If Horrific Visions is anything to go by, Torghast is DOA

[faithbane]

Warfronts, yes. Island Adventures not so much. I found the Warfront system to be fun but mostly unrealized - so the hope is that the developers can take the failures of the Warfront system and iterate on them for Torghast.

Honestly, if they use visions as a base to build torghast on, I think there is a great potential!! but I don't dare to be optimistic anymore since what we receive from blizzard over and over recently is the bare minimum.. sometimes subjectively less even

[Eurhetemec]

You must be missing six days of the week if you think this is "weekly"

Yeah really, the infinite capacity of posters to make no effort at all to understand a system, and instead just make up a wild fantasy about how its going to suck never ceases to impress.

Visions are a testbed for some of the functionality of Torghast, not the same thing as it.

Torghast is basically attempting to give WoW a sort of "Dead Cells" within the framework of WoW. That may or may not work out, but that's very different to visions. The lack of a time limit or similar is an absolutely huge difference, too. I mean, do WoW players not play Roguelikes? Do people not understand that this is like WoW + Dead Cells or Slay The Spire or Hades?

I'm not a huge fan of visions but that comes down to the aesthetics and most importantly the time limit imposed by sanity. Neither is present in Torghast and the aesthetic looks pretty cool. The randomized levels and gameplay-changing stuff you can randomly access each run should keep it pretty fresh for anyone who likes that kind of thing, which isn't going to be everyone. Some people will loathe it - some people hate all Roguelikes, but some people hate raiding or questing and tons of people hate PvP and even more people hate arenas, doesn't mean they shouldn't be in WoW.

[micwini]

I think it is a good start. I have two very big gripes at the moment:
1. Timegating. If this Torghast is timegated like this and I can not even do it just to practise or for fun, it will feel a lot more stressful. You have less tries, thus more pressure which just sucks, especially if you fail. "Gues ill try next week" is not a fun feeling.
2. RNG. There is too much RNG in the visions currently. Potion spawn locations, the location of the buff and what you need to do for it, the randomly spawning mob at low sanity, the time and positioning of the disorienting circle, the proc of the sanity immunity buff, etc. etc. Dumb combinations can quickly end your run and there is nothing you can do about it. There is also less room for optimization, because you have to keep every single RNG thing in mind, ruining the whole spirit.

[FlubberPuddy]

Guys... remember how Warfronts and Islands were good on paper and then what we got...

Remember how Mage Tower was so fun? Torghast is another MT. And not timed. Already makes it better in my eyes. Especially since Visions themselves are fun.

[Kithelle]

I supposed you missed the point that a key feature of Torghast is that it'll be different every run - Visions aren't. Plus it's not timed so you can take as long as you like - so you can play whatever you like.

^ yup this

Feels like this is just another DOOM overreaction threads that seem to be popular, ugh the alpha/beta can't get here soon enough.

[Hitei]

Remember how Mage Tower was so fun? Torghast is another MT. And not timed. Already makes it better in my eyes. Especially since Visions themselves are fun.

Also multiplayer.

I honestly think Torghast has the potential to be a lot bigger deal than the general interpretation of it that seems to be floating around. People are focusing on covenants but Torghast is a pretty robust system that I could easily see being a staple part of expansions going forward. You could just slap the sort of recolor transmog and mounts/pets/toys that are found on islands in Torghast and it would be a very strong endgame activity as currently described.

[chiddie]

Thorghast will be different because there’s no FREAKIN AND FOKKIN timer.

Timers are the ruin for everyone who want to solo something and do not play a dps spec.

I as a blood dk completely gave up with visions because to reach a level that is worth a gear upgrade you have to wear tons of bis corrupted stuff plus forge of Titans talents complete plus cloak at level 9000. Just a big NO.

Get rid of timers everywhere and the game will be good again.

[FlubberPuddy]

Also multiplayer.

I honestly think Torghast has the potential to be a lot bigger deal than the general interpretation of it that seems to be floating around. People are focusing on covenants but Torghast is a pretty robust system that I could easily see being a staple part of expansions going forward. You could just slap the sort of recolor transmog and mounts/pets/toys that are found on islands in Torghast and it would be a very strong endgame activity as currently described.

Very true, an infinite dungeon has the potential to be a new kind of staple endgame activity. It almost reminds me of Fractals from GW2.

[Garretdejiko]

Isn't Torghast Blizz's comeback for FFXIV's Palace of the Dead? If so, Torghast should be good at least.

[Hitei]

Isn't Torghast Blizz's comeback for FFXIV's Palace of the Dead? If so, Torghast should be good at least.

Don't really think it has anything to do with FFXIV. It's the same general rogue-like system you see in hundreds of games. Risk of Rain, Hearthstone, Dead Cells, Slay the Spire(?), Mobile games like AFK Arena, etc. The variable upgrades lean a lot closer to RoR/Hearthstone/AFK's Arcane Labyrinth than FFXIV's Pomanders(?).

[apples]

I think it is a good start. I have two very big gripes at the moment:
1. Timegating. If this Torghast is timegated like this and I can not even do it just to practise or for fun, it will feel a lot more stressful. You have less tries, thus more pressure which just sucks, especially if you fail. "Gues ill try next week" is not a fun feeling.
2. RNG. There is too much RNG in the visions currently. Potion spawn locations, the location of the buff and what you need to do for it, the randomly spawning mob at low sanity, the time and positioning of the disorienting circle, the proc of the sanity immunity buff, etc. etc. Dumb combinations can quickly end your run and there is nothing you can do about it. There is also less room for optimization, because you have to keep every single RNG thing in mind, ruining the whole spirit.

