Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Felya]

They are not that closely related - even though both are RNA-viruses.
Most importantly HIV is a retro-virus, coronaviruses are not.

I was told that you know what you are talking about and I “misunderstood something”.

[Skulltaker]

Dude... we know where it came from... genealogy already studied... It’s sensationalism, because HIV is a form of corona virus. Obviously, there would be parts shared. It’s not upgraded any more than other versions of corona virus, which there are many... including HIV.

WHAT? No it isn't. Coronaviruses are Nidovirales, HIV is an Ostervirales. The two have rather little in common. The genesequence that is supposedly found in the novel Corona virus, that is supposedly from the HIV virus, is found naturally in a broad variety of species, and not exclusively viruses either.

But he is saying it is a manmade virus

He's a 90 year old man who has had many controversies surrounding him. In 2010 he presented a new way to detect Viruses. Want to know why? He proposed that a solution of water and Virus-DNA emmits radiowaves that cause the water to assume a 'nanostructure', amplifying hte radio waves, and those in turn can be detected by doctors. In 2009 he proposed that a healthy diet can cure HIV. You sure you want to take pointers of this guy?

In any case, he based his statement on a by now long withdrawn and admittedly false study in the early days of research into SARS-CoV2, and the 'supposedly' HIV protein strand is found in many other organisms as well, naturally. There are no indicators that the virus was engineered.

[Machismo]

The upgraded HIV thingy? I've already said i misread for that part. He is saying it has some elements of HIV virus

Great, I hope you learned your lesson, and choose your words more carefully in the future.

[lockybalboa]

posting conspiracy theories is a forbidden topic. that's why.

Just here or anywhere else? I've deleted my original post. Didn't know it is disallowed. Guess I'm fucked

[Cynep]

i see your one of those people who think the government is a tool of oppression. yeah we're not gonna get any sort of reasonable discussion out of anarchy or white knighting for holocaust deniers.

No, what I'm saying is
... that in law the government tells us what is "malicious intent" and what isn't (and BTW that definition changes between countries and between time periods), the rest is your fantasies, I didn't say the rest. (regardless of my opinion of anarchists or holocaust deniers)

[lockybalboa]

Great, I hope you learned your lesson, and choose your words more carefully in the future.

I've got a feeling you are tailing me every where. You are creepy.

[Skulltaker]

As even his article states, they are from the same family.

They aren't. HIV is a retrovirus, Corona forms its own family. The closest they are related to is their Phylum - that's the 4ths lowest order.

[Machismo]

Just here or anywhere else? I've deleted my original post. Didn't know it is disallowed. Guess I'm fucked

Well, definitely here:

Forbidden Topics
...keep in mind the post contents/subjects that are not allowed:
Posts that contribute nothing ("what does this have to do with WoW" etc)
Meme replies (LOL, TL;DR, OVER 9000, /thread etc)
Image macros and image memes
"Do my homework for me" threads. (Asking for a push in the right direction is ok.)
Religion
Race/Ethnicity
Nationalism and nation bashing
Medical Advice
Abortion
Circumcision/FGM
Conspiracies
Sexually-explicit/Nudity
Sexuality, Gender, Gender identity
Dating/Romance/Relationships
Graphic violence or gore images/videos
Content that is dangerous or considered illegal

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I've got a feeling you are tailing me every where. You are creepy.

I simply corrected a false claim. Since you deleted your post, it's clear you acknowledge it was a false claim.

No need to thank me.

[Forogil]

So, it's indeed bullshit, we shouldn't investigate further? I'm asking as a layman.

Of course some should investigate it further, but it's most likely just random chance; if there is anything to it at all.

It doesn't makes sense that such a seemingly small part of HIV was included in a such a corona-viruses by deliberate actions - and the ones that previously investigated the conspiracy theory found no evidence of it being man-made.

[lockybalboa]

Well, definitely here:



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I simply corrected a false claim. Since you deleted your post, it's clear you acknowledge it was a false claim.

No need to thank me.

I'm not saying whether it is fake or real. I deleted it because i don't want to get into trouble. What that guy said was the truth or not we have no way of knowing. Hopefully not.

[Machismo]

I'm not saying whether it is fake or real. I deleted it because i don't want to get into trouble. What that guy said was the truth or not we have no way of knowing. Hopefully not.

Well, then surely you can show in your article where it's an upgraded version of HIV. I'm not talking about what that guy said, I'm talking about what you said.

If not, then it sure seems like your claim if false.

[Felya]

They aren't. HIV is a retrovirus, Corona forms its own family. The closest they are related to is their Phylum - that's the 4ths lowest order.

I asked a “higher power” and was told I misunderstood something, thus was wrong.

[Machismo]

I asked a “higher power” and was told I misunderstood something, thus was wrong.

Did you consult Bill Nye? Or, was it Doctor Oz?

[lockybalboa]

Well, then surely you can show in your article where it's an upgraded version of HIV. I'm not talking about what that guy said, I'm talking about what you said.

If not, then it sure seems like your claim if false.

Upgraded HIV part was my misreading. Whether it is man-made like he's said we don't know.

[Felya]

Did you consult Bill Nye? Or, was it Doctor Oz?

I have a medical professional on hand...

