Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Rasulis]

Seems more likely the hospitalised patients are actually infected with Delta, it didn't just disappear out of sight just because Omicron came around. I had Omicron over christmas, sore throat for a couple days and general cold symptoms, very mild. The original COVID left me with brain fog for months, I was coughing for 3 months (this is back in early 2020).

Very unlikely scenario. Prior to Omicron, cases, hospitalization and mortality due to Delta were on a long-term steady downward trend in the US. The current increase in hospitalization, and the upward tick in mortality started well after Omicron became the dominant variant.

[unfilteredJW]

If I could have taken any treatment for it in early 2020 I would have, I felt off for months. And yeah I've seen a few things showing the vaccine can be worthwhile for recovery, that was part of the official advice given on mainstream news here for a while but I've not seen anything concrete to show that as truth either, it's not a point I'm gonna sit and argue either way.

He wants credit for inventing the MRNA tech, based on his research and papers from the late 1980s. If you look enough into it you can find plenty of supporting evidence to say "yes, no, maybe?" (like this guy's extensive dive into the topic Did Robert Malone invent mRNA vaccines?but in the end Nature (an actual science journal website) is giving him a fair chunk of credit, a site with far more credibility than "The Atlantic" of all places. Either way I don't think we need to die on a hill for this topic as in the end it's irrelevant, his history as a scientist in the medical field is extensive to consider him an expert without that claim.

He may have made some claims that he cannot prove and then he should not have shared them, but one retweet does not make a career. The reality is the whole frontpage of the net is setup to reject anything and everything that goes against the flow. This British Medical Journal for example is exactly why transparency is important, but talking about it is grounds for getting banned in many places, probably here too given I've already had 2 infractions.

The reality is once again Rogan since going crazy post Covid platformed someone pushing misinformation and the ape and his listeners are it up as usual.

[Machismo]

If I could have taken any treatment for it in early 2020 I would have, I felt off for months. And yeah I've seen a few things showing the vaccine can be worthwhile for recovery, that was part of the official advice given on mainstream news here for a while but I've not seen anything concrete to show that as truth either, it's not a point I'm gonna sit and argue either way.

He wants credit for inventing the MRNA tech, based on his research and papers from the late 1980s. If you look enough into it you can find plenty of supporting evidence to say "yes, no, maybe?" (like this guy's extensive dive into the topic Did Robert Malone invent mRNA vaccines?but in the end Nature (an actual science journal website) is giving him a fair chunk of credit, a site with far more credibility than "The Atlantic" of all places. Either way I don't think we need to die on a hill for this topic as in the end it's irrelevant, his history as a scientist in the medical field is extensive to consider him an expert without that claim.

He may have made some claims that he cannot prove and then he should not have shared them, but one retweet does not make a career. The reality is the whole frontpage of the net is setup to reject anything and everything that goes against the flow. This British Medical Journal for example is exactly why transparency is important, but talking about it is grounds for getting banned in many places, probably here too given I've already had 2 infractions.



This isn't a Joe Rogan bro topic, there has been a lot of coverage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418123 - science direct journal - platelet factor -4 - Some references here on UK gov site https://www.gov.uk/government/public...19-vaccination - Some more in this study from science.org snip

Here in the UK aspiration was always done until quite recently, it's even still in the guidelines for proper vaccine administration on the NHS website.

How many studies do you wat to see?

The sheer discrepancy in hospitalizations and deaths should be enough.

[Edge-]

This isn't a Joe Rogan bro topic, there has been a lot of coverage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418123 - science direct journal - platelet factor -4 - Some references here on UK gov site https://www.gov.uk/government/public...19-vaccination - Some more in this study from science.org snip

This seems separate, especially since neither seems to mention aspiration. It became a "thing" on the internet late last year after Joe Rogan, noted vaccine expert, decided that he knew more than everyone else and decided to talk about how folks giving vaccines weren't doing it right and the vaccines wouldn't work because they weren't aspirating.

Because he doesn't know that you don't need to aspirate for the vast majority of vaccines, just when you inject roids into your ass and shit.

Here in the UK aspiration was always done until quite recently, it's even still in the guidelines for proper vaccine administration on the NHS website.

Ok and...? It's not done in the US yet we're not seeing millions dying from...whatever.

