nice to hear someone else is able to comment from the perspective of living in China, and even better you're not in Beijing so you'll see different facets.

    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp
    I also saw an Asian couple wearing face masks yesterday. In Finland. That's unprecedented here.
    Don't be alarmed. Depending on where they were from, some styles of mask are mainly to protect the face during winter. I know that some of my students who live abroad now have been wearing masks because they're getting treated like lepers. One of my daughters is in Europe (long story, I'm not Chinese, she is) and reports getting the cold shoulder all over the place, but she hasn't even been to China for several years now.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Sixty years. One sexagenary cycle complete, a new adventure awaits.
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  19. #299
    SARS, Bird and Swine flu all over again. People reacting like it's time for a doomsday apocalyptic scenario. Gets tiring. Media using it to sell numbers, which is disgusting.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathknightish View Post
    SARS, Bird and Swine flu all over again. People reacting like it's time for a doomsday apocalyptic scenario. Gets tiring. Media using it to sell numbers, which is disgusting.
    welp right now based on the numbers and suspected actual numbers its all of those combined ……
    Whether SHE IS INDICTED OR EVEN GUILTY IT DOESNT MATTER. HER GUILT IS A MOOT POINT!!! - Fox News 2016
    You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic,” - Sen (r) Graham 1999

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