1. #34481
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    you didn't vote for Biden. you played 0 role in getting him in the white house. The dem's should work with the left that voted for them, yes. But you making the argument for them, hurts the cause, cause no one wants to work with someone as selfish as you.
    Cool, don't listen to me then, I don't care. Work with the left that helped him get elected like AOC, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, etc. Work with all the grassroots activist groups that registered voters and door knocked for Biden. By all means, please do. I would love that.

  2. #34482
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I am poor enough to have been on the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare (ACA), and let me tell you it fucking sucks. Medicare for All would not only be better and include dental and vision, but it would also cover more of the middle class.

    These are the people I'm fighting for:

    https://twitter.com/invisiblepeople/...42573436899329
    What is better, half those people getting coverage or none?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  3. #34483
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I am poor enough to have been on the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare (ACA), and let me tell you it fucking sucks. Medicare for All would not only be better and include dental and vision, but it would also cover more of the middle class.

    These are the people I'm fighting for:

    https://twitter.com/invisiblepeople/...42573436899329
    As someone who is currently on medicaid, and been on medicaid for much longer than ACA, let me tell you without it i'd be dead. would I prefer medicare for all, yes, but anyone who shit talks aca is a terrible human. seriously shame on you.

  4. #34484
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGoldSharpie View Post
    Then you're functionally useless. Have fun being an outside bomb thrower. We have another ten year wait to make any progress at this point thanks to this election. The DNC is strategically useless and you all want to play revolutionary on the outside and get your asses handed to you in presidential primaries.
    I already know I'm functionally useless, I'm on the autism spectrum and I'm a high school dropout that can't work. I don't want to play revolutionary, I just want healthcare. That's it. I would like to contribute to society, but it's difficult when I need help being able to contribute to society like having healthcare as a start. I also do not qualify for disability, as so many others on the autism spectrum will tell you they don't, either. The social safety nets in America are awful and do nothing but push people to the wayside who can contribute to society if you just offer them a little help. There is a reason adults on the autism spectrum have something like a 90% suicide rate in America.

  5. #34485
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I am poor enough to have been on the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare (ACA), and let me tell you it fucking sucks. Medicare for All would not only be better and include dental and vision, but it would also cover more of the middle class.

    These are the people I'm fighting for:

    https://twitter.com/invisiblepeople/...42573436899329
    You're never getting M4A. Sorry. If you find a time machine and go 30 years in the future you might have something like that in the US, but even in places like Canada and the UK, their systems literally took decades to implement. But we're not Canada or the UK and are living in a much more divisive political era.

    You do realize the Medicaid expansion was kneecapped by republicans right? The ACA obviously needs improvement and no one denies this.

    There's a huge difference between a plan that's being portrayed as poison by completely changing our healthcare system and vastly improving what we have. One is feasible, the other is a pipedream.

  6. #34486
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What is better, half those people getting coverage or none?
    How about we improve upon it and give everyone coverage like the rest of the modern world. This isn't a debate, it's about whether we are fine accepting that even under the ACA 68,000 Americans die every year simply because they can't afford healthcare. Are you okay with accepting that?

  7. #34487
    The longer this is going on, the more I believe that Trump will be serving his second term. The Demonrats and the MSM are desperate to get this over and done with.. but the corruption is being un-earthed, evidence is piling up. Pompeo's body language was not hard to read, he knows they have this in the bag.

    Oh this will be a glorious end to a dismal year.

    Get mad

    (im ready for my monthly infraction, be gentle).
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-11-12 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Minor Trolling

  8. #34488
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Does anyone want to chime in on why it wouldn't be a good idea?
    Yes.

    Imagine you're a typical Democrat. Your choices would be Biden, Jorgensen, Trump.

    Imagine you're a typical Republican. You leave your party because Trump is a giant fuckwad. Your choices would be Biden, Jorgensen, Trump.

    Imagine you're a member of Trump's cult. Your choices would be Trump, Jogensen, Biden.

    If there's a tie, Jorgensen wins. Not because of deserving anything (1% pop vote) but because the partisan divide between rational and irrational is so wide.