Blood clots have been known about since the early days, IIRC it was the AZ vaccine that was causing those issues too. And it seems that per the data, it's still beyond rare and that the risk of a blood clot is far, far, far lower than your risk of a serious/fatal case of covid if you're unvaccinated -

These clots, known as vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia, have been linked to 73 deaths out of nearly 50 million doses of AstraZeneca given in the UK.

Even the link to the BMJ article, which is important, seems a bit wonky. They uncovered bad practices at 3 of the 153 testing locations. Worth calling out, worth the review (I didn't get through all the followups to see what the hearing resulted in yet), worth improved oversight and penalties for the companies involved. But thus far doesn't seem to undermine the broader data from the Pfizer trials, which from what I recall have data that largely mirrors what we're seeing with the vaccine out in the wild.

[Bigbazz]

Very unlikely scenario. Prior to Omicron, cases, hospitalization and mortality due to Delta were on a long-term steady downward trend in the US. The current increase in hospitalization, and the upward tick in mortality started well after Omicron became the dominant variant.

That's not really clear though, I've seen a fair few professional opinions that support either way and we know that Delta was much more severe. Every winter (at least here in miserable wet britain) we have a pretty rough flu season every year, we also had large surges in COVID cases (last christmas for example). And while Omicron is spreading like wildfire the vast majority of cases are mild (that is not a personal claim, that's from the horses mouth british government). I have a lot of close family that works in medical and my niece works on the COVID ward in the local hospital, barely anyone in there but they have had a lot of people test positive that were at the hospital for unrelated reasons.

Looking at the South Africa data (or rather listening to the youtuber Dr John Campbell who has been covering all COVID news/science daily) suggests Omicron is really great news for us all, in the medium-long term. I'm skeptical that it will be anywhere even close to last year in terms of the pressure on health services, apart from perhaps the fact that so many people are getting Omicron and having to isolate, so health workers are understaffed.

[Lenonis]

The reality is the whole frontpage of the net is setup to reject anything and everything that goes against the flow.

you misspelled "lies and misinformation."

And guess what - spreading that nonsense here will also get you banned as you should be.

[Bigbazz]

you misspelled "lies and misinformation."

And guess what - spreading that nonsense here will also get you banned as you should be.

Nonsense like the British Medical Journal? Alright champ.

[Captain N]

Are we talking about the same John Campbell who is a retired nurse and was caught lying in November of last year for claiming that ivermectin was responsible for the drop in Japan's COVID cases? Or is this the same John Campbell who repeated a debunked claim in a non-peer reviewed article by Steven Gundry that vaccines cause heart problems?

[Edge-]

Nonsense like the British Medical Journal? Alright champ.

No, but what you're doing in misrepresenting it. Using that article to question the credibility of EVERYTHING vaccine related, or all of Pfizer's vaccines, is not reflective of the content of the article. Which was specific to I believe 3 out of the 150+ testing locations.

Is it important reporting? Yes. I haven't followed up on the hearing and everything else, but it's good that it was identified and that remedies can be worked on, even if Pfizer is continuing to work with the company on other trials.

Does it call into question Pfizer's vaccine writ large? No, not really. No more than a bad batch of vaccines being made calls a vaccine into question.

[Lenonis]

Nonsense like the British Medical Journal? Alright champ.

Are you just flat out incapable of honesty discourse? You claimed the entirety of the front page net, not the British medical journal.

[Bigbazz]

No, but what you're doing in misrepresenting it. Using that article to question the credibility of EVERYTHING vaccine related, or all of Pfizer's vaccines, is not reflective of the content of the article. Which was specific to I believe 3 out of the 150+ testing locations.

Is it important reporting? Yes. I haven't followed up on the hearing and everything else, but it's good that it was identified and that remedies can be worked on, even if Pfizer is continuing to work with the company on other trials.

Does it call into question Pfizer's vaccine writ large? No, not really. No more than a bad batch of vaccines being made calls a vaccine into question.

Don't put words into my mouth, I was highlighting the importance of transparency by using the BMJ as an example. I'm not making any claims about any of the vaccines, but for sure I think the idea of transparent informed consent is everything we should strive for. It feels like people are extremely averse to discussing anything on this topic.

