Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Flower Milk]

Middle america also consider socialist = communist = must be destroyed at all costs even if they agree with the actual policies. Biden came out with leftist policies. Higher minimum wage, public option.

And yet 72% of Americans said they support a government run healthcare program but didn't vote for Biden overwhelmingly in those same numbers. People don't like the ACA, poll after poll during the Democratic primaries and now show people want a single payer policy like Medicare for All. The lesson Democrats need to learn is that people support progressive policies, and they are rejecting the moderate, centrist Democratic candidates and policies that they have been trying to push on us for decades. It's time to change and move to support progressive leadership and policies.

Unless you think what happened last night was fine, and Democrats need to make 0 changes. Is that really what you think? How much longer are centrist Democrats going to keep ignoring the polls and election results that continue saying that Americans overwhelmingly support progressive policies? yes, even middle America.

[Edge-]

Yes that's why I'm saying the centrists are wrong, Nancy Pelosi is not too progressive at all and centrists wanting a less progressive Speaker than freaking Nancy Pelosi while ignoring all of the progressive policies that were passed and how DSA backed candidates overwhelmingly won is fucking stupid. They really think "socialism" is to blame for centrist Democrat candidates losing while ignoring all of the other results in regards to progressive policy and candidates.

Progressive candidates winning more progressive areas is great, but isn't a path to flipping hardcore conservative areas.

There's a fundamental disconnect between progressive policies, and progressive politicians.

People LOVE progressive policies. $15 minimum wage? AWESOME! Legalizing/decriminalizing drugs? RAD! Expanded health care/insurance? SUPERB!

And this bears out when they can directly vote on ballot measures, as we've seen in Florida where they supported multiple progressive measures.

The disconnect is when it comes to politicians, and progressive politicians aren't getting any traction outside of those deep blue areas. See, again, Florida, which went very Republican overall despite supporting progressive ballot measures.

Because believe it or not, "socialism" is a big thing for a huge number of Americans for some stupid reason, and is absolutely a reason for many of the losses of moderate Democrats. Republicans have gotten that tag to stick with their base, and that's what matters.

[Mihalik]

Middle america also consider socialist = communist = must be destroyed at all costs even if they agree with the actual policies. Biden came out with leftist policies. Higher minimum wage, public option.

That's the conventional wisdom that frankly hasn't been challenged. Considering they solidly vote Republican, running a left wing populist is not really risking anything.

[Breccia]

Norms do not apply to Trump

Arrest warrants might.

[Edge-]

And yet 72% of Americans said they support a government run healthcare program but didn't vote for Biden overwhelmingly in those same numbers.

Because again, they like a progressive policy, just not a progressive (or even moderately liberal) candidate.

People don't like the ACA, poll after poll during the Democratic primaries and now show people want a single payer policy like Medicare for All.

https://www.kff.org/health-reform/po...supreme-court/

Actually, they do like the ACA. It enjoys majority support.

And while people like M4A as an "idea", support for every practical proposal has cratered compared to support for the concept. Because when you start putting dollar rags on it and getting into details, people start getting anxious.

The lesson Democrats need to learn is that people support progressive policies, and they are rejecting the moderate, centrist Democratic candidates and policies that they have been trying to push on us for decades. It's time to change and move to support progressive leadership and policies.

No, it's that they need to figure out a way to bridge the gap between support for progressive policies and support for progressive candidates. It's a long standing issue, and it bears out historically as Democratic policies and legislation more often enjoy popular support than anything from the Republicans, including their unpopular tax cut recently.

Unless you think what happened last night was fine, and Democrats need to make 0 changes. Is that really what you think?

They need to make changes, but running hard left across the board may not be that change.

[Belize]

Assuming margins for MIV in GA stay the same, Biden will win the states by about 4K votes.

Whoof.

- - - Updated - - -

God I can see it now.

2024: Ocasio-Cortez (who would be 35 in December of 24) vs Trump Jr.

Hopefully I can watch from abroad . . . in maybe Antarctica.

Yeah, no, if this happens I'm quitting my cozy well paying job, and signing up with one of the "Teach English Abroad" group.

[Kaleredar]

My perspective is yes it would be worse but what is the path forward If the country is this radicalised

That’s why you have to take it one step at a time.

There are people in here prognosticating doom and gloom about what the 2024 election will look like after prognosticating how they think the senate races are going to go in 2022 based on how they think this election is going to turn out.

Take a friggin step back, and deal with the situation at hand.

If Biden wins, that is a victory, no matter how slight. Then you plan your actions from there.

[kaelleria]

Assuming margins for MIV in GA stay the same, Biden will win the states by about 4K votes.

Whoof.

There are some votes from Savannah that may offset it... It will be very close.

[thilicen]

Arizona and Michigan looking really good atm, Nevada is some scary shit though.

[Kallisto]

That's the conventional wisdom that frankly hasn't been challenged. Considering they solidly vote Republican, running a left wing populist is not really risking anything.

Running a populist should never be done. Populism is evil and should be shunned no matter what. No populism, no appeal to emotion 100% rational non emotive person needs to be the person to run.