Edit: I could have sworn she told me weeks ago, but now she is saying I misunderstood. She did approve both of the two people correcting me, so their stuff is solid. Oh and “medical professional” is better.

[Machismo]

Upgraded HIV part was my misreading. Whether it is man-made like he's said we don't know.

Great, so it's quite literally a false claim. Now, whether that false claim was on purpose, or on accident, is still up in the air.

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I have a doctor on hand...

Dr. Pepper doesn't count, neither does Doctor Scholl.

I will accept Dr. Dre as a subject matter expert.

[Bcardi]

Oh boy...this is going to be fun.

Let's start for doing the weird thing of quoting myself.....3 weeks ago.




The inmunology tests that Italy,Spain,Germany... are conducting (right now) points that the Imperial College nailed it in their numbers (now of course those are numbers for several weeks ago,we don't know the exact numbers but they pretty much succedeed in determining % of population based on number of deaths because it's a really great projection of what the immunology test suggest today as preliminary results)

Maybe you are realizing this issue right now but the fact that the number of diagnosed cases is a marginal fraction of the total numbers ( sometimes even 1/70th) is common knowledge from the start of the pandemic.

If the mortality rate we see around Europe ( >~ 10% in Italy,Spain,France,UK,Belgium...) were true you this would be a collapsing civilization.

So I picture you wondering "What's the fuss then?". Are we turning the economy into smithereens for a realistic mortality between 0.2% and 1%? Are we crazy?

No, we are INFORMED ( specially the experts that define measures) as opposed to you that ignore two key elements:

1. Covid-19 spreads like basically nothing we have even seen in epidemiology. Even the most conservative estimates points that no social distancing measures implies it could reach 60% population in a 6 months period ( do you want to know the more extreme cases? Duplication time of 3 days...by the start of June 200 millions of US citizens are infected or has been infected). Comparing its reproductive order with the common flu is a joke. I have lost the sense of humor these last weeks....I'm not in the mood of jokes.

2. The mortality rate mentioned before relies on having the adequate medical treatment and the percentage of people infected with covid-19 that needs that medical treatment( I'm not just saying an ICU bed...a simple hospital bed without intensive care) is several orders of magnitude higher than common flu.

So let's sum 1+2. What do you get? You get...

3. Let's be stupid. Allow the virus to go rampart...let the virus infect half the population of the countries SO WE ALL ARE SICK AT THE SAME TIME in the lapse of a few months.Let the needed treatment be impossible because not even rich countries have that health resources ( no doctors,no nurses,no beds...no fucking PPE equipment) and see what's happen.

Those protest are a completely irresponsible and comes for uneducated people like you that are unable to understand point (1) ( no flu can makes all sick at the same time) and point (2) (no flu requires the health resources covid-19 does) or even worst....comes from people ( are you one of those?) that understand the problem but think 3 millions american deaths is an adequate sacrifice.

But the main issue here is the arrogance you people show when trying to argue about epidemics....against the advice of the very epidemiologists that are insisting in the need of social distancing while at the same time using their own very studies to contradict the measures the propose ( what....the .....fuck...).
Don't you see a fundamental paradox in telling Science..."Hey...this is way less deadly that it looks" based on the number Science gives you? Do you really think they don't know the number of real cases is 50X the number of diagnosed cases?

Why don't you take a walk around Hart Island ( not that you can) and try to tell people there: "This is completely normal...we can not even properly bury our own deads....happen all the time.Completely normal flu".

I would laugh at you too given that you are the truly clueless guy about what we are talking about ( using real data and science) but as I said...I lost my sense humor some weeks ago.

Had to come back cause was just too easy. Reading and Comprehension at the basic level is needed for a forum. I showed the data I was referring to as well stated was shocked it was not posted.

No one cares about your estimations and testing that hasn't even started from 3 weeks ago. Way to try and act important. Since I was talking about an actual test from an actual county that I posted the source too. Anything outside of that date is irrelevant to what I posted about Easter and protest. So like I said this was too easy. So please do not respond with an essay wasting everyone's time with estimates from weeks ago that has nothing to do with the county I posted about. Thank you. And please do not sick the moderators on me again. Thanks

[PhaelixWW]

In law yes, because the government overpowers us and says "this is malicious, this is not". In medicine yes because we don't ask cancer's opinion, we just destroy it. In politics no, not until you can overpower your opposition to the point that they have no chance to reverse the situation.

Two sides in a conflict can disagree about which one is more malicious, but we don't need to wait for the conflict to be resolved; there are usually plenty of third parties who can determine the relative objectivity of either claim.

Of course, it's entirely possible for both sides in the conflict to be equally malicious.

[Felya]

Dr. Pepper doesn't count, neither does Doctor Scholl.

I will accept Dr. Dre as a subject matter expert.

Anticipated! Updated to more generic “medical professional”...

[Bcardi]

50x lower then 3.4% is still 200k dead in the US. 7x 'regular' flu deaths.

I'd say that is significant.

I should of used stronger words saying it was not going to be like the flu in rates. But 7x is worldly better then what we were hearing. On this thread you had people throwing out 500x the flu per European countries data.

So my point was more of thankfully this is no where near as deadly as was thought of. And that was from the experts, cause of course as they learned more about Covid-19 they were able to make better predictions with more data then the very early estimates.

7x is still horrible. But better then thought. Have to take the positives where we can