1. #17601
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Mask do protect you
    The virus is airborne and can be transmitted by talking - why masks and distance are important
    This is the kicker: Homemade masks do not prevent you from getting infected on their own.
    As soon as virus loaded droplets land on your mask, you're basically sucking the viral particles right through the fabric.

    Masks are only there to reduce the minimum distance needed and make social distancing more manageable.
    Still, using crammed public transportation is a roll of the dice. Mask or no mask.

  2. #17602
    So it turns out that there is the possibility that even an asymptomatic person can sustain damage through covid-19. The numbers of the tested people are still too few to say for sure, but there are several cases, where that is what happens. Further research is needed.




    Also, the video from the other thread that was closed (because we have this one) once again, just because it's kind of impressive seeing things actually visualized that you usually don't see



    There has also been a study about the protection masks grant http://ftp.iza.org/dp13319.pdf and the results indicate that masks are quite effective.

  3. #17603
    assuming they aren't lying, how the fuck has South Korea contained COVID so well? The plausibility of it being controlled is from how I don't find much news of outrage. I mean, if a third world country can do it like that, I'm pretty lost how America is in such shambles.
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-07-13 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Minor Trolling

  4. #17604
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    assuming they aren't lying, how the fuck has South Korea contained COVID so well? The plausibility of it being controlled is from how I don't find much news of outrage. I mean, if a third world country can do it like that, I'm pretty lost how America is in such shambles.
    Aggressive contact tracing, general mask wearing (Asians are used to it) and reacting a lot sooner.

    Also, them not going all "muh freedom!!11" surely helps.

  5. #17605
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    assuming they aren't lying, how the fuck has South Korea contained COVID so well? The plausibility of it being controlled is from how I don't find much news of outrage. I mean, if a third world country can do it like that, I'm pretty lost how America is in such shambles.
    Already common to wear masks, lack of land borders allowing for better control of what comes in combined with aggressive and early action.

    Really not that difficulty to see why.

    And South Korea is by no means a third world country, it is very much a first world country and has been for a while.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #17606
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    assuming they aren't lying, how the fuck has South Korea contained COVID so well? The plausibility of it being controlled is from how I don't find much news of outrage. I mean, if a third world country can do it like that, I'm pretty lost how America is in such shambles.
    lol wtf are you smoking? South Korea is NOT a third world country by any means. as with most asian countries people actually give a shit about others and most are wearing masks and social distacing like they should for one thing plus the government is tracking/tracing down and enforcing quarantine to people found positive and those they've come in contact with. they're also, as far as i recall, enforcing quarantine to travelers (or they were, not sure about now)

    asians tend to see themselves as a collective so they do what is necessary to protect everyone during times of need. they're not dumb like americans who see themselves as individuals and who have clearly shown they don't give two shits even about their own family members and think wearing a mask is infringing on their freedom.
    We cannot go back. That's why it's hard to choose. You have to make the right choice. As long as you don't choose, everything remains possible.

  7. #17607
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    assuming they aren't lying, how the fuck has South Korea contained COVID so well? The plausibility of it being controlled is from how I don't find much news of outrage. I mean, if a third world country can do it like that, I'm pretty lost how America is in such shambles.
    [Infraction]
    TRUMP.

    Failure of leadership in literally every category.

    Other nations have contained COVID-19 because their leaders acted swiftly based on available data. South Korea. Europe (most of them at least). New Zealand. Hell - NZ will be a case study in how to almost perfectly respond to a pandemic. They have at last count single digit numbers for their entire country.

    A friend of mine happens to be a mid-level government official (emigrated), and he gave me NZ's run down on their response. They did a 3-5 year analysis on shutting down 100% for a month, and preventing anyone else from entering, and quarantining them for 14 days if they had to enter. Now they are slowly opening the country back up, with the same precautions. Their data told them that the impact on the country would be far less, long term, doing it this way.
    Last edited by cubby; 2020-07-13 at 03:16 PM.