[Flower Milk]

Progressive candidates winning more progressive areas is great, but isn't a path to flipping hardcore conservative areas.

There's a fundamental disconnect between progressive policies, and progressive politicians.

People LOVE progressive policies. $15 minimum wage? AWESOME! Legalizing/decriminalizing drugs? RAD! Expanded health care/insurance? SUPERB!

And this bears out when they can directly vote on ballot measures, as we've seen in Florida where they supported multiple progressive measures.

The disconnect is when it comes to politicians, and progressive politicians aren't getting any traction outside of those deep blue areas. See, again, Florida, which went very Republican overall despite supporting progressive ballot measures.

Because believe it or not, "socialism" is a big thing for a huge number of Americans for some stupid reason, and is absolutely a reason for many of the losses of moderate Democrats. Republicans have gotten that tag to stick with their base, and that's what matters.

Florida went to Donald Trump, and they just voted to raise the minimum wage to $15. How do you explain that? Maybe it's that people are rejecting decades of neoliberal austerity politics (like Joe Biden) in favor of progressive policies.

I mean seriously, do you really think in 2024 that Democrats should again run a moderate centrist candidate after looking at how last night went doing the same thing, and how it went in 2016? Or do you think maybe, just maybe, they should take a risk and try out a progressive candidate instead? If a progressive candidate does worse, fine, but after seeing last night, it's worth the risk.

[Logwyn]

God I can see it now.

2024: Ocasio-Cortez (who would be 35 in December of 24) vs Trump Jr.

Hopefully I can watch from abroad . . . in maybe Antarctica.

Chances are her district will be re-districted due to the 2020 census and either she will have to run against another Democrat that will beat her or she'll get the idea she should run for something higher like Senate or Governor then get beat.

[Milchshake]

I wonder how much of it is actually fear of that and how much of that is the misinformation, arguably it is part of it but there's so much misinformation about what Trump is and did and what Biden isn't and did, that it feels like that is the root issue instead of something else.

How to deal with all of this as a nation and on level of policy without going into full censorship on social media and older media.

It's an institutional part of American culture.

Like how Europeans associate all kinds of bad things to Gypsies. Americans do that to socialists and communists.

So once Europe solves it's bias against the Roma. We might be able to use that as a template for Socialism over here.

[thilicen]

Trump ahead 430 000 in Pennsylvania, wasn't he at like 700 000 some hours back?

[kaelleria]

Trump ahead 430 000 in Pennsylvania, wasn't he at like 700 000 some hours back?

Yeah, with over a million absentees left. 50-150k win for Biden/

[Zeth Hawkins]

Anyone know what's going on with Antrim county in Michigan?

[Felya]

And yet 72% of Americans said they support a government run healthcare program but didn't vote for Biden overwhelmingly in those same numbers.

Because you misrepresent what it means...

People don't like the ACA, poll after poll during the Democratic primaries and now show people want a single payer policy like Medicare for All.

No, people love ACA, they hate ObamaCare. That’s what you are ignoring.

The lesson Democrats need to learn is that people support progressive policies, and they are rejecting the moderate, centrist Democratic candidates and policies that they have been trying to push on us for decades. It's time to change and move to support progressive leadership and policies.

They obviously do not... the only way government ran healthcare is supporter, is when it’s pushed by a conservative. Think about it...

Unless you think what happened last night was fine, and Democrats need to make 0 changes. Is that really what you think? How much longer are centrist Democrats going to keep ignoring the polls and election results that continue saying that Americans overwhelmingly support progressive policies? yes, even middle America.

They need to change... but, not lean into republican dogma. It’s like running Hillary again...

[Edge-]

Florida went to Donald Trump, and they just voted to raise the minimum wage to $15. How do you explain that? Maybe it's that people are rejecting decades of neoliberal austerity politics (like Joe Biden) in favor of progressive policies.

I literally just did. People like progressive policies. They don't like progressive candidates, or even Democrats. And if you look historically, this bears out in support for both policy proposals and legislation.

It has nothing to do with a rejection of "neoliberal austerity", and Joe Biden, and Hillary Clinton before him (she went back and forth between $12 and $15), and Democrats have supported the $15 minimum wage so it's hardly a thing Democrats haven't campaigned on. FL just isn't a single issue state, no state really is.

I mean seriously, do you really think in 2024 that Democrats should again run a moderate centrist candidate after looking at how last night went doing the same thing, and how it went in 2016?

If Biden loses, no. If Biden wins, it depends on how the next 4 years go.

Again, I'd prefer a more progressive candidate, personally. But believe it or not, this is still largely a pretty moderate/conservative country overall, even as many Americans love and support some progressive policies.

[Felya]

Florida went to Donald Trump, and they just voted to raise the minimum wage to $15.

They support progressive policy, when they are not pushed by progressives. Look in the mirror...

[For_The_Horde]

Anyone know what's going on with Antrim county in Michigan?

It flipped blue rather unexpectedly it looks like, so they wiped it off the board while its under investigation.