It's like on a knife edge, everyone is on edge and everyone wants to jump down each others throats. The moderator's are twitching to infract me because they think I have some agenda. I have my opinions but I'm largely a fence sitter. I had COVID and I recovered, I had the Oxford vaccines and got on with my life (like by and large most of the population here who have been in pre-covid mode since late spring, at least until the 26th of Dec). I came on to MMO champion and just strolled into the thread to see people wishing they could ship anti-vaxxers off to some island to die, people like that disgust me.

The reality is you can't discuss the topic in this thread, you have to walk on egg shells around every topic.

[Machismo]

Don't put words into my mouth, I was highlighting the importance of transparency by using the BMJ as an example. I'm not making any claims about any of the vaccines, but for sure I think the idea of transparent informed consent is everything we should strive for. It feels like people are extremely averse to discussing anything on this topic.

It's like on a knife edge, everyone is on edge and everyone wants to jump down each others throats. The moderator's are twitching to infract me because they think I have some agenda. I have my opinions but I'm largely a fence sitter. I had COVID and I recovered, I had the Oxford vaccines and got on with my life (like by and large most of the population here who have been in pre-covid mode since late spring, at least until the 26th of Dec). I came on to MMO champion and just strolled into the thread to see people wishing they could ship anti-vaxxers off to some island to die, people like that disgust me.

The reality is you can't discuss the topic in this thread, you have to walk on egg shells around every topic.

The efficacy of vaccines, and their safety, should be beyond doubt at this point. The vaccine is FAR BETTER than the alternative.

[Rasulis]

That's not really clear though, I've seen a fair few professional opinions that support either way and we know that Delta was much more severe. Every winter (at least here in miserable wet britain) we have a pretty rough flu season every year, we also had large surges in COVID cases (last christmas for example). And while Omicron is spreading like wildfire the vast majority of cases are mild (that is not a personal claim, that's from the horses mouth british government). I have a lot of close family that works in medical and my niece works on the COVID ward in the local hospital, barely anyone in there but they have had a lot of people test positive that were at the hospital for unrelated reasons.

Looking at the South Africa data (or rather listening to the youtuber Dr John Campbell who has been covering all COVID news/science daily) suggests Omicron is really great news for us all, in the medium-long term. I'm skeptical that it will be anywhere even close to last year in terms of the pressure on health services, apart from perhaps the fact that so many people are getting Omicron and having to isolate, so health workers are understaffed.

You can't compare US to South Africa. The majority of cases in South Africa were reinfection. So far in the US the cases are concentrated in the urban areas which tend to have both high vaccination rate and covid exposure, and mimic South Africa closely. The real test for the US would be when Omicron takes hold in the rural and semi-rural communities with low vaccination and lower exposure to covid. Basically, regions with large segment of population with Covid naive immune system.

It should be noted that high vaccination rate does make a big difference in term of hospitalization and mortality. Case in point - San Francisco and Miami-Dade.

[Edge-]

Don't put words into my mouth, I was highlighting the importance of transparency by using that study as an example. I'm not making any claims about any of the vaccines, but for sure I think the idea of transparent informed consent is everything we should strive for. It feels like people are extremely averse to discussing anything on this topic.

Highlighting by whinging that it's being prevented from being on "the front page of the internet" which it's not.

There's simply not much to discuss here. A single company running a few trial locations fucked up bigtime, but the overall quality of the data seems largely unimpacted and it seems isolated to that lone company and those few trial locations. Until more information comes out indicating this may be a bigger/more widespread problem, there's really not a whole lot to say on the matter.

It's like on a knife edge, everyone is on edge and everyone wants to jump down each others throats.

To a point, sure. But that's because you have both the explicit anti-vax/covid misinformation folks popping up in this thread, plus the, "I'm just asking questions!" crowd that are spreading misinformation, plus the "I get my medical advice from Joe Rogan, PHd." crowd.

I came on to MMO champion and just strolled into the threat to see people wishing they could ship anti-vaxxers off to some island to die, people like that disgust me.

I see less of the "die" bit, but I'm firmly on board with shipping anti-vaxxers off to an island. They're fucking this up for the rest of us and seemingly doing everything in their power to turn this into a "forever" pandemic rather than doing everything within their power to end this as quickly as possible.

And then go out and protest and complain about the restrictions and cause more outbreaks, like that anti-vax convention that left a huge number of attendees infected with covid. Which they all, of course, denied and said it was anthrax.

The reality is you can't discuss the topic in this thread.

Sure you can, it happens every single day. People disagree all the time, too.

