Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.
time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.
you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...
MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.
Uhm... 180000 dead... here is a prediction, more blood... lol
Because consistency is what’s at play here...i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.
180000 dead... If you think media is fearmongering now, who is going to be the arbiter, once “wait and see” bares fruit?time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.
What? That the president of US is telling us to ignore doctors and medical professionals? No... I don’t see politicians for my medical care... nor do I trust a real estate mogul, to shut down his business, to save lives.you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
Not only are we not the same based on that quote, I don’t think you know what it means and what role you play in it. Snoochie Boochies... 420 brah!!
Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi
Lets add some context of exactly what 190,000 people means, so that we can tell if it is "Fear-mongering".
Lets assume you live to 80 years old. Lets assume you meet and interact with 3 new people a day on average, which is pretty generous for most people. That is about 80,000 people. So this has killed more then twice as many people as you will ever speak to in your life.
How about a different example: The 2007 Troop surge in Iraq under Obama sent our total Troop numbers in Iraq to 176,000. Imagine if every single one of them died in a six month period. Would it be overreacting to consider that a really big deal?
How about comparing it to historical big deals? During WWII, an average of 220 Americans died in combat per day. Yesterday over 1,000 Americans died of Covid-19. It peaked at 2,700 per day. It has been over 220 every day since March 24, when it first crossed that number.
WWI? About 50,000 combat deaths, and about 114,000 total deaths for the US (Mostly disease for the rest). That was about 18 months of war, Covid-19 took 4 months to shatter those numbers.
Covid-19 has killed more Americans then every hurricane that has hit the US combined.
So how, exactly, is it still fear mongering at this point? How, exactly, is not taking it seriously at this point a rational perspective? Covid-19 is different from those examples because it is far less visual. You don't see the mass of coffins usually, you don't see footage on the news of people dying, because they are dying in hospital beds all over the US, one at a time. It is far easier to ignore, but the devastation is still there, it is just spread out.
I had no intention of saying that the US is doing great.
Merely that Europe haven't solved the issue either.
I used the data from WHO, https://covid19.who.int/ where the "Europe" region for historic reasons include former Soviet Union and Israel - since that site can show a nice graph of how the weekly cases are changing per region.
However, the exact boundaries don't matter - as the relevant part is that it is increasing (although slowly) and that is to a large extent due to EU countries; and the reported numbers are so far from the truth that arguing whether they are 237k 216k is fairly meaningless.
And the US increase was that it was holding steady at about 294k and then dropped to 290k on Sept 1 back to 296k on Sept 2. That seems like bad averaging due to small changes in reporting time to me - and not any substantial change.
I'm not denying that the US numbers might increase again - but that isn't the clear evidence.
Added: And I don't know what you mean with "Now, if you mean the European Union, that is consisting of 44 countries.". EU has 27 member countries at the moment.
Last edited by Forogil; 2020-09-03 at 01:58 PM.
Right, but I consider that even more an argument in favor of taking this seriously. The wars I listed mostly killed Americans who went to fight in that war (Obviously wars tend to be very indiscriminate in killing people in the places that war is being fought, but I am specifically referring to American Soldier deaths here). People whose job it was to endanger themselves, people who could fight back and influence the conflict they were in. Covid kills average Americans, regardless of their participation or lack thereof. You can't be a conscientious objector from Covid. Bone Spurs won't save you. Or spending time in the Texas National Guard or moving to Canada.
Diseases, by their nature, prey mostly on the most vulnerable parts of our society. You know, the people society is supposed to protect. When society gives a full rejection of its duty to protect its weakest members, then that is a shit society. The entire point of having a society in the first place is to protect people who are at a stage of their life where they cannot fully contribute, either because they are too young or too old. If that is necessary, then society isn't necessary, the strongest people should just take care of themselves.
People of Donetsk in general are shifting more and more towards denier stance. We're back to school too. How long would it take for cases to increase, several weeks?
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I understand that your discussion was USA-specific, and for people from USA their opinion on the pandemic is predetermined by their party affiliation, this is a political issue for y'all instead of healthcare related, but Covid is a global issue so I'll reply to this, and to the repeated question "how is this number overhyped?".
