Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Deus Mortis]

Look and behold, the ugly face of nationalism in this post. Rather ironic that you have this as a signature "No one is above the law! Not even the president!".

Hmmm..

This will have consequences in the long term. You may spin this in whatever direction you want to justify this personally it won't matter.

Good of you to assume, too bad you completely misread my intent. 3m is most likely getting bound by laws to do what they did. I already said it is fucked and is not right. Canada produces no N95 masks, they have to get all theirs shipped in. If Canada started an economic war with the US, do you honestly think the person sitting in the White House would not be petty and force 3M to make sure they get 0 masks. Nothing in my post is Nationalistic. If we did what Endus suggested it would honestly make everything worse for everyone. People would die, it is something I don't want to happen.

[Mayhem]

It was a shit move - but no an act of war; as it wasn't a direct military attack on Germany or one of its allies.

The term act of war or casus belli can include almost everything. The ethnic Russian population in Crimea was stated as casus belli to justify the annexation of Crimea.

[Forogil]

How is piracy not an act of war?

The USA seized German property, for no defensible reason.

If you order something it's generally not yours until it actually arrives; so it wasn't German property.

[Mayhem]

If you order something it's generally not yours until it actually arrives; so it wasn't German property.

Well, international trade must be fun in your world.

[Forogil]

https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/act-of-war/

An act of war includes actions that provoke warfare, not just military actions during war.

In practice, but legally they are not acts of war according to UN charter, and I think that Germany is a member of UN and agrees with its idea of avoiding military conflicts.

[Puupi]

If you order something it's generally not yours until it actually arrives; so it wasn't German property.

That's exactly what a pirate would say.

[Forogil]

Well, international trade must be fun in your world.

Yes, since when I order fun items (domestically or internationally) to pass time during these times I know that I don't have to worry about the items until they actually arrive - since they aren't my property before that.

[Dentelan]

Yes, since when I order fun items (domestically or internationally) to pass time during these times I know that I don't have to worry about the items until they actually arrive - since they aren't my property before that.

How is that can be true
I order some shit on alibaba, i give supplier money, i get my invoice. Since that moment stuff i paid for became my property, it is just on the way to me. Am i wrong?

[Mayhem]

Yes, since when I order fun items (domestically or internationally) to pass time during these times I know that I don't have to worry about the items until they actually arrive - since they aren't my property before that.

Yeah, companies probably work really well under those conditions, they order resources and just hope they arrive and not get bought up by another company while in delivering limbo.

[Forogil]

How is that can be true
I order some shit on alibaba, i give supplier money, i get my invoice. Since that moment stuff i paid for became my property, it is just on the way to me. Am i wrong?

It depends on the contract. You read it, right?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, companies probably work really well under those conditions, they order resources and just hope they arrive and not get bought up by another company while in delivering limbo.

There is normally a contract saying what and when they should deliver, and the penalties if they fail to do so.

Similarly if they deliver, but they are sub-standard products - which is important since there has been number of such cases recently for PPE and testing equipment as lots of companies want to get in on the action (and there is less demand for everything else).

In other market segments there are also lots of OEMs in Europe that are stuck because their suppliers in China haven't delivered - not because the US took the items, but because their workers have been quarantined.

I'm not saying that contracts and lawyers are good, just that it's the way things are handled. I also believe that these actions are really stupid and counter-productive - but that's what happens when people act in panic.

[Tabrotar]

Some countries dont need new laws if the citizens follow common-sense rules, not really a shocking news its a cultural thing for sure.

But ordering masks for everyone would be a smart move, if it helps to uphold the social distancing it is allready a benefit for everyone and shaming for those who HAVE TO wear them is minimized. What the masks prevent and what not, doesnt even matter at that point anymore.

Here in germany we might get some mask orders for next week ( I really hope ), but the infection curve is not critical yet and the healthcare system was clearly prepared in time. Got FFP2 masks for the foreseeable future and I assume many countries will just adopt the japanese way to deal with this new permanent change in our lives and will wear masks in specific situations even without any laws.

Yeah great, a mask orde rwith no mask arround, or way overpriced, but shur ei will pay 10€ for a fucking mask everytime i want to get aomething to eat...

[Deja Thoris]

How is that can be true
I order some shit on alibaba, i give supplier money, i get my invoice. Since that moment stuff i paid for became my property, it is just on the way to me. Am i wrong?

You're wrong. It's yours once its been proven you've taken delivery in this case.

It gets technical but generally ownership transfers when "risks and rewards of ownership" have transferred. In practice theres many different situations. If a company ships a crate of masks to someone else its generally not the companies once they've shipped them (the courier DHL or UPS etc will take over responsibility and have insurance should they lose or damage them enroute)

Honestly, the full scope of this is waaay beyond this thread.

In other news CNN is reporting people got off a cruise ship in France, got on a plane to Atlanta and were allowed to roam free through the airport, many of them were infected.

[unfilteredJW]

You're wrong. It's yours once its been proven you've taken delivery in this case.

It gets technical but generally ownership transfers when "risks and rewards of ownership" have transferred. In practice theres many different situations. If a company ships a crate of masks to someone else its generally not the companies once they've shipped them (the courier DHL or UPS etc will take over responsibility and have insurance should they lose or damage them enroute)

Honestly, the full scope of this is waaay beyond this thread.

In other news CNN is reporting people got off a cruise ship in France, got on a plane to Atlanta and were allowed to roam free through the airport, many of them were infected.

People from Atlanta are the worst and I'm not surprised.

[Tuor]

[Puupi]

Turkey just stole 150 ventilators en route from China to Spain.

[Tabrotar]

I mean, I'm not saying it's okay, but Germany did the exact same thing to Switzerland, like... 3 weeks ago.

Ah yes, shure mate, banning exporting of masks is the same as stealing masks people already paid for...

[Puupi]

You're wrong. It's yours once its been proven you've taken delivery in this case.

It gets technical but generally ownership transfers when "risks and rewards of ownership" have transferred. In practice theres many different situations. If a company ships a crate of masks to someone else its generally not the companies once they've shipped them (the courier DHL or UPS etc will take over responsibility and have insurance should they lose or damage them enroute)

Honestly, the full scope of this is waaay beyond this thread.

In other news CNN is reporting people got off a cruise ship in France, got on a plane to Atlanta and were allowed to roam free through the airport, many of them were infected.

Doesn't the Atlanta airport have the highest amount of traffic in the world?

[PhaelixWW]

Ah yes, shure mate, banning exporting of masks is the same as stealing masks people already paid for...

Why are you assuming those masks were paid for?

EDIT: There are some reports that the masks were actually already paid for.

[Khaza-R]

Turkey just stole 150 ventilators en route from China to Spain.

Should anyone be surprised given what that country does on a global stage. Literally using human refugees are bartering chips. The most vile regime of 21st century.

[jonnysensible]

Lots of bandits around then.

Why do the USA keep fucking with the Germans lol..first that vaccine now this.