  8. #17608
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    TRUMP.

    Failure of leadership in literally every category.
    To be blunt: I think it is too easy to blame this on only one man.
    If he has that much power, your political system needs a revision.

  9. #17609
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    To be blunt: I think it is too easy to blame this on only one man.
    If he has that much power, your political system needs a revision.
    He's the head of the Executive branch. It's his branches job to lead an effort against a national pandemic, just as its the governor's jobs to lead the effort in their state (they're the head of the Excutive branch there too) and mayors within their cities.

    So when the guy at the top isn't taking it seriously, that causes a lot of negative affects. It's not that the job has "too much power", it's that its powers, as with the Legislature and the Judiciary, are important as fuck. And such a monumental failure of leadership like there has never been before (to co-opt some of Trump's language) can have disasterous effects.

  10. #17610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And such a monumental failure of leadership like there has never been before (to co-opt some of Trump's language) can have disasterous effects.
    Yes but shouldn't the executive branch be able to overrule him?
    I mean the scientific data speaks for itself, at this point even clearly enough that even the common man can see that the leader's judgement is incorrect.

    It is difficult to imagine, that one man can be such a detriment to the very society he swore to serve. I wonder if the same could happen in Germany.

  11. #17611
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yes but shouldn't the executive branch be able to overrule him?
    ...what? He's the elected representative of the USA leading the Executive Branch. He's literally the boss there, employees serve at his pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I mean the scientific data speaks for itself, at this point even clearly enough that even the common man can see that the leader's judgement is incorrect.
    If facts mattered as much as you, and I, wish they did, the course of US history would be radically different. Unfortunately, there are no provisions in the Constitution regarding "facts", or even good-faith governance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It is difficult to imagine, that one man can be such a detriment to the very society he swore to serve. I wonder if the same could happen in Germany.
    It's been happening for a long time. Vietnam being a great example of presidents engaging in dangerous and stupid behavior despite many of them either having direct evidence that the war was a pointless waste of time, money, and lives and an utter disaster without any meaningful benefit to the US, and the advisors they hired absolutely did.

    But that didn't stop the US from staying in the war officially and unofficially for well over a decade, repeating the same bad mistakes over and over.

    This is just the natural consequence of a failure of leadership and with a corrupted party that refuses to hold their party leader accountable. It's technically possible in any democratic nation to a greater or lesser extent. It's just rare that it happens to this degree.

  12. #17612
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    ...what? He's the elected representative of the USA leading the Executive Branch. He's literally the boss there, employees serve at his pleasure.
    And that is exactly the problem. One man should not have that much power, after all, that's why we have multiple representatives.
    Corruption and blind support by the party is certainly another grave problem for you, esp. since you seem to lack a strong political opposition that could veto his party's decisions.

    Anyhow, thanks for your insights, lets not derail this any further.

  13. #17613
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    And that is exactly the problem. One man should not have that much power, after all, that's why we have multiple representatives.
    It's not greatly dissimilar from many other democratic countries. The difference being they don't have suicidal lunatics surrounded by sycophants in their respective executive branches.

    We have a Legislature, the House/Senate. The issues are more on the fact that 1. They've consistently ceded authorities to the Executive branch for decades (none applicable here that I know of, but plenty of others) and 2. It's literally not their job to lead the response. They are the ones that write the legislation to provide additional funding etc., but even that has problems when one party seems far more interested in providing legal immunity to businesses that operate irresponsibly and get employees/customers sick.

    TLDR: System is "fine", not terribly better or worse than any other democracy out there right now. The problem is that the political landscape in the US has fallen apart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Corruption and blind support by the party is certainly another grave problem for you, esp. since you seem to lack a strong political opposition that could veto his party's decisions.
    Agreed on the former, the latter isn't really an entirely accurate view of the way the US government operates. There is no way to "veto" his decisions really. The Legislature can pass laws that could neuter certain efforts etc., but he'd veto those and it's difficult to override a presidential veto. Beyond that, that's not really specifically the role of the Legislature. They're co-equal branches (at least in theory), they have different powers.