    Now, could we ramp up to a better shot at this? Absolutely. Redo the problem with Biden, Sanders, Trump, Kasich, and Jorgensen. Much better situation.

  9. #34489
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    You're never getting M4A. Sorry. If you find a time machine and go 30 years in the future you might have something like that in the US, but even in places like Canada and the UK, their systems literally took decades to implement. But we're not Canada or the UK and are living in a much more divisive political era.

    You do realize the Medicaid expansion was kneecapped by republicans right? The ACA obviously needs improvement and no one denies this.

    There's a huge difference between a plan that's being portrayed as poison by completely changing our healthcare system and vastly improving what we have. One is feasible, the other is a pipedream.
    If you think it's a "pipedream" then you have to accept that in America we also needlessly let 68,000 Americans die every year because they can't afford healthcare. Do you think that is acceptable to you? How many years and how many thousands of Americans dying because they're too poor do you think we should put up with until it is no longer considered a "pipedream"?

  10. #34490
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyuna View Post
    The longer this is going on, the more I believe that Trump will be serving his second term. The Demonrats and the MSM are desperate to get this over and done with.. but the corruption is being un-earthed, evidence is piling up. Pompeo's body language was not hard to read, he knows they have this in the bag.

    Oh this will be a glorious end to a dismal year.

    Get mad

    (im ready for my monthly infraction, be gentle).
    FUCKING LOL. There is NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE. Pompeo is fucking retarded and he knows he is out January 20th. I thought this was going to be a Trump landslide?

  11. #34491
    The Lightbringer GreenGoldSharpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    I already know I'm functionally useless, I'm on the autism spectrum and I'm a high school dropout that can't work. I don't want to play revolutionary, I just want healthcare. That's it. I would like to contribute to society, but it's difficult when I need help being able to contribute to society like having healthcare as a start. I also do not qualify for disability, as so many others on the autism spectrum will tell you they don't, either. The social safety nets in America are awful and do nothing but push people to the wayside who can contribute to society if you just offer them a little help. There is a reason adults on the autism spectrum have something like a 90% suicide rate in America.
    Which, while i sympathize, is irrelevant to what I said. Political reality says M4A is dead for at least a decade. Republican states are about to refresh their gerrymanders, and after a Biden win, crack down on voting rights. There won't be any rebalance of the courts or the Senate until after 2030 so it's a moot point even attempting to suggest there is a legitimate route to passage.

    What I said earlier remains true. Democrats -- and yes, you need the machinery of a major party -- need to compete with Republicans. Better start building that infrastructure now instead of aspirational campaigning and throwing money at candidates who, realistically, can't win. Hence my criticism of both sides.

  12. #34492
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    As someone who is currently on medicaid, and been on medicaid for much longer than ACA, let me tell you without it i'd be dead. would I prefer medicare for all, yes, but anyone who shit talks aca is a terrible human. seriously shame on you.
    ACA is ass and made to appease conservatives in both parties who hold insurance companies over people. Premiums still are out the ass for a lot of people and 'affordable' are barely adequate. Anyone who does not want to transition is a "bad person".

  13. #34493
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGoldSharpie View Post
    Which, while i sympathize, is irrelevant to what I said. Political reality says M4A is dead for at least a decade. Republican states are about to refresh their gerrymanders, and after a Biden win, crack down on voting rights. There won't be any rebalance of the courts or the Senate until after 2030 so it's a moot point even attempting to suggest there is a legitimate route to passage.

    What I said earlier remains true. Democrats -- and yes, you need the machinery of a major party -- need to compete with Republicans. Better start building that infrastructure now instead of aspirational campaigning and throwing money at candidates who, realistically, can't win. Hence my criticism of both sides.
    Then I am dead, because I cannot survive that long without healthcare. And so are thousands of other Americans every year. If Democrats can't even fight for me or those Americans to just be able to LIVE by supporting an improvement like Medicare for All, how are they going to convince those people to fight for them? How can we trust them?