"managing rng is too hard that means theres literally no way to manage rng"

ok zoomer

[Sweetdeal]

Im enjoying Visions (hoping to complete 5 masks when Org is up again). Will I continue to enjoy them once Ive cleared 5-masks a few times? Probably not, but this was just patch content (but do we know how long Torghast will stay current?).

I'm so happy about this solo content I can do on my own time without DC screwing over a mythic, and the chore of getting a mythic group with my raider.io scored that pugging has gotten me .

Just need to be something other than a timer for difficulty. Fingers crossed

I cleared 5 Mask in SW and OG and wait for the Cloak to reach 15 now.

I will now run 4 mask everytime and then farm the mount maybe within the next 10 weeks (100k memos)

[Gyrotex]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers. This means, even before BfA released, they were probably already working on Horrific Visions and, by extension, Torghast. No matter how little you enjoy Horrific Visions, Torghast was already designed to be pretty much the same thing long before they had any chance to get any feedback.

Blizzard has completely gambled that people would enjoy Horrific Visions and doubled down on this idea in Torghast. This whole single run - "do your best" kind of content.

I can only speak for myself, and mention I do not enjoy Horrific Visions at this point in time. I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient. I was "forced" to respec to Enhancement, and even in this spec, I don't enjoy it. The reason is that it's just stressful and annoying with all the stuff I gotta move out of. It's like a solo version of Mythic+, a system I already despise.

Horrific Visions is a place designed for AoE melee/hunter DPS. It's a system that takes a long time to do, so it feels more like a chore than fun. It's also a system that many people already are getting bored by. This means people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months.

From what I understand, this Torghast system is the very core of the whole expansion. It's the Artifact Weapons of Shadowlands. It's the Island Expedition / Heart of Azeroth of Shadowlands. It's the place to get your transmogs, the place to get your mounts, the place to spend several hours every week.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?

Real proof of how different we all are...

I love Horrific Visions.

Could they be better? Of course. Do the rewards kinda suck and make me miss Mage Tower? Totally.

But they are hands down the best solo casual-friendly feature Blizzard has added to WoW in ages. If you can think of a more appealing one - let me know.

As Torghast is the central feature of Shadowlands, they HAVE TO invest more time and design effort into it, which alone raises the chances of it being "better".

And if it's better than Visions, I'm a happy camper, honestly.

[oplawlz]

As long as there's no timer element torghast will be fine.

[Mendzia]

Remember how Mage Tower was so fun?

Remember when Warfronts was supposed to be W3 in WoW? Awesome on paper dogshit in reality.

orghast is another MT. And not timed. Already makes it better in my eyes.

The times when you can blindly believe Blizzard are no longer here.
We will see.

Especially since Visions themselves are fun.

Opinions.

[Unlimited Power]

I'll reserve my judgment for the final product, but as far as roguelikes/roguelites go, I've never been a fan. I don't care to find how far I can go in what amounts to neverending randomly generated content. At least I can enjoy visions because they have a definitive ending. It's one of the same reasons I don't particularly care for mythic+ as a concept and much preferred challenge mode.

[Omedon]

Dude if torghast is basically visions without the timer, my friends and I will freakin LIVE there! I can't wait to see if that's the case!

[FlubberPuddy]

Opinions.

Lol if you don't like Visions then I can see why someone wouldn't like Torghast.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll reserve my judgment for the final product, but as far as roguelikes/roguelites go, I've never been a fan. I don't care to find how far I can go in what amounts to neverending randomly generated content. At least I can enjoy visions because they have a definitive ending. It's one of the same reasons I don't particularly care for mythic+ as a concept and much preferred challenge mode.

Ironic post considering your forum name

[Raone]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers. This means, even before BfA released, they were probably already working on Horrific Visions and, by extension, Torghast. No matter how little you enjoy Horrific Visions, Torghast was already designed to be pretty much the same thing long before they had any chance to get any feedback.

Blizzard has completely gambled that people would enjoy Horrific Visions and doubled down on this idea in Torghast. This whole single run - "do your best" kind of content.

I can only speak for myself, and mention I do not enjoy Horrific Visions at this point in time. I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient. I was "forced" to respec to Enhancement, and even in this spec, I don't enjoy it. The reason is that it's just stressful and annoying with all the stuff I gotta move out of. It's like a solo version of Mythic+, a system I already despise.

Horrific Visions is a place designed for AoE melee/hunter DPS. It's a system that takes a long time to do, so it feels more like a chore than fun. It's also a system that many people already are getting bored by. This means people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months.

From what I understand, this Torghast system is the very core of the whole expansion. It's the Artifact Weapons of Shadowlands. It's the Island Expedition / Heart of Azeroth of Shadowlands. It's the place to get your transmogs, the place to get your mounts, the place to spend several hours every week.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?

Torghast is not the core feature of Shadowlands, that is Covenants and the Soulbinds that are attached to them that are the Essence/Artifact system of Shadowlands. Torghast is only a feature for getting a Legendary, it's the way to create/customize Legendary items instead of just randomly getting them.

Visions is an extremely cost effective way to experiment different things for Torghast yes, however Torghast will be A LOT different. First it isn't timed meaning you can take it slow and do it with friends. It's completely procedural meaning each floor will be completely different. And last you unlock class bonuses the farther you get instead of a generic talent tree (so lets hope for a Chromie talent tree that gives healers perks!). Also a lot can change from now and beta, I mean look at the Path of the Titan system in Wrath, it was an end game talent progression system that turned into a new profession.

Torghast is more a procedural dungeon that never ends.

Also your a resto shaman but your mad that you have to do these as a group? Your spec is designed to heal other people ...

[msdos]

When Retail is the only game you play, of course you find the silver lining in everything. Visions are mediocre at best. Blizzard doesn't get passes anymore, not a company that thinks they're pioneering quality and has a plaque in the ground at HQ that says "commitment to quality".