    All that being said, I think that the past 3+ years, and especially the past 6+ months, have been positively illuminating on the myriad ways in which the office can be corrupted and the duty done in bad faith to the detriment of the country. And I think it should spark a lot of difficult conversations about further rules/limits for both the Executive and Legislative branch, as we've seen both dishonestly weaponized for purely partisan gain rather than putting the country first.

  14. #17614
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    To be blunt: I think it is too easy to blame this on only one man.
    If he has that much power, your political system needs a revision.
    It entirely easy because it's 100% fact. Utter and abject failure of leadership. At this very moment he is saying that the CDC is fake, our top scientist is being actively discredited by his office, and Trump is insisting the virus is "nothing to worry about, and should be gone in a couple of weeks".

    Meanwhile, the exact opposite is true. Factually. Objectively.

  15. #17615
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I wonder if the same could happen in Germany.
    Of course it could, given enough time. Ultimately no nation on this planet is safe from something like this, people like trump come about when there is something seriously wrong in their society.

  16. #17616
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    Croatia and Serbia seems to have increased numbers of casses. I have a felling we will close the border soon.

  17. #17617
    We have only had 2 deaths in my province from it so far, thankfully most of Canada has sparse populations on the east coast. This is why big cities are garbage, too many people which is just a pandemic waiting to happen.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

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  18. #17618
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    It entirely easy because it's 100% fact. Utter and abject failure of leadership. At this very moment he is saying that the CDC is fake, our top scientist is being actively discredited by his office, and Trump is insisting the virus is "nothing to worry about, and should be gone in a couple of weeks".
    It boggles my mind that you guys have no way of stopping such a person. Ho much harm does he need to cause in order for him to get kicked out?

  19. #17619
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/mask-resi...115358176.html

    Mask resistance during a pandemic isn't new – in 1918 many Americans were 'slackers'

    In Seattle, streetcar conductors refused to turn away unmasked passengers. Noncompliance was so widespread in Oakland that officials deputized 300 War Service civilian volunteers to secure the names and addresses of violators so they could be charged. When a mask order went into effect in Sacramento, the police chief instructed officers to “Go out on the streets, and whenever you see a man without a mask, bring him in or send for the wagon.” Within 20 minutes, police stations were flooded with offenders. In San Francisco, there were so many arrests that the police chief warned city officials he was running out of jail cells. Judges and officers were forced to work late nights and weekends to clear the backlog of cases.

    Many who were caught without masks thought they might get away with running an errand or commuting to work without being nabbed. In San Francisco, however, initial noncompliance turned to large-scale defiance when the city enacted a second mask ordinance in January 1919 as the epidemic spiked anew. Many decried what they viewed as an unconstitutional infringement of their civil liberties. On January 25, 1919, approximately 2,000 members of the “Anti-Mask League” packed the city’s old Dreamland Rink for a rally denouncing the mask ordinance and proposing ways to defeat it. Attendees included several prominent physicians and a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors.
    I'm sorry but when the same problems crop every 100 years, then there is a fundamental rot in this country that needs to be addressed. We are entitled and pathetic as a nation and we need to start valuing logic, reason and science over emotion, selfishness and faith.
    Last edited by Bodakane; 2020-07-13 at 05:42 PM.

  20. #17620
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It boggles my mind that you guys have no way of stopping such a person. Ho much harm does he need to cause in order for him to get kicked out?
    The issue isn't that he says all that stuff, because he doesn't directly control the people and can't make laws by himself.

    The major problem is the huge number of people that believe him, follow him, and borderline worship him and believe and spout the same bullshit he does about science being fake, that the experts don't know what they're doing or that the virus itself is a hoax.

    On one hand, I completely agree that he's harming the nation with all the crap he says...but on the other, the only reason that's happening is because of the morons that don't think for themselves and just follow what he says. He's not making them do it, they're doing it themselves.

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