Before I get to the 180k number (190k by now) - Covid is the worst pandemic in 50 years, keep that in mind. Even in the last 100 years, only Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu pandemics were worse than Covid. We should take this seriously and act accordingly. You know, masks, distancing, no mass gatherings, only essential travel. All this is annoying but necessary, people die during a pandemic and there's no need to make it worse. Annoying and boring.
Now 190k deaths. That's approximately how many people die in USA every 2.5 weeks. Spread over 7-8 months, this number means that Covid caused ~10% deaths in USA over this period. This is significant, and as I said, we should take this seriously and act accordingly.
Overhyped part is when people start comparing the planet to their house and go crazy. 190k is a large number, but did y'all go crazy every 2.5 weeks your whole life? No? Are y'all hypocrites? 190k babies are born every 12 hours on this planet, why aren't y'all celebrating every one of them? Only fearmongering is worthwhile?
When you talk about huge global numbers, you should only compare them to other huge global numbers, otherwise you're misinterpreting and overhyping them.
*shocked pikachu*
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The problem with the absolutist mentality of looking at deaths only is that the number of critically ill and those with long term health problems is greater than those who die.
The other issue with the "that many people die each X number of days" is that those deaths also don't stop. People still have falls, heart attacks, strokes, etc.
You still on this track?
Time will tell? So 250,000 excess deaths at least 190k already directly related to COVID is not enough to tell? Huge outbreak, small downward trend and a spike back up to record territory is not enough "time" to tell it was not fearmongering?
You sound exactly like states of Florida, Texas and most of the south-midwest in April-May. Look where they are now and what has happened in the past few months.
Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!
The official death toll is at 870k. With all the uncounted excess death, the actual total is likely around 1.2m. That puts COVID within the top 10 or so pandemics by death toll in all of history. And this pandemic isn't over yet.
The kind of people who shrug off any reasonable amount of precaution or concern as "fearmongering" are not just delusional, but intentionally so and proud of it.
Ignorance can be solved with education, but willful, boastful stupidity can't be fixed.
"The difference between stupidity
and genius is that genius has its limits."
--Alexandre Dumas-fils
https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus...ls-say-1529576
This is how easy it is to cause an outbreak. One wedding with a few dozen attendees, one sick person, well over a hundred new cases directly traced back to it and likely far more that haven't been discovered yet.The Maine wedding that led to multiple coronavirus outbreaks throughout the state has now been associated with 144 positive coronavirus cases, more than six times the number of linked cases initially reported by state health officials.
Dr. Nirav Shah, director of the Maine Center for Disease Control and Prevention (Maine CDC), announced the updated numbers at a Thursday press conference. The wedding, which took place August 7 at the Big Moose Inn in Millinocket, has caused known outbreaks at the York County Jail in Alfred and the Maplecrest Rehabilitation Center in Madison.
The Maine CDC announced its investigation into the wedding August 17, reporting 24 positive COVID-19 cases among wedding guests. That number has since increased sixfold to 144 cases. One additional death linked to the wedding has been determined, bringing the total fatalities to two, Shah said.
...
Of the 144 cases, 56 were determined to be guests at the wedding, or their secondary or tertiary contacts, Shah said. One of these secondary contacts happens to work at Maplecrest, and the facility now has eight infected residents and an additional seven infected staff members.
this place is the absolute most intolerant place i've ever experienced in my life.
i wish you all well.
No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...
You are surprised? You brought nothing but disinformation, literally based on your feels (you said that yourself), and then got all huffy when people dared to challenge your for it. If you are making big, bold claims and call them facts, you are expected to be able to back them up with something. I suppose you could call that intolerance. Intolerance towards bullshit.
I think it's obvious right now that the CDC and the FDA are severely compromised and we should take everything they say with a giant grain of salt. They are now just another part of Trump's effort to get re-elected that's the only way to explain the Nov. 1st vaccine rush. We are about to pull a Putin and give vaccines that are not safe or effective to people just so Trump can gain a few points in the polls.