  14. #34494
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenGoldSharpie View Post
    Which, while i sympathize, is irrelevant to what I said. Political reality says M4A is dead for at least a decade. Republican states are about to refresh their gerrymanders, and after a Biden win, crack down on voting rights. There won't be any rebalance of the courts or the Senate until after 2030 so it's a moot point even attempting to suggest there is a legitimate route to passage.

    What I said earlier remains true. Democrats -- and yes, you need the machinery of a major party -- need to compete with Republicans. Better start building that infrastructure now instead of aspirational campaigning and throwing money at candidates who, realistically, can't win. Hence my criticism of both sides.
    Aka Democrats are useless.

  15. #34495
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    If you think it's a "pipedream" then you have to accept that in America we also needlessly let 68,000 Americans die every year because they can't afford healthcare. Do you think that is acceptable to you? How many years and how many thousands of Americans dying because they're too poor do you think we should put up with until it is no longer considered a "pipedream"?
    This is the type of thinking that alienates people.

    you DOn'T sUPPoRt meDIcaRe fOr AlL. do yOU wAnT peOplE tO die!!1onE

    This is why the progressive wing of the party is doomed to fail. Bad faith, divisive arguments.

  16. #34496
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Question for everyone here:

    I, like many other people recently, have been reading up on RCV (ranked choice voting), and it certainly seems like a good idea.

    Does anyone want to chime in on why it wouldn't be a good idea?

    I mean, it would certainly allow people to feel safer voting for more progressive candidates, if that's what they want, while still ranking more moderate Democrats higher than any conservative as a backup.
    it would be an improvment but it dosnt fix alot of the fundemental problems in the US system.

    for a start you would need wider reforming just to have rank first actualy mean anything, under the electoral colledge system most states work on a winner takes all basis, thus ranking your preferances is meaningless when the most popular gets 100% of the states actual votes in the end.

    also it still elves america with a retarded two party system, and a president that is grossly over powered compared to modern democracy's.

  17. #34497
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Yes.

    Imagine you're a typical Democrat. Your choices would be Biden, Jorgensen, Trump.

    Imagine you're a typical Republican. You leave your party because Trump is a giant fuckwad. Your choices would be Biden, Jorgensen, Trump.

    Imagine you're a member of Trump's cult. Your choices would be Trump, Jogensen, Biden.

    If there's a tie, Jorgensen wins. Not because of deserving anything (1% pop vote) but because the partisan divide between rational and irrational is so wide.

    Now, could we ramp up to a better shot at this? Absolutely. Redo the problem with Biden, Sanders, Trump, Kasich, and Jorgensen. Much better situation.
    But that's not the way RCV works. The candidate with the fewest rank 1 choices is eliminated before moving to the next iteration. Jorgensen would never win in that scenario, because she would never ever be highest percentage rank 1 vote. You literally could not eliminate Biden or Trump before eliminating Jorgensen.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #34498
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    This is the type of thinking that alienates people.

    you DOn'T sUPPoRt meDIcaRe fOr AlL. do yOU wAnT peOplE tO die!!1onE

    This is why the progressive wing of the party is doomed to fail. Bad faith, divisive arguments.
    i can make a right wing argument for free healthcare if you want me to.

  19. #34499
    The Lightbringer GreenGoldSharpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Then I am dead, because I cannot survive that long without healthcare. And so are thousands of other Americans every year. If Democrats can't even fight for me or those Americans to just be able to LIVE by supporting an improvement like Medicare for All, how are they going to convince those people to fight for them? How can we trust them?
    And how, pray tell, do we "fight for you"? We don't have a path to pass what you want.

  20. #34500
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyuna View Post
    The longer this is going on, the more I believe that Trump will be serving his second term. The Demonrats and the MSM are desperate to get this over and done with.. but the corruption is being un-earthed, evidence is piling up. Pompeo's body language was not hard to read, he knows they have this in the bag.

    Oh this will be a glorious end to a dismal year.

    Get mad

    (im ready for my monthly infraction, be gentle).
    Great, let's see that evidence!!!

    I'll assume any failure to do so will just be your admission of shilling for white supremacists like Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

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