[PhaelixWW]

The reality is you can't discuss the topic in this thread, you have to walk on egg shells around every topic.

Stating factually inaccurate things is not "discussing the topic". And if you do state factually inaccurate things, expect pushback.

And let's be clear; all you've really done is complain about what you undeservedly feel is a "hit piece" and made wild conspiracy theory accusations about journalism in general. You have yet to articulate a single point that backs up your position.

[Lenonis]

I'm largely a fence sitter.

It's a shame you don't recognize this for the problem it is.

[Bigbazz]

It's a shame you don't recognize this for the problem it is.

It's not a problem, it's a positive. I don't care what you or anyone else does with their lives. I made my choice and I got on with my life. I follow the news, I give everyone a fair chance and I don't buy into character assassination articles written by disreputable drama websites. It's like I don't get my news from The Sun, there are better sources for information if I wanted to get a more balanced and unbiased view, a more complete view with less fabrication and dramatics.

I'm a fence sitter on most topics (go see me pingponging in the F1 thread), and if someone is to say something that might in the wrong context sound off I want to understand their true meaning or intent, their angle, context is core to understanding. On the contrary a lot of people here like to give themselves a favourable position in an argument by misrepresenting, in that case it's not a discussion or a communication between two or more people, it's just warfare and It's a waste of everyone's time. There are a few posters here who I think are reasonable and fair, Edge is one of them, Forogil and Rasulis too. I can have a discussion with them and we can agree or disagree, but too many of you think this is a battlefield and I've invaded your territory.

It's not a battlefield, and nothing is gained by treating it like that.

[unfilteredJW]

It's not a problem, it's a positive. I don't care what you or anyone else does with their lives. I made my choice and I got on with my life. I follow the news, I give everyone a fair chance and I don't buy into character assassination articles written by disreputable drama websites. It's like I don't get my news from The Sun, there are better sources for information if I wanted to get a more balanced and unbiased view, a more complete view with less fabrication and dramatics.

I'm a fence sitter on most topics, and if someone is to say something that might in the wrong context sound off I want to understand their true meaning or intent, their angle, context is core to understanding. On the contrary a lot of people here like to give themselves a favourable position in an argument by misrepresenting, in that case it's not a discussion or a communication between two or more people, it's just warfare and It's a waste of everyone's time. There are a few posters here who I think are reasonable and fair, Edge is one of them, Forogil and Rasulis too. I can have a discussion with them and we can agree or disagree, but too many of you think this is a battlefield and I've invaded your territory.

It's not a battlefield, and nothing is gained by treating it like that.

The faux enlightened middle everyone.

[Bigbazz]

The faux enlightened middle everyone.

It's not about enlightenment, I don't care what your opinion is. If you're going to argue it then do it honestly and calmly, it aint a battlefield. People don't like fence sitters, it makes people mad, I get that but whatever. I'm not a leader, I don't have tough decisions to make so I'll sit on my fence thank you very much.

Are we talking about the same John Campbell who is a retired nurse and was caught lying in November of last year for claiming that ivermectin was responsible for the drop in Japan's COVID cases? Or is this the same John Campbell who repeated a debunked claim in a non-peer reviewed article by Steven Gundry that vaccines cause heart problems?

Technically he's a Nurse trainer PHD who trained Nurses. He makes new videos on all new research on a daily basis so you should expect it to be a bit hit and miss. I saw the drama about the Japan vid but he retracted the claims about Japan and Ivermectin after some Japanese people claimed it wasn't really the case, and I think he has tightened up his approach since then. Ivermectin is a topic I won't get into because I know nothing about it, it's used in some places to treat the virus but it's not used here.

I think the problem is if you discuss any new data/studies and you're doing it as soon as the stuff hits the wild you're going to end up hit/miss a bit. But watch some of his stuff, he's very knowledgeable and contrary to what your post might suggest here he's very strongly in the pro-vaccine camp and in line with the general concensus.

[unfilteredJW]

It's not about enlightenment, I don't care what your opinion is. If you're going to argue it then do it honestly and calmly, it aint a battlefield. People don't like fence sitters, it makes people mad, I get that but whatever. I'm not a leader, I don't have tough decisions to make so I'll sit on my fence thank you very much.

The corpses of members of my community due to vaccine and Covid misinformation pushed by the likes of you and Rogan has, in fact, made this into a battlefield.

You just lack the stones to admit